Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Beltsbear]

I think it was known to people who took apart the AC to DC inverter in the Model 3, but not relevant until recently when people are speculating about V2G.

Electrek never said it was new in the article, and the date in the corner of the schematic is very blurry but these are the parts that are definitely legible: "Date: Sunday August 2X 20YY". We know YY cannot be 20 because August hasn't happened this year yet. It could be as late as August 2019, but to me the X looked like a 0, a 5, a 6 or an 8, and August 26 2018 happened to fall on a Sunday during the time period when this engineer worked for Ford, so that made the most sense.

Poor Jim Chanos is losing it

Diogenes on Twitter

What so many of these people don't understand. This is not about buying power at your 'night rate' (6 cents) and selling it at your 'day rate' (15 cents) . Sure, that is possible, and there is some money to be made there. This is about Tesla buying power at the spot rate of 2 cents a kwh and selling it at 40 cents. This is about absorbing free wind power (or even paid to take it) and selling it during the day. This is about providing frequency control services at $50,000 a shot. 3000 cars can give a 10 megawatt service. With autobidder Tesla is going to have a new income stream. This is before them adding their own solar and megapacks.

 

[LJS22]

Tulsa is the best. Can we at least give them a MegaFactory?

Mike Collier on Twitter

View attachment 543148

They can build CyberQuads!

 

[MC3OZ]

FSD is not going to be worth $100,000 if anyone else at all can do it.


What so many of these people don't understand. This is not about buying power at your 'night rate' (6 cents) and selling it at your 'day rate' (15 cents) . Sure, that is possible, and there is some money to be made there. This is about Tesla buying power at the spot rate of 2 cents a kwh and selling it at 40 cents. This is about absorbing free wind power (or even paid to take it) and selling it during the day. This is about providing frequency control services at $50,000 a shot. 3000 cars can give a 10 megawatt service. With autobidder Tesla is going to have a new income stream. This is before them adding their own solar and megapacks.

While I agree with most of your comment, the real value of FSD is what it can earn each day in fares.

Tesla has a low fleet cost and can certainly live with $1 per mile...

Say a competitor offers 50 cents per mile, Tesla can live with that....

As the technology matures competition drives the price down, input costs then matter:-

• Fleet costs
• Operation costs (software, billing etc)
• Electricity costs
• insurance
• Tires
• Cleaning.(IMO cars are cleaned very well at least once per day)

Tires and Cleaning are the only areas Tesla doesn't have covered.

Tires is next on my wish list, Tesla may be able to improve them...

They may eventually have a cleaning solution... or will remake the car interiors...

The quick way is having removable interior covers that can be washed... there is a problem with air bags .....

Or Tesla needs to develop some sort of really good robotic cleaning system...

IMO car cleaning is big for Robo-taxis, not a luxury or nice to have, it is essential.

 

[Baumisch]

Fredtrek article implying that onboard charger on Model 3/Y is already bidirectional and hence V2G ready. Of course the batteries are not ideal for that application, but it would still make for one heck of an OTA update.

Tesla quietly adds bidirectional charging capability for game-changing new features - Electrek

So excited to see where all this V2G/autobidder stuff goes!

Anyone thing we need a way to display battery health?
Apple majured to doing this on iPhones, you get a % indicator of battery health - I wish that comes to Tesla's as well.
On my 2013-P85+ I use 100%-TR as this indicator, for better or worse.

 

[Dreadnought]

What so many of these people don't understand. This is not about buying power at your 'night rate' (6 cents) and selling it at your 'day rate' (15 cents) . Sure, that is possible, and there is some money to be made there. This is about Tesla buying power at the spot rate of 2 cents a kwh and selling it at 40 cents. This is about absorbing free wind power (or even paid to take it) and selling it during the day. This is about providing frequency control services at $50,000 a shot. 3000 cars can give a 10 megawatt service. With autobidder Tesla is going to have a new income stream. This is before them adding their own solar and megapacks.

You nailed it. And while I wouldn't participate in a V2G program with my not-a-million-mile battery, there is still money to be made if Tesla buys electricity at negative prices and charges connected vehicles (within user-defined constraints). As car owner, I get supercharger credits; there is no need for metering and cash to change hands.

 

[FrANce]

VAT Tax exemption is great for cars bought by private persons. About 2/3 of all new vehicles are bought by businesses.

Neuzulassungen von Pkw in Deutschland - Haltergruppen 2019 | Statista

This is further skewed with the more expensive cars. Businesses do not pay VAT (it is refunded to them in full).

So this - if it comes to fruition - is a two edged sword.

This is not the case in France, businesses can’t claim VAT back on company cars (same rule applies to hotels, airfares etc). So it’s a huge deal for French businesses.

 

[JBRR]

Tesla Starts Delivery of China-Built Longer-Range Model 3s Weds

A company representative said in a message sent via WeChat.

LiveSquawk on Twitter

 

[NicoV]

This is not the case in France, businesses can’t claim VAT back on company cars (same rule applies to hotels, airfares etc). So it’s a huge deal for French businesses.

Similar in Belgium, only half the VAT can be claimed back on a car purchase by a company. The same rule also applies to all other costs related to a car.

 

[LN1_Casey]

German market is 742(E), which is about ~$801. Very low volume of 267 shares so far.

 

[Tslynk67]

VAT Tax exemption is great for cars bought by private persons. About 2/3 of all new vehicles are bought by businesses.

Neuzulassungen von Pkw in Deutschland - Haltergruppen 2019 | Statista

This is further skewed with the more expensive cars. Businesses do not pay VAT (it is refunded to them in full).

So this - if it comes to fruition - is a two edged sword.

In Belgium you can only claim a maximum of 50% of the sales tax back against cars - irrelevant of type. So this would also be a huge boost here for Tesla.

 

[Tslynk67]

How did you find this information? The Nürburgring Supercharger is not on the tesla.com/findus ?

supercharge.info

 

[Artful Dodger]

German market is 742(E), which is about ~$801. Very low volume of 267 shares so far.

No, 742.90 Eur in USD is about $813.01 (live exchange rate calc via Google)

But it doesn't matter now because NASDAQ Pre-market opens in NYC at 04:00 hrs ET: (data delayed 15 min)

May 20, 4:35 a.m. EDT
Pre-market 815.95 +7.94 (0.98%)​

Then about 05:30-45ish,

Tesla (TSLA) Real-Time Stock Quote - NASDAQ.com


Frankfurt opens a couple hrs earlier; Tesla trades there under the symbol FRA:TL0

Cheers!

 

[LN1_Casey]

No, 742.90 Eur in USD is about $813.01 (live exchange rate calc via Google)

But it doesn't matter now because NASDAQ Pre-market opens in NYC at 04:00 hrs ET:

May 20, 4:35 a.m. EDT
Pre-market 815.95 +7.94 (0.98%)​

Frankfurt opens a couple hrs earlier; Tesla trades there under the symbol FRA:TL0

Cheers!

Ah, good catch. Euro to Dollar exchange has been at 1.08 for a little while now, and I forgot to validate that this morning before posting.

 

[jerry33]

Tires is next on my wish list, Tesla may be able to improve them...

Seems unlikely. While it's true that the first tier tire manufacturers have tire models designed to be released when the competition releases theirs (no tire manufacturer shoots all the bullets they have at once), tires and their manufacturing is very complex. Tires are also a high liability item. Tesla would be better off to improve suspension design to get the most life out of the tires.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Seems unlikely. While it's true that the first tier tire manufacturers have tire models designed to be released when the competition releases theirs (no tire manufacturer shoots all the bullets they have at once), tires and their manufacturing is very complex. Tires are also a high liability item. Tesla would be better off to improve suspension design to get the most life out of the tires.

Tesla is almost certainly working with SpaceX on a airless tire design for use on the Moon and Mars with Cybertruck.

I suspect there will be an 'on-world' market for those 'off-world' tires too, if just for off-road. Eventually, they'll need a strong, light, maintenance-free wheel/tire combo for space exploration. And what better place to test it than the desert SW?

Cheers!

 

[jerry33]

Tesla is almost certainly working with SpaceX on a airless tire design for use on the Moon and Mars with Cybertruck.

I suspect there will be an 'on-world' market for those 'off-world' tires too, if just for novelty. Eventually, they'll need a strong, light, maintenance-free wheel/tire combo for space exploration. And what better place to test it than the desert SW?

View attachment 543261

Cheers!

Airless tires (as shown in the picture) have been worked on since the 1980s. They have their place, but the state of the art is that rolling resistance is not good. There are still heat issues as well. Right now their best application is backhoes where heat and rolling resistance don't matter.

 

[Silentk]

This was reported here several hours ago.

The added tweet with examples of new Irish prices seems to show that they have a 27-28% VAT. They really have a 23% VAT. I guess percentages are hard.

A $48.000 car would be $39.000 not $37.000
A $59.500 car would be $48.400 not $46.500
A $67.100 car would be $54.600 not $52.700

Thanks. They could be calculating the additional tax paid on cars in Ireland called VRT, which would be 14% of total cost including VAT (minus a 5,000 allowance for electric cars until 2021). I don’t know if that would also be waived together with the VAT.


Calculating Vehicle Registration Tax

 

[Khamul]

Re: the VAT:

It'll have immense importance in Denmark; we have exorbitant sales taxes on cars, and even though EVs are only at 20% (it's so bad here that it actually is only, without " "), it's set to increase to 65% next year, 90% in 2022 and finally 100% in 2023. Sales tax used to be 120% of the cars value...

It's also why I don't have a car.

 

[hobbes]

I think it was known to people who took apart the AC to DC inverter in the Model 3, but not relevant until recently when people are speculating about V2G.

Electrek never said it was new in the article, and the date in the corner of the schematic is very blurry but these are the parts that are definitely legible: "Date: Sunday August 2X 20YY". We know YY cannot be 20 because August hasn't happened this year yet. It could be as late as August 2019, but to me the X looked like a 0, a 5, a 6 or an 8, and August 26 2018 happened to fall on a Sunday during the time period when this engineer worked for Ford, so that made the most sense.

Did not change anything in this pic but zoom in - to me there is no doubt it is Aug 26, 2018.

Source:
Tesla quietly adds bidirectional charging capability for game-changing new features - Electrek

 

[j6Lpi429@3j]

Re: the VAT:

It'll have immense importance in Denmark; we have exorbitant sales taxes on cars, and even though EVs are only at 20% (it's so bad here that it actually is only, without " "), it's set to increase to 65% next year, 90% in 2022 and finally 100% in 2023. Sales tax used to be 120% of the cars value...

It's also why I don't have a car.

Hold on... WHAT? Cars are doubled in price due to tax in 2023? Am i reading that right? Thats INSANE.
I bet air travel isnt being taxed at 100% too right?