Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Mo City]

Great thinking, when would they accept TSLA as payment?
Asking for a friend...

Friends don't let friends buy Teslas with TSLA.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Your a drug dealer.

We are too low. I have no problem also yelling that we're too high. Have done it many times in the past.

 

[asburgers]

Bottomline is they gave 270Kw charging option without talking about Battery degradation, and tried to boast that they were the best technology out there.
Without Tesla V3 Superchargers, they would have been marketing themselves as the best with Charging Tech, and surpassing Tesla. (i.e migrating to EV for incumbents was so easy) So yes, I think they forgot to put clarifications in fine print

Or Porsche could use their advanced engineers to build functionality to throttle the charge rate right on the screen.

 

[colettimj]

They gave Taycan owners the option of lowering charging speed from 270kW to 200kW.

If you care more about speed keep it at 270kW.

You care more about long term battery health then lower it to 200kW.

If you absolutely want to destroy the battery, can you hit 350 kW or has Porsche backed away from that claim?

I can't find an newer update than this (undated?) Porsche press release on the Taycan.

"In the pilot cities of Shanghai, Beijing, Tokyo, Osaka, Nagoya and London, Porsche Charging offers customers the opportunity to charge their vehicles at selected locations at four of their own high-power charging points (with up to 350 kW)."

"As part of the joint venture Ionity – which also involves Audi, BMW, Daimler and Ford – Porsche will build around 400 high-power charging parks, with a capacity of up to 350 kW per charging point, across Europe by the end of 2020."

"In North America, the VW Group initiative, Electrify America, has offered charging with up to 350 kW at 300 highway stations since this year."

 

[Krugerrand]

@StealthP3D seems to be correct per IRS guidance.

Digital Assets | Internal Revenue Service

You may have to report transactions involving digital assets such as cryptocurrency and NFTs on your tax return.

www.irs.gov

There is also general crypto FAQ linked to that page.

Does it make US tax reporting a pain? Yes. Can someone try to cheat the system? As always. Should you? No.

Thank you for that. It reminded me that this year my tax guy specifically asked me if I owned any Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency. So, it seems the IRS has indeed already considered the scenario.

 

[UkNorthampton]

Tl;dr; Grow as fast as reasonably possible by folding profit back in. Eventually that spending will decrease as a percentage of the company and they can continue to reduce prices while rewarding investors.

Long, parenthetical, but possibly interesting at the end:

Great post, and I agree with it except the bolded section, specifically "never". Elon has Tweeted about Tesla paying dividends in the far future when profit > useful spending. At some point, the aggregated growth curves must taper off to maintenance/ population growth level, while Tesla itself gets larger. Expansion spending becomes less of the operating profit and a minor shift in vehicle price can produce billions in surplus profit without greatly impacting purchasability.

There is also his statement from a leaked e-mail:
"When looking at our actual profitability, it's very low at about 1% for the past year. Investors are giving us a lot of credit for future profits, but if, at any point, they conclude that's not going to happen, our stock will immediately get crushed like a soufflé under a sledge hammer!"

Current profits matter to show the company is viable (though cash flow positive does too vs GAAP) and aid cash raises, but future profits are a carrot that allow for dividends as a payback to investors for their investment (along with stock appreciation (also tied to future success) and internal motivations).
Of course, the stock price != true value of a company, and if there is sufficient cash on hand, SP is somewhat removed from its ability to operate, so even the crushed egg could advance the renewable transition, but it's hard on the employees (stock option compensation) and investors, both of which Elon is cognizant of.

In the near term, non-monetary dividends are an interesting thought. What about X days-miles-hours-minutes of FSD subscription per share as a dividend? Or Y miles of Tesla Network usage? Like Eve Online, one could even theoretically trade these to others for cash (if permitted). Also makes shorting (naked or or otherwise) more difficult (which is an interesting factor in regards to a dividend trading market) .

Bold bit above, I'm also a fan of non-monetary dividends preferably that don't incur a tax liability until redemption (affects others, not me) - especially for short burning purposes (they can't magic up the dividends).

TeslaCoin / XCoin etc could be swapped (taxable at redemption?) for FSD, factory tours (surely no taxable value), supercharging, advanced/fun driving lessons/experiences. I'm sure there's many options that screw shorts without tax obligations (make sure it works in Germany & other EU countries as I remember chat about it being a pain).

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Lot of monies and potentially work for GF Buffalo to not participate at all? I don't think making SC's are part of any bottlenecks are they? (No battery dependencies?)
Add solar roof's to each of the charging stations and you would even be increasing Solar panel volumes.
If Batteries are added to mix, then in future more potential for being part of any micro-grid and being part of Autobidder eco-system?

Chargers don't require much innovation or boldness, so I don't see Elon caring. If someone else can do it just as quickly, let them do it. GF Buffalo will have more than enough work on their hands as we move rapidly to decentralize the entire global energy system over the next 15 years.

Look at Texas. The first megapack farm with autobidder is going online soon, it won't be the last. People are going to be buying solar roofs like crazy and utilities will be transitioning faster than Tesla will be able to keep up. I hear Tesla is also now making their own residential solar inverters. That alone could be a massive business line for Buffalo.

 

[Krugerrand]

Crypto, FSD technical capabilities, Battery Day tech rollout. Would love to be part of these conversations if they were in a place they could be followed without wading through piles of other crap.

Inching out of a pandemic is a great time to think about the downside of having a one-thread discussion forum. A one-thread forum is a chat room, discussion forums are better!

I ask nicely (this time) to quit. You’re like a broken record on this point. It’s not going to change. Deal already.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

Bottomline is they gave 270Kw charging option without talking about Battery degradation, and tried to boast that they were the best technology out there.
Without Tesla V3 Superchargers, they would have been marketing themselves as the best with Charging Tech, and surpassing Tesla. (i.e migrating to EV for incumbents was so easy) So yes, I think they forgot to put clarifications in fine print

I blame the press for parroting their 350kW charge capabilities without bother to.....ya know.....check if they have a battery that can handle that level of charge. Ridiculous.

 

[elasalle]

Thank you for that. It reminded me that this year my tax guy specifically asked me if I owned any Bitcoin or other cryptocurrency. So, it seems the IRS has indeed already considered the scenario.

My Tax guy saw the Tesla outside and assumed all the extra tax (a lot for me) was because of Tesla Stonks
Short term cap gains are painful having to pay at 33%. I had to sell/adjust a small portion to manage my calls, CC's, verticals as Tesla ran full steam ahead (+& payoff one of my mortgages, so worth it in end -- wifey compliance )
After Jun 21, I am all in long term cap gains bracket for any selling/balancing I need to do.

 

[Chenkers]

(News from while back was that VW charging stations were Tesla SC in camo gear )

Not superchargers. I believe what you're referring to is Electrify Amercia installing Tesla PowerPacks at charging sites.
Tesla Powerpacks Are Being Used by Volkswagen

 

[TheTalkingMule]

I ask nicely (this time) to quit. You’re like a broken record on this point. It’s not going to change. Deal already.

It's like once every two weeks. Too much? Pardon me for valuing the knowledge base potential of TMC discourse!

I'm seeing a lot of r/wsb mimicking going on and think it's a shame, that's all. This used to be a good hub for market wisdom.

Will give it a rest until the 4th of July.

 

[SunCatcher]

Dangerously close to a poem there...cat.

It may be art, but it's not poetry. In fact, I'd say it's close to being a NFT. I'd buy that, coming from Krugerrand! I'll offer 1/100,000 of a BTC, even though I have nothing to back that up.

 

[MTL_HABS1909]

So I guess we’re just not going to talk about the near vertical drop once again at open. Getting real tired of always going down. Deliveries better be good.

 

[TheTalkingMule]

In for one more Friday $700c @ $2.75

Now lets hope that's the bottom and we can offload these things!

 

[Krugerrand]

I blame the press for parroting their 350kW charge capabilities without bother to.....ya know.....check if they have a battery that can handle that level of charge. Ridiculous.

Funny, I blame Porsche since they actually advertised it to the world.

 

[lafrisbee]

I don't buy it.

High speed charging has two functions: 1) get the customer back on the road ASAP so they can continue on their trip; and 2) open the charging stall as quickly as possible so another customer can charge and then continue on their trip as quickly as possible. Public fast charging is all about throughput.

I would be upset if people went to a Supercharger and knocked the charge rate down to 60kW so they could walk over to the nearby diner and have a leisurely lunch. People shouldn't be allowed to adjust charge rate at public fast chargers any more than they can adjust flow rate at a gas pump. Pump your gas and get moving, charge your car at the fastest rate the battery management system allows and get moving.

Wouldn't surprise me in the least to see a "Batterygate" in VW groups future....

In what world do you live.
Signed,
I do take the last slice of pizza

 

[Creekstalker]

Getting real tired of always going down

How old are you?

Deliveries better be good.

Or what?

 

[Nocturnal]

Tesla related - the below relates to short range delivery robots, can cover large part of UK population, but not everywhere. Being slow, not suited so well to hot food (might be insulated), a faster vehicle like a Tesla might make sense for pizzas etc, in which case why not cook them en-route?

I've had the same thoughts. It wouldn't even be that complicated to just throw a few of those kiosk type pizza machines into the back of a cybertruck. Lots of options for cross selling too like neighbors get a text saying "pizza truck is nearby, order now for 20% off". etc. Probably not something that Tesla would do themselves but could be an entirely new market for businesses to buy Cybertrucks/vans and modify them for that purpose.

As a side note, I also considered how well suited something like a Cybertruck would be for fairs and events. Instead of a traditional food truck perhaps a CT with several machines in the back to let people self serve. Power is already available after all.

 

[asburgers]

So I guess we’re just not going to talk about the near vertical drop once again at open. Getting real tired of always going down. Deliveries better be good.

Frustrating yes. It's not localized to TSLA though.