Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Nocturnal]

The stupid union credit probably wouldn't even hold up in court, even if it were to get passed. We talk about it too much.

Some marriages have conflict. The children don't benefit.

Bringing a union into the workplace brings negotiation and all the drama that goes with negotiation. BATNA (Best Alternative to a Negotiated Agreement) all that stuff.

Bringing in a union is like hiring an MBA.

Bad for the future of the enterprise.

I'm not so sure about that one.

 

[Dutchie]

Reuters have a story out reporting that NHTSA have written to Tesla with an additional request about their emergency light autopilot crash investigation.

U.S. asks Tesla why it did not recall Autopilot after software changes

It includes a query as to why Tesla didn't issue a recall when they updated autopilot and other requests including about NDA's etc.

It doesn't look like anything major but expect to see a bit more FUD generated off this. Always some bit of FUD just in time to save MM's bacon.

That is plain daft. Recall means an order to return. That is not the case as there is no need to return.

 

[Jack6591]

Sadly, Watson's medical expertise became a failed series of products, including Watson for Oncology, Watson for Genomics, etc.
See What Ever Happened to IBM’s Watson? (NYT, July 2021, and sorry for the paywall).

The failure of the IBM products involved more than just the hard problem of using AI for medical diagnosis.
I agree that the subproblems of radiological interpretation of X-rays for things like cancer may
be amenable to neural net filtering and thus replace radiologists, etc., just not by Watson.

(Aside: I once commuted with SETI project principals Dr. Jill Tarter and Dr. Kent Cullers to work at
NASA Ames Research Center. Fictionalized by the movie "Contact", they were both
amazingly accomplished. As the first blind-from-birth Ph.D physicist, Cullers-the-neural-net
was in fact working on early X-ray breast-cancer detection algorithms at the time. He served as another existence
proof that you don't need to be sighted to do pattern recognition, but that's otherworldly to many still!)

Is your argument that IBM’s hardware and software are static and will remain so?

 

[inconel]

I heard that Lora is contemplating having another poll in her tweeter account: What EV would you buy if you had to make ONE choice.

 

[jhm]

Wow, I hadn't noticed the number 811 before! I suppose $811.08 is even more vibrations of monetary gain.

This is the Tesla numerology thread, right?

 

[generalenthu]

The stupid union credit probably wouldn't even hold up in court, even if it were to get passed. We talk about it too much.

IANAL and think this union credit is legally dubious. That said, can someone who is a lawyer, or has actual legal background comment on this one way or the other. There are a couple of them here (that I don't remember the user names of) and it would be great if some kind soul who remembers their handles could bring this to their attention.

 

[Knightshade]

IANAL and think this union credit is legally dubious. That said, can someone who is a lawyer, or has actual legal background comment on this one way or the other. There are a couple of them here (that I don't remember the user names of) and it would be great if some kind soul who remembers their handles could bring this to their attention.

FWIW every time the "the credit would be illegal" argument comes up, folks making the claim are asked to cite what law, specifically, they think it's breaking.

And they never have an answer.

Sometimes they mumble something about "equal protection" or some such- which isn't really relevant legally, but that's about it.

Generally speaking the US tax code is full of specific provisions and carve-outs for special interests and favoring one group or policy over another.

All of it stands up just fine in court, because the basis test for it is about as low a bar to step over as possible in federal courts.

Home mortgage interest is deductible- rent isn't. That's "unfair" to non-homeowners, but 100% legal.

For decades married couples were taxed quite differently from a pair of single people- 100% legal.

Folks with children are taxed differently than those without- 100% legal.

And myriad more examples in the tax code.



Now- if it's a good idea, or good policy, that's entirely different. But nobody has presented any argument that'd be an issue for it in court to keep existing if they choose to pass it.

 

[generalenthu]

FWIW every time the "the credit would be illegal" argument comes up, folks making the claim are asked to cite what law, specifically, they think it's breaking.

And they never have an answer.

Sometimes they mumble something about "equal protection" or some such- which isn't really relevant legally, but that's about it.

Generally speaking the US tax code is full of specific provisions and carve-outs for special interests and favoring one group or policy over another.

All of it stands up just fine in court, because the basis test for it is about as low a bar to step over as possible in federal courts.

Home mortgage interest is deductible- rent isn't. That's "unfair" to non-homeowners, but 100% legal.

For decades married couples were taxed quite differently from a pair of single people- 100% legal.

Folks with children are taxed differently than those without- 100% legal.

And myriad more examples in the tax code.



Now- if it's a good idea, or good policy, that's entirely different. But nobody has presented any argument that'd be an issue for it in court to keep existing if they choose to pass it.

All the examples you give are with respect to individuals. Not with respect to corporations.

It gets tricky when you say some corporations / products have certain benefits that others don't enjoy. This could even arguably be in conflict with the interstate commerce clause because it disadvantages southern states vis a vis the mid western union states. If portrayed that way, my understanding is the court system would not look favorably on the federal government putting its thumb on the scale.

 

[Thekiwi]

All the examples you give are with respect to individuals. Not with respect to corporations.

It gets tricky when you say some corporations / products have certain benefits that others don't enjoy. This could even arguably be in conflict with the interstate commerce clause because it disadvantages southern states vis a vis the mid western union states. If portrayed that way, my understanding is the court system would not look favorably on the federal government putting its thumb on the scale.

Eh - doesn’t the Oil and gas industries get massive subsidies / tax breaks from the US government?

 

[UnknownSoldier]

So clicked on her tweet to see how people have responded and it says she limits who can see her tweets. What kind of "journalist" limits who can see her tweets?

Ah I see the problem here, you are under the mistaken impression that Lora Fudlodny is a journalist.

 

[generalenthu]

Eh - doesn’t the Oil and gas industries get massive subsidies / tax breaks from the US government?

Yes, was about to mention that in my response, but it doesn't say anything like oil and gas from shale is better than oil and gas from offshore wells, picking winners and losers. Of course there is environmental regulation, that applies differently to these activities, but this is not that.

 

[Thekiwi]

Yes, was about to mention that in my response, but it doesn't say anything like oil and gas from shale is better than oil and gas from offshore wells, picking winners and losers. Of course there is environmental regulation, that applies differently to these activities, but this is not that.

In terms of electricity production it means there is a direct subsidy to those generators who use OIL/GAS/COAL (which all receive direct government subsidies) vs those generators who use Hydro, Wind,Solar & Battery.

 

[Drumheller]

Wow, I hadn't noticed the number 811 before! I suppose $811.08 is even more vibrations of monetary gain.

This is the Tesla numerology thread, right?

More interesting than the endless union debate. Perhaps we could have a separate thread for the union discussion?

 

[Thumper]

We need a vomit emoji

 

[kemallette]

The 8-K listing the final shareholder voting results is now out.

tsla-8k_20211007.htm

There were 9 voting items of which shareholders voted against the board's recommendations on these three items:

• Proposal 2 was a management proposal to adopt amendments to Tesla’s certificate of incorporation to reduce director terms to two years. This proposal was not approved because it did not constitute at least 66 2/3% of the total outstanding shares of Tesla’s common stock.
• Proposal 5 was a non-binding advisory stockholder proposal regarding reduction of director terms to one year. This stockholder proposal was approved.
• Proposal 6 was a non-binding advisory stockholder proposal regarding additional reporting on diversity and inclusion efforts. This stockholder proposal was approved.

 

[InTheShadows]

IANAL and think this union credit is legally dubious. That said, can someone who is a lawyer, or has actual legal background comment on this one way or the other. There are a couple of them here (that I don't remember the user names of) and it would be great if some kind soul who remembers their handles could bring this to their attention.

Warren Redlich (I recall him saying he’s an attorney) commented on it a few weeks ago in one of his videos saying it is not legal and should in no way ever get approved. (My words not his)

 

[generalenthu]

In terms of electricity production it means there is a direct subsidy to those generators who use OIL/GAS/COAL (which all receive direct government subsidies) vs those generators who use Hydro, Wind,Solar & Battery.

There were some things done in the name of national energy security and independence. But it was nowhere near as explicit as this one, pitting some states against the center.

Even legislatively speaking, I am not sure how the Democratic Congressmen from urban centers where these factories are, would support this.

 

[SPadival]

Reuters have a story out reporting that NHTSA have written to Tesla with an additional request about their emergency light autopilot crash investigation.

U.S. asks Tesla why it did not recall Autopilot after software changes

It includes a query as to why Tesla didn't issue a recall when they updated autopilot and other requests including about NDA's etc.

It doesn't look like anything major but expect to see a bit more FUD generated off this. Always some bit of FUD just in time to save MM's bacon.

Look at old media lamenting that the market doesn't care...won't somebody think of the children

Tesla Should Have Recalled Cars, Regulators Say

U.S. automotive-safety regulators want some answers from Tesla over its software and recall practices.

www.barrons.com

 

[ZachF]

Tesla manufacturing FTW...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1448366687670181889

On top of that, because of high vertical integration, Tesla probably manufactures a larger percentage of each vehicle too…

 

[SPadival]

People who have over 50% of their portfolio invested in TSLA should be able to skip the line to order the car. These queues are ridiculous.

Can someone famous tweet this out to Elon for consideration?

/semi serious

Umm, they should prioritise deliveries to the country that supplies them with Lithium.. for crying out loud.

Note: Model Y is missing from this reservation dashboard, because I can't even reserve it yet!!