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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

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Long time lurker here.

So with offical short interest up 8% in the last reporting session (29 million shares short, up from 27 million) which was Septh 30th (TSLA closed at $781 on Sept 30th), how about a new 1:3 or 1:4 or even 1:5 split soon, using the exact same mechanism as the August 2020 5:1 split (4 new shares issued per owned share)? Would it put the same kind of pressure on the shorts as last time? In 2020, in the time period from when Tesla announced the split until it actually happened the share rose 81%, and another 42% until year end. 🧐


Not enough authorized shares exist for such a split- they'd need a shareholder vote to approve more shares first.

And the theory of split hurts shorts is primarily talking the naked rule-exempt ones who don't show up in the report you just mentioned anyway.
 
Not enough authorized shares exist for such a split- they'd need a shareholder vote to approve more shares first.

And the theory of split hurts shorts is primarily talking the naked rule-exempt ones who don't show up in the report you just mentioned anyway.

I see. But the official short interest numbers do reflect some type of sentiment, so one would assume that obscured/naked/illegal/indirect shorting would correlate? I take the point about needing shareholder approval.
 
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All those TSLA shares that were sold short on Wed to hold the SP down pre-earnings have to be delivered today:


Further, any shorting done yesterday to protect the 900 Calls will have to be delivered on Monday (possibly leading to another short-covering rally).

Any 900 Call contracts executed after the Close today will put an even harder squeeze on the supply of shares, and MMs are on the hook for each round.

Damn, MMs are in a tight spot.

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Have fun, boys. :D

Cheers!

but tsla is very easy and cheap borrow right now, which allows any short position to stay open as long as they can take it, financially
 
Exclusive or priority access to Boring tunnels, making transportation faster. So, it is worth more for the customer, and the taxi can have more rides. Double effect!

Tesla and Musk walk a fine line between maximizing profit and being earnest with their corporate mission. The Boring tunnels by their nature can only allow EVs due to ventilation constraints, and I suspect cars will have to be autopiloted for efficiency and safety reasons. So whether Tesla wants it that way or not, only Tesla cars with AP enabled will be eligible.

The tunnels can easily become the #1 reason a large swath of people switch to Tesla
 
We live in a time were bubble-think disinformation mediated by social media is literally an epidemic crisis. It's very important for society to understand how bubble-think works so as to safeguard from it. For instance, TSLAQ is an information bubble and exists at a social level, not individual level. I know at least one person, a co-worker, who was taken in by TSLAQ and lost a lot of money shorting Tesla. As an individual he has come to realize that shorting Tesla is a really dumb idea and he has moved on with his life. TSLAQ as a social bubble, however, rolls right along as if nothing has been learned. That is, people like my co-worker, who wake up to reality, are not really welcome to voice that within TSLAQ circles. Indeed, they are often driven out. So as someone moves past the cognitive limitations of TSLAQ what they have learned is ejected from the bubble. The bubble retains as much ignorance as it had before people like my co-worker woke up to reality. The issue is whether the the bubble can attract new uninformed members as quickly as members wise up and exit the bubble. If so, the bubble can persist a very long time. Additionally, those who remain the longest with the bubble are likely the least cognitively equipped person or otherwise motivated participants in disinformation, e.g., paid shills.

So is TMC a social bubble? Perhaps. Some of the dynamics are similar. Members with divergent views tend not to stick around for long. Certainly we have had notable members who have "woke up" to how Elon Musk cannot be trusted, poor Tesla service will destroy the company, etc. It is actually a healthy sign that we have these debates from time to time. At any rate, we cannot rule out the possibility that TMC could become a social bubble which is unhinged from reality. I do not believe this is presently the case however. The basic epistemological question we must always ask ourselves is, how would I know if I were wrong? Is there any external source of information that could persuade me that Tesla is on the wrong track? Indeed there are. We pour over SEC filings and other statements from Tesla. These are external sources of information. If Tesla were on the wrong path as evidenced by say quarterly filings, would we be able to modify our views of Tesla a going concern? I believe that for most of us the answer is yes. Personally, my investment thesis is based on Tesla being able to sustain 50% annual growth on average over many years. We see in Q3 that Tesla is able grow revenue 57% y/y, gross profit 77%, and deliveries 73%. So by multiple metrics we get robust confirmation that Tesla is indeed growing by about 50% annually. Had any of these metrics been below 40%, most of us would be very concerned and would have robust debate about whether this is just a short-term issue to be resolve in the coming year. If two-year or three-year growth were to slow below 40% CAGR, I think many of us would be able to admit that Tesla is no longer the growth engine it once was. We'd have to change our investment thesis away from one that was based on assumed 50% growth. (Tesla may still be a very good investment even with slower growth or not.) This is all quite intellectually healthy. I believe that TMC will be able to navigate such changes in the investment theses we hold.

On the other hand, TSLAQ seems unable to do this. Do they read the quarterly reports? Yes, many do. But is this for them an external source of credible information? Sadly, no. They do not view any statements from Tesla as credible. They operate with a hermeneutic of suspicion regarding Tesla's management. That is, they believe that management is trying to deceive them and the public at every turn. Hoaxes! Lies! Fraud! So when Tesla reports 73% growth in deliveries, they immediately hold that information is suspicion. The discount this in any number of ways. It might be an accounting trick. It might be cover for some worse fraud or deception. And on and on. This sort of cynical, undisciplined hyper-skepticism is really a form of disinformation. Essentially, it gives license to bubble-think members to utterly disregard Tesla as an external inform source. TSLAQ as group appears to lack any ability to take in external information without transforming it into their own disinformation. Even losing billions shorting Tesla is transformed into disinformation when they console themselves that the market price for Tesla is just a bubble, which ought to burst sometime soon. Again the less cognitively impaired ones will take their losses and walk away from the TSLAQ bubble, but those who remain will have learned nothing. Indeed those who remain will embraces increasingly bizarre delusions to suppress psychologically and sociologically all information contrary to their collective bubble-think.

Now are there Tesla bears who are not part of TSLAQ? I would hope so. We genuinely need there to be well informed participants who scrutinize Tesla. For such a person to be worth listening to, they have be willing to take SEC filings and other external sources of information at face value. They really ought to have genuine respect for Elon Musk and be willing to believe what Tesla's management has to say. Indeed Musk and Tesla's management generally often have many critical things to say about the company. If you listen carefully you will hear what risks management is aware of and probably mitigating in someway. There is little reason for cognitively competent bull and bears to disagree on what the real risks are. The substantial disagreement is on how likely and severe these risks may be and how likely management will be able to mitigate or work around these risks. For example, management is clear that Tesla is facing supply chain problems. This is real risk that both bulls and bear need to understand and accept. The bear could argue that these supply chain risks are too high and could imperil Tesla's future. Fair enough, bulls can also look at those same risks and conclude that management will work through those risks with agility and that the balance sheet is strong enough to financially sustain these headwinds. In confronting real risks, any of us can be bullish or bearish to some extent. And it is particularly healthy for investors to be able to acknowledge our doubts and worries as well as the reasons why we accept the risk/reward profile of the investment. My own opinion is that TMC is a place were we can process both beliefs and doubts regarding Tesla in a health, constructive and adaptive manner.

Cheers!
Thanks for this. I agree that this forum has balance; there is an obvious tilt toward bullish, but that is logical, and personally, I find it affirming. I appreciate (generally) the divergent views, and especially appreciate that there are a good number of posters that have deep insights around many aspects of business and investing. OT, but I’d love it if there were a separate thread that explored the concept of “social bubbles,” and how they form, and how they dissipate. I see (as I’m sure everyone does), many examples of this in current life, and it is destructive. If for no other reason, I could use some new insights to better figure out how to bridge divides within my own family. I would guess some of them may think I live in a bubble..
 
Even beyond this investment forum, our cult in general is sleeping on the Boring Company. A few years ago I personally thought it was a bad idea and Elon had finally put out a dud. Mainstream public perception is even worse--most believe this system is dangerous, wastefully expensive, bad for the environment, a publicity stunt, only meant for elites, and low capacity. To me this feels like the EV industry in 2010 all over again, with the truth drowned out by a flood of misinformation, misunderstanding and lies.

The rapid construction this decade of Loop systems in Las Vegas and then probably South Florida, two of America's two most popular travel destinations, with nascent Loops blooming in several other cities, will be a major awakening.

Already, per Steve Davis, several hundred thousand people have ridden in the LVCC Loop. Statistically speaking, we know that for the majority of those riders this was their first experience in a Tesla. No doubt this is already contributing a non-negligible amount to the explosion of American and Canadian demand for Teslas we've witnessed since the summer.

I want a future with cities quiet enough to hear the birds singing, where impediments to walking and cycling are removed, and where children can play in many of the old streets formerly filled with traffic. I want to address a significant root cause of the developed world's obesity and cancer crisis. I want to stop routing highways and arterial roads through disadvantaged communities. I want to solve traffic once and for all.
We (at least I) should have seen that subterranean transport and emission-free vehicles are a perfect match. In fact, emission-free vehicle are the only vehicles that should be permitted in Boring tunnels. Another moat.
 
but tsla is very easy and cheap borrow right now, which allows any short position to stay open as long as they can take it, financially
Agree with this. Back in August, ETrade called me to offer daily interest payments to loan out my "hard-to-borrow" shares in my non-margin account (Roth IRA). I thought they were talking about TSLA, but he mentioned a couple of other stocks I hold, so I decided to try it out. I get a daily report of the payments, and in over 2 months none of my TSLA has been loaned out. It's mostly ARKK, ARKG and some former SPACs (e.g. CLOV, KVSB, SOFI).
 
In addition, you’ve mentioned in the past how much less money Tesla spends on warranty and recall costs because they don’t have the marked-up labor rates of dealerships. I remember bringing in my car for service at BMW and they were happy to tell me that my car had 3 outstanding recalls.
So that 5%-7% advantage may be higher.
Absolutely, although I think the warranty cost advantage is now being derived more from changes in manufacturing and component elements that we were less informed about a year ago. My current ranking of warranty cost expectations is:
1. The 'Gigapress' phenomenon and all it implies. The primary emphasis has been on manufacturing cost savings, properly so. Eliminating hundreds of parts in Model Y from front and rear will certainly act to reduce weight and complexity, both major pieces of warranty costs, plus drastically increasing overall rigidity, which reduces many squats, rattles, body and chassis problems that are often difficult to diagnose and repair.
2. The Octovalve and all it implies. After a few startup problems the Octovalve approach has eliminating many defect-prone hoses, connectors and other components which also tend to be sensitive to vibration and temperature changes.
3. The evolving paint shop revisions, notably commencing in Grùneheide. Probably third are the various paint-related problem areas typical for new vehicles. Many fo those are repaired in factory, many others by point-of-sale when shipping damages are noted. Others happen later. These are invariably expensive to repair, particularly with labor costs. Better paint shop process control makes the entire vehicle less susceptible to those defects.
4. Changing battery chemistry and improved pack construction techniques. The total number of fasteners and connectors in the newest cells is much more robust than in earlier ones, further a majority of vehicles is being delivered with lithium-iron-phosphate (LFP) chemistry. The fewer connectors, the fewer warranty claims due to connector failure. LFP is also less sensitive than are the higher-performance chemistries, so probably will also have fewer failures. Between these issues is also the evolution to structural packs, which itself will drastically reduce failure areas.
5. Because of OTA monitoring Tesla is now regularly diagnosing problems before they cause vehicle failure, requiring emergency service. That is a giant step t reducing costs, not because of repair frequency but because of repair severity. Proactive replacement of 12v batteries, for example, costs perhaps about a twentieth of the costs of emergency replacement.
6. Then comes the effects of dealer warranty repair enthusiasm and high labor and parts markups. Obviously related is the dealer required maintenance which increases user costs and provides opportunity to discover 'warranty repairs'.

Thus the relentless search for more efficient manufacturing and distribution ends out creating a virtuous cycle of cost reduction, most of which directly reduce warranty costs too. Until we began seeing:
1. the Shanghai quality improvements,
2.the OTA improvements (imagine what the Model 3 brake issue would have been and they not managed to do it through software, so a simple update) and,
3. the Grüneheide fair.
I did not realize how important all these things were in warranty cost reduction.

All that became quite visceral for me when I took delvery of my new Model S Plaid. There were numerous complaints for other buyers about various issues. When mine arrives it was impeccable and has remained so. That never happened before, there were always problems. Now it seems Tesla is determined to deliver pristine products. After all it is much cheaper to do it right before delivery. Those lessons are, it seems, being applied in many areas.

Netting all of that I fully expect warranty reserves to gradually decrease on a per vehicle basis for all vehicles. Clearly Shanghai, Grüneheide and Austin are almost certain to have lower warranty cost impacts than will Fremont, but Fremont will continue improving as they improve manufacturing process to allow for higher production rates, Elon says by 40%. That same process will also bear better quality control in Sparks.

Warranty reserves are set by world class conservative actuarial processes. The cost of under-reserving is much higher than for over-reserving, at least for the actuaries. Thus, since they are historians by nature (past claims will continue to be equal to current levels) they district anything new. Thus with Model S and Model Y becoming better established, even without all those improvements above, the actuaries will gradually reduce required levels.

The giant question is "how much?". I do not expect dramatic reductions immediately but I do expect substantial reduction as a percentage of sales as demonstrated improvement, continue to be proven.
 
We (at least I) should have seen that subterranean transport and emission-free vehicles are a perfect match. In fact, emission-free vehicle are the only vehicles that should be permitted in Boring tunnels. Another moat.

So wait... Is a tunnel a moat with a roof? Or is a moat a tunnel with a convertible top? :p

Cheers!
 
Just wanted to say that I, very briefly, joined the Teslanaire club today. Thank you all for the insight and incredible discussion through good times and bad. Tesla is doing amazing things and I’m proud to be a part of this revolution.

Cheers! 🍻


Give it a few minutes and you will be rich again.
 
Been expecting that for a long while now.

Bet you they also get a new rear-view mirror with the interior cam for driver monitoring at the same time.
This is just smart strategy since FSD isn't solved yet...My guess is that they haven't decided new HW is necessary yet...Once the decision that it's necessary is made, it makes sense to do it immediately. Every Q Tesla increases the number of cameras that might need to be replaced, so delaying that decision is costly. If they can deliver FSD per the sales agreement and then offer a higher level of FSD for upgraded price/HW, they could do that too. Maybe current HW gets you 2x average driver capability, satisfying the sales agreement....but new cameras and HW4.0 gets you 3x or 4x or 10x? That's worth something to some people and might become the new standard in the future,

Glad they've got the option either way.