Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[mad474]

Maybe someday those foreign cars will come equipped with that fancy "take 10 minutes of video" button!

Thanks, right you are! I silly have not thought of the big button with audible feedback in the middle of the steering wheel. Next time, promise!

 

[kanweg]

I'd still get back at electromagnetic shocks, but unfortunately Bose pantented them. ?

Whatever Bose is.

In any case, it is shocking nothing has improved for several years.

If this is the one (US4960290) it will have lapsed (as it is quite old).

US4960290A - Wheel assembly suspending - Google Patents

A vehicle suspension system includes a wheel damper in combination with a nonlinear active dynamically controlled system for vehicle suspension.

patents.google.com

 

[CorneliusXX]

I'd still get back at electromagnetic shocks, but unfortunately Bose pantented them. ?

Whatever Bose is.

In any case, it is shocking nothing has improved for several years.

Elon is really hyping the technological tour de force angle for the CT. It's not outside the realms of possibility to have something this complicated.

That said, this setup feels like it would be a significant increase in cost - Unless Tesla engineers can work their magic.

I'd also want to make sure it's robust enough to handle trucks bouncing around the paddocks all day before it goes into mass production.

 

[kanweg]

Sunday diversion: If you are living hell with climate deniers around you, take some solace in this top notch potholer54 video where debunks some myths perpetuated in the blogosphere and as a bonus makes minced meat of people “who do their own research” in a brilliantly dry manner.

 

[Buckminster]

Boring! Next!

 

[OrthoSurg]

Elon is really hyping the technological tour de force angle for the CT. It's not outside the realms of possibility to have something this complicated.

That said, this setup feels like it would be a significant increase in cost - Unless Tesla engineers can work their magic.

I'd also want to make sure it's robust enough to handle trucks bouncing around the paddocks all day before it goes into mass production.

Elon will want to produce the best pick up truck in all categories. No compromises. At some point I was wondering what Tesla would do when Rivian announced their 4 motors R1T. Happy to see their are probably making the 4 motors version so Tesla haters won’t use that argument everywhere against Tesla in the twittersphere.

 

[inconel]

Boring! Next!

Once it is perfectly boring it'll be perfect.

 

[2daMoon]

I think you have some unintentional ICE bias in your perspective here. We have a RWD Model 3 with only one motor which I've driven in all conditions. On ice, snow, wet grass, mud, leaves, sand and gravel, it is nothing like an ICE RWD sedan due to the lack of a front engine, more like a mid-engine sports car. That's what weight distribution can do. I also have a 4x4 F-150 so I'm well aware of the limitations of an ICE pickup when in RWD mode. But a RWD Cybertruck would be crazy better even if it only had one motor on the rear axle due to the much better weight distribution.

However, there is another advantage of a two motor RWD EV that neither ICE nor our RWD Model 3 has, independent motor control. The F-150 is essentially one wheel drive (in RWD mode), even it's mechanical limited slip differential doesn't make it 2WD. So is the RWD Model 3, at least until the electronic aids pulse the brakes to control the spin of the rear wheel. On the other hand, independent motors on each rear wheel with nearly perfect weight distribution and instantaneous electronic torque modulation of each rear wheel individually would make a RWD Cybertruck in another league from any RWD ICE pick-up. It would be like they were from different planets. The Cybertruck with twin rear motors would be a seriously nice driving machine even climbing some relatively challenging hills or towing a heavy trailer on slippery surfaces because weight transfers to the drive wheels when you need the extra traction (climbing and towing).

Would it be as good as AWD? Actually, it would be considerably better than some AWD vehicles, specifically ICE AWD that have open differentials. Which is a lot of them. Because they are essentially 2WD powertrains in slippery conditions limited to the traction of the one front tire and the one rear tire that has the least amount of traction.

All of my Cybertruck orders are for AWD versions but a RWD version with independent rear motors would be a stunningly good all-around performer, even for light to moderate off-pavement duty.

Many of the potential advantages you have reinforced were alluded to in the post you quoted. (traction control systems, body design weighting the rear axle more, etc.) Thanks for adding detail to support that.

The advantages of AWD stand on their own in regard to function and production. Just because a fairly good RWD CT could be made may still not quite justify doing so once the handling/safety, additional production complication, and other factors have been weighed.

I'll leave that decision to Tesla as they have likely put much more thought into it than we have here. So far they have done a good job of eliminating models with marginal feature differences. This has been reflected in the share price, even when it has disappointed a few folks who have ordered models subsequently discontinued and been told to select from the choices they continue producing.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Boring! Next!

And with that post I was delighted to see that my update is also ready. Thx, wasn’t sure when it was coming.

 

[22522]

Many of the potential advantages you have reinforced were alluded to in the post you quoted. (traction control systems, body design weighting the rear axle more, etc.) Thanks for adding detail to support that.

The advantages of AWD stand on their own in regard to function and production. Just because a fairly good RWD CT could be made may still not quite justify doing so once the handling/safety, additional production complication, and other factors have been weighed.

I'll leave that decision to Tesla as they have likely put much more thought into it than we have here. So far they have done a good job of eliminating models with marginal feature differences. This has been reflected in the share price, even when it has disappointed a few folks who have ordered models subsequently discontinued and been told to select from the choices they continue producing.

Except for silver, I agree.

On driving the front wheels, I see that as slightly less important than regenerating from the front wheels. Regenerative braking thresholds can be much higher if the front wheels are playing an active role in regeneration.

If you ever drove the rear wheel drive BMW EV, regeneration had to disengage when cornering (presumably to avoid spinning the car off the roadway on slick surfaces). This kind of messed up the experience for the driver steering around the corner.

Regenerative braking on all four corners is safer, more predictable and can have higher thresholds for better energy economy (range).

For a big somewhat blocky vehicle, the desire for good regenerative braking would point to 2 choices, both AWD, but with different power and range/battery choices.

 

[JRP3]

HD trucks are often 2WD. AWD is more of a weather thing (or boat ramp) than a towing/ payload driver. Utility wise, it's better to have more power on the rear axle where bed and towing loads rest.

Dual rear: Each motor section only needs half the power output. No differential. No need to use brakes to control slip. Reuse of quad motor rear unit.

One front one rear: 2 more half shafts, additional drive unit housing, unique differential front and rear drive units. Brakes for slip traction control. Still two rotor/ stators/inverter sets.

While all that is true if you're looking for max towing capability you'll want the largest pack and I doubt that will be offered in the lowest priced RWD version if such a thing is offered. Even when towing having AWD offers advantages over RWD in many situations. Towing boats and utility trailers are probably the most common uses and both will often be in low traction situations such as boat ramps and dirt roads/construction sites. Percieved value of AWD/4WD over RWD is high and reflected in the price of products. All things considered I see the likelihood of a RWD dual motor truck from Tesla to be low.

 

[Unpilot]

Sunday diversion: If you are living hell with climate deniers around you, take some solace in this top notch potholer54 video where debunks some myths perpetuated in the blogosphere and as a bonus makes minced meat of people “who do their own research” in a brilliantly dry manner.

Love potholer54!

 

[SageBrush]

As much as I am a PHEV pessimist in general, I keep wondering if trucks are not the niche for people who rarely tow, but when they do it would require a 200 kWh battery in BEV form, and appropriate charging facilities.

I've said it before and I think it is still true: ALL the BEV truck designs coming to market I know of are ignoring what it takes to tow something big and heavy for 200+ miles, and few consumers are clued in.

 

[2daMoon]

Another Best in Tesla Sunday News edition is out. Enjoy.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

If you ever drove the rear wheel drive BMW EV, regeneration had to disengage when cornering (presumably to avoid spinning the car off the roadway on slick surfaces). This kind of messed up the experience for the driver steering around the corner.

The rear wheel drive Teslas don't do this.

 

[JRP3]

I've said it before and I think it is still true: ALL the BEV truck designs coming to market I know of are ignoring what it takes to tow something big and heavy for 200+ miles, and few consumers are clued in.

True but it's a rare use case for most trucks. EV trucks don't yet need to cover all possible scenarios, production will be limited and demand will be high for a long time.

 

[SOULPEDL]

Not sure if posted, going for a drive on 8.6 (Edit: 10.6, oops)

 

[Unpilot]

Not sure if posted, going for a drive on 8.6

Hope you get 10.6 soon........ 8.6 is pretty old

 

[SOULPEDL]

Hope you get 10.6 soon........ 8.6 is pretty old

Lol, I keep saying 8 not 10. There must have been an 8 in my past dreams.

 

[2daMoon]

Lol, I keep saying 8 not 10. There must have been an 8 in my past dreams.

Maybe it was the result of something you eight.