Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
Hmm lets see:
Chicken sold short TSLA at 270
Elon sold TSLA at 165 and pushed us to new lows

Chicken covered his short at 200
Elon doesnt buy back his shares

I wonder whos been creating more damage to the stock? Yet you defend one and call the other a narcisist. Interesting.
If the share price was determined by someone playing a video game, Elon.

If the share price was determined by Tesla's execution, then I wonder how many days Chicken Genuis slept on the Tesla's factory floor and what kind of changes he provided to Tesla to make them as of last Q more profitable than Toyota?
 
I think Tesla will succeed in the mission even if Elon stays multi-CEO, only question is TSLA performance. And that is coupled to Elon owning a lot of stock (among other factors) and nobody knowing when he will sell more which creates uncertainty. Only if one can either trust his word again ("will be last out of TSLA") or having sold everything gets rid of that uncertainty and resulting stock underperformance relative to execution of Tesla.

So having another CEO either at Tesla or Twitter does not solve the problem IHMO, it is coupled to ownership.
Fair point but in the long term fear of Elon selling more shares is a small factor in the SP, IMO. The bigger concerns in the minds of the big investors are whether anyone is minding the store, the brand image, plus all of the other factors discussed here and elsewhere.

I do have a bullish thought to pass on (shocking I know). I just watched the All In podcast, which is hosted by Elon's buddies, and even those guys are saying Twitter is distracting Elon from his more important missions which are to run Tesla and SpaceX. My theory is that it was they who goaded Elon into acquiring Twitter. You'd have to watch the podcast regularly to understand. In fact, they were hanging with Elon the night he went to Chappelle's show and got booed off the stage. Anyway, it seems that now there are some people who are known to have influence on Elon who may get him refocused.

My fear, though, is that the damage done to the brand may be hard to repair and that Elon won't do what is required to do that. I hope I'm wrong.
 
Nominate for Post of Merit...
Yeah, it’s been a perfect week.
9BE773F4-B0B9-4688-9929-CEA2B9A15075.jpeg
 
28 months back to be exact. August 27, 2020 was first time ever that TSLA hit $150. more relevant is a date exactly 25 months ago: November 17, 2020 when TSLA gapped up upon S&p 500 inclusion announcement. there is a gap support between $136 and $147 between nov 16 and 17th, 2020.
very high probability of testing that.
we are -41.9% off 200 day sma.
last time it happened was -39.3% on june 3, 2019 and -39% on february 10,2016
percentage wise we are down -63.7% over 13.5 months since november 4, 2021
guess how much was COVID downturn in TSLA from 2-4-2020 through 3-18-2020 ?
-63.8%
by contrast early 2017 was -50% or so
what does it all mean?
not much, except this current downturn is almost worst in entire tesla history
so, either there is something seriously wrong with underlying fundamentals of tesla or bears are pressing their luck with help from current CEO
i bet my money on latter
If we step back a bit the earnings multiple has swung from the high side to the low side, then tracked well below low to be factoring in hardly any revenue and earnings growth, at a time when revenue and earnings growth looks more likely than ever.

If there is a recession, a fear of a recession, or high interest rates, it is common for company revenues to and earnings to contract, that is a general trend, which IMO is unlikely to apply to Tesla.

Should it become apparent that interest rate rises are slowing or even reversing, inflation is subsiding or that there will be no recession, sentiment can change quickly.

I don't think the PE ratio of Tesla backed by solid earnings has ever been this good. I'm still expecting increased revenue and earnings for the next few years. Even if there is a recession, growing earnings in a recession might be highly rated by the market.
 
Second margarita and the good news continues.

Tesla Giga Texas will soon start installing the 9,000-ton Giga Press as the parts are already in the factory. Parts and unpacked boxes marked IDRA are seen in the Casting Shop.

Tesla Gigafactory Texas has finally received a delivery from the Italian IDRA. This is the long-awaited Giga Press with a clamping force of 9,000 tons, which will be used to produce the rear single-piece cast of the Cybertruck. Boxes of parts for the giant machine have been in Texas for weeks now, but none of the factory's progress observers have been able to spot the delivery to the factory grounds.


 
Manufacturers can set residual values. A prime example of this finance fiasco is the impending bankruptcy of Mclaren. They set really high residuals and when those cars start coming back and cannot support those values... yikes.
Please read my post. Indeed manufacturers can and do subsidize Residual Values and credit risk with calamitous results. One, the BMW E65 7 Series allegedly lost about $14000 per vehicle. Several Rolls Royce, Maserati and GM models have had rather spectacular losses.
others, like SAAB had bud losses when the make was discontinued. Every exotic vehicle has had interesting times even standouts like Porsche and Ferrari. McLaren is another in a long line of sales-focused lease offers.

That is largely why Tesla avoided leasing until they had a track record.

Few of those directly harmed captive finance companies since they were largely subvened rates. Manufacturers always have specialized treatment for captives so manage their businesses to make finance appear to be the most consistently profitable part of the business.
 
Man there is a lot of negativity here nowadays. This forum is the reason I was I went all in back in 2019, and was able to "semi-retire" at young age at the end of 2020. Forever grateful for that, but at the present time I'm not sure if there is a lot of value here right now. Just bickering.

The stock sales by Elon sting for sure. But I can see it from his perspective pretty clearly. Tesla does not need a certain TSLA price to survive. It is almost meaningless to the success of the company and mission at this point. Elon's new ventures may not survive, so the his decision is very rational in that context. None of this approach should come as a surprise given we are talking about someone who made it clear in the past he felt the stock of his own company was overvalued. It is what it is. If you believe in the business fundamentally long term, none of this matters. If you actively trade or use leverage/margin, that's cool too but this is a reminder that Elon is going to Elon and he dgaf about anything other than whether the company itself is tracking to achieve its mission. That just needs to be a data point in thinking about how to play things.

I think hanging out on places like this forum, or on "TSLA twitter" when things are so negative does little to no good. Criticisms or negative outlooks just naturally feel more convincing when the share price is in the shitter. Not because they are more valid, but because no matter ones conviction (well for most of us) the market pricing something far lower than we think it should be will always allow doubt to creep in. That doubt makes ill informed or even worse, malicious, negative views feel just that bit more convincing. Emotion takes hold and bad decisions are made.

Places like this (while I do greatly appreciate it!) can give the false sense that there is a constant stream of actionable information, so consuming it regularly is helpful. In reality I don't think that's remotely close to true. Ultimately the long term thesis will be validated or rejected slowly over time.

Personally I believe very strongly that:
  1. Tesla has a unique approach to their products that is compelling in a completely unmatched way
  2. Tesla has a massive talent edge over all of their competition.
  3. Tesla has a culture of efficiency and productivity that is unrivaled amongst their competition.
  4. EVs are a superior technology for the vast majority of the population, and governments are clearly encouraging their adoption
  5. Tesla has the best chance to succeed at a fully functional self driving experience due to the scope of data they have available
  6. Tesla is the only company currently able to fully capitalize on the massive economies of scale that can be achieved with this new battery/electric world (e.g. battery learnings applying to cars and stationary grid storage, or high performance sedan electric motors being used to make more compelling Semi trucks)
None of these thesis will be suddenly invalidated tomorrow via some tweet, some post, or some news article. But if not careful times like these can mistakenly make one think all of them are invalid.

I'm not exactly a major contributor here, but I'm taking a step away (from here and Twitter) for this reason. I can feel that doubt creeping in bits here and there. I also de-risked myself a bit to sleep easier (TSLA at $400 definitely encouraged some fun little purchases on margin, after all what's the worst that could happen right?) and focus on the long term points I mentioned above.

In hindsight I believe it was pretty hard to justify TSLA was really a $400/share stock last year, but it's equally difficult to justify it's a $150/share stock now. This too shall pass.
 
Man there is a lot of negativity here nowadays. This forum is the reason I was I went all in back in 2019, and was able to "semi-retire" at young age at the end of 2020. Forever grateful for that, but at the present time I'm not sure if there is a lot of value here right now. Just bickering.

The stock sales by Elon sting for sure. But I can see it from his perspective pretty clearly. Tesla does not need a certain TSLA price to survive. It is almost meaningless to the success of the company and mission at this point. Elon's new ventures may not survive, so the his decision is very rational in that context. None of this approach should come as a surprise given we are talking about someone who made it clear in the past he felt the stock of his own company was overvalued. It is what it is. If you believe in the business fundamentally long term, none of this matters. If you actively trade or use leverage/margin, that's cool too but this is a reminder that Elon is going to Elon and he dgaf about anything other than whether the company itself is tracking to achieve its mission. That just needs to be a data point in thinking about how to play things.

I think hanging out on places like this forum, or on "TSLA twitter" when things are so negative does little to no good. Criticisms or negative outlooks just naturally feel more convincing when the share price is in the shitter. Not because they are more valid, but because no matter ones conviction (well for most of us) the market pricing something far lower than we think it should be will always allow doubt to creep in. That doubt makes ill informed or even worse, malicious, negative views feel just that bit more convincing. Emotion takes hold and bad decisions are made.

Places like this (while I do greatly appreciate it!) can give the false sense that there is a constant stream of actionable information, so consuming it regularly is helpful. In reality I don't think that's remotely close to true. Ultimately the long term thesis will be validated or rejected slowly over time.

Personally I believe very strongly that:
  1. Tesla has a unique approach to their products that is compelling in a completely unmatched way
  2. Tesla has a massive talent edge over all of their competition.
  3. Tesla has a culture of efficiency and productivity that is unrivaled amongst their competition.
  4. EVs are a superior technology for the vast majority of the population, and governments are clearly encouraging their adoption
  5. Tesla has the best chance to succeed at a fully functional self driving experience due to the scope of data they have available
  6. Tesla is the only company currently able to fully capitalize on the massive economies of scale that can be achieved with this new battery/electric world (e.g. battery learnings applying to cars and stationary grid storage, or high performance sedan electric motors being used to make more compelling Semi trucks)
None of these thesis will be suddenly invalidated tomorrow via some tweet, some post, or some news article. But if not careful times like these can mistakenly make one think all of them are invalid.

I'm not exactly a major contributor here, but I'm taking a step away (from here and Twitter) for this reason. I can feel that doubt creeping in bits here and there. I also de-risked myself a bit to sleep easier (TSLA at $400 definitely encouraged some fun little purchases on margin, after all what's the worst that could happen right?) and focus on the long term points I mentioned above.

In hindsight I believe it was pretty hard to justify TSLA was really a $400/share stock last year, but it's equally difficult to justify it's a $150/share stock now. This too shall pass.
 
What inventory numbers were you seeing before, in '19 and '20?

The inventory tracking sites now show 400 to 600 M3 and MY's, and that just what Tesla is willing to show externally--I posit the numbers are far greater internally as they are running out of places to park cars (or so I've heard) . . . .

For those us watching the ever-dropping TSLA stock price, the IRA $7.5k Federal Tax Credit is a huge part of that inventory glut, BUT so are Elon's never-ending TSLA sales, combined with his chronic "How many potential Tesla buyers can I alienate today?" Tweets.

It's getting on my nerves because he's so simultaneously brilliant, and insanely stupid and out of touch with reality. It has cost me so many, many dollars as well with having to buy/waste puts to keep the margin monster at bay.

On a much-needed vacay, replies will be very delayed.

Peak numbers I saw in 18/19 were 3-4k autos.

When we were looking for a Model Y, I have a customized email alert daily that sends me a list of cars (Perf MY). Yesterday there were 5 that popped up, today all of them are unavailable. Sold? Probably.
 
Please read my post. Indeed manufacturers can and do subsidize Residual Values and credit risk with calamitous results. One, the BMW E65 7 Series allegedly lost about $14000 per vehicle. Several Rolls Royce, Maserati and GM models have had rather spectacular losses.
others, like SAAB had bud losses when the make was discontinued. Every exotic vehicle has had interesting times even standouts like Porsche and Ferrari. McLaren is another in a long line of sales-focused lease offers.

That is largely why Tesla avoided leasing until they had a track record.

Few of those directly harmed captive finance companies since they were largely subvened rates. Manufacturers always have specialized treatment for captives so manage their businesses to make finance appear to be the most consistently profitable part of the business.
And that’s on the finance side, every seven series used to have ~$8-9K worth of trunk money.