I think the economy and high interest rates have a lot to do with luxury cars not selling as well as they used to, including the S & X. People are tightening belts right now and that's going to have a large impact on the auto market, particularly at the top.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
I think the economy and high interest rates have a lot to do with luxury cars not selling as well as they used to, including the S & X. People are tightening belts right now and that's going to have a large impact on the auto market, particularly at the top.
Krugerrand
Meow
Why do you present that in a fashion that suggests it’s a problem?
Remember everyone saying Tesla can’t do it all. This would be others doing it. It’s not like a Tesla won’t be able to continue to charge anywhere. So it’s a win.
Krugerrand
Meow
Awesome. Now we can all begin to let go of the forever flagship idea and Tesla is free to finally cancel these models, making the vehicles that exist collector items, and can spend the associated resources making the next models. Phew!
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Add to this how third parties with locations desiring chargers may find it lucrative to have Tesla superchargers installed to take advantage of the software side, directing customers to their stores. Mostly because the Tesla chargers are probably the most cost-effective way to bring a charging station online.
Besides, it isn't as if Tesla is leveraging the charging network for a significant share of their profits. They seem to want only enough to maintain and continue to expand the network. Others building networks isn't going to cut into Tesla's bottom line.
All current gas stations will have to migrate to charging stations to remain relevant. I find it entirely likely that these stations will not limit themselves to offering only a single charging network. (the old branded gas model) There is no reason for them not to have chargers from multiple networks in order to have more charging apps bringing in customers in the hope they will wander into the store and buy something while charging.
All of which is good for Tesla and the mission.
HODL, we are on the cusp of Jack popping out of the box as the exponential growth curve steepens for BEVs.
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Reliability and the cost are the keys. Tesla has demonstrated both. I doubt it will be much harder for Tesla to get large hosting agreements.
Perry, OK already has SCs and third party chargers. It's too bad the convenience store is such a dirty dive and also Love's opened up a brand new stop across the street. It pretty much screams "Drive an electric car and you have to use third class facilities".
Ugh, that one is gross. The bathrooms feel like you are going into a Saw movie.
I'm also in the camp that I don't think Tesla is not putting good cells into use. Could just be dummy cells for structural purposes however I still feel like the weight should be reduced just for efficiency purposes.Tesla's website is not the final word (they've been slow to update before -- we'll have to wait for a 3rd-party weigh-in to know). I see also that top speed and acceleration are decreased. I don't know if that was the case with the previous S/X 60/75 KWh software-locked offering. Does anybody remember if the 75 was quicker/faster than the 60? Perhaps @MP3Mike
IMO, it's less likely that Tesla gives away Japanese battery cells. Why not just drop the price into the IRA eligibility range since Japan-sourced cells qualify now? Twitter quick-draw artist Sawyer Merrit doesn't provide actual evidence that the new battery isn't LFP: note that you'd expect ~20% less range and the same vehicle weight vs. a Panasonic NCA 18650 pack. LFP advantages would be 0-100% safe DOD range, plus longer lifecycle. That's very attractive with today's more densely spaced SuperCharger network. LFP would also support V2H integration with the forthcoming LFP powerwall.
Given that Tesla doesn't plan to offer to 'unlock' battery rge in the future lends credence to this being a physically different pack, possible based on LFP cells (which are now much cheaper and abundant from China). If that's the case, getting the std rge Model X base price below $80K to qualify for the IRA rebate wouldn't actually matter due to bty sourcing rules.
That alone might explain the $88K price tag for the std rge Model X. But is LFP $10K less than a Panasonic pack? $75*80 = ~$6K for an LFP pack, whereas the LR pack might be about $125*98 = ~$12K. So perhaps not quite $10K cheaper in the pack, but it's in the right neighborhood, esp. if Tesla wants to increase S/X production (a 3rd shift?) w/o needing to invest more capital in end-of-development pack production lines.
At any rate, never a dull day in Teslandia, wot?
Cheers!
Sometimes these offering are there to get people to put a model S into cart just so they can talk themselves into the long rang.
GrandEnigma
Member
The Sheetz/Wawa locations on the East coast are by far the best Supercharger setups. I have been to so many over the years that are in business parks or other areas that have either no amenities or everything is closed.
Ha, I knew exactly which Supercharger you were talking about without even looking at a map.
Surprised I haven't seen these photos posted yet:
bkp_duke
Well-Known Member
Surprised I haven't see this posted here yet.
Another NACS convert.
www.teslarati.com
Another NACS convert.
Fisker becomes latest to adopt Tesla NACS connector
Fisker announced today that it will be the latest automaker to adopt Tesla's North American Charging Standard (NACS), giving its customers access to the company's Supercharging Network in 2025.
www.teslarati.com
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Still holding out hope for the laser beam to clean the windshield!
Fisker to add Tesla's EV charging connector by 2025
A plethora of automakers, including Ford Motor and General Motors, are moving away from the standard Combined Charging System (CCS) connector to Tesla's previously proprietary charging design, which is set to dominate the industry. Fisker said its vehicles made 2025 onwards will have the NACS...
The real question is "Is Fisker gonna be bankrupt again by 2025?"
So, you're right that the refresh took much too long. I think sales are now getting very close to pre-refresh highs though, at almost 20,000 cars per quarter.
That being said, this is a bit off topic...but I'm confused about several of the other details of what you said and I was hoping for clarification.
What do you mean by "dirty wheels" on the Model S preventing you from ordering? It looks like the wheel options on the S are now both dark-ish grey -- is "dirty wheels" some sort of insulting slang you use for wheels that aren't shiny/chrome? Sorry if this is a common thing...I've just never heard it before. Or perhaps you mean something entirely different.
You also said "black trim" prevents your ordering -- I guess that would follow with my interpretation about the wheels above -- shiny/chrome is on your list of must-haves?
When you said: "combine that with pricing at over $100,000, which is overpriced" -- even before the new Standard Range, the Model S Long-Range list price starts at $88,490...so even adding in the red paint and big wheels and the white interior, it only comes to $97,990 (not "over $100,000"). Adding Autopilot or FSD options would push it over $100K...so did you mean that even with options added on, no Model S should be over $100K? Or are you looking at only the Plaid for $108,490? Not even sure what the price comparisons are for the Plaid -- the whole point of the Plaid is the performance numbers, and I'm not sure what other new car, especially a 5-seater capable of practical family use, comes close for a similar price.
Finally, you end with: "the true price of a long range in Florida is $82,000 now, a $9500 discount." I'm not sure if the Tesla website $88,490 price for the Long Range includes the Destination Charge...but even if that brings the total list price up to $90,000, then $82,000 is still only an $8000 discount. Where does your $9,500 come from?
I've got no problem with folks criticizing Tesla or having their own taste...but when the details of the complaints seem so specific, but don't seem to make sense, I need some further explanation
.You can thank the Model 3 and Y being the culprit for refresh not reaching pre refresh highs. Ever since 3 went into volume production, S sales dropped by 40%. People who want the Tesla experience no longer have to pony up 6 figures so the competition is real. So no matter what Tesla do, the S/X near 6fig cars will remain niche. With that being said, you should look up how other 6fig sedan and sux are doing from bmw and mercedes. Tesla dominates in the US where mercedes S class only deliver 6k units a year.
LOL. Exactly. This is a fad that I hope wears out soon (wheels that look like they're covered in brake dust and cheap black trim, associated with base model cars). A neighbor of mine has 2020 black 3 that is stunning with the silver trim and wheels. I traded my white 3 of the same year in on a MSM Y with the grey wheels as I needed the extra room, but I admit, it's a fugly car. Anyhow, I guess all the cool kids want dark wheels and black trim, so as an investor, I grudgingly agree, it's probably a good idea.
Somewhat correct. Recall that the S/X used to have a 75kWh battery variant to keep the cost down. That was the most popular S/X (IIRC) because many people wanted a Tesla but they didn't want (or couldn't) pay the large battery price. When the 3 came out there was no need for the 75kWh variant. What should be done in historical graphs is to remove the 75kWh variant before graphing.
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