Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[betstarship]

There was a track day? How’d you get invited?

I am not sure, the demographics were all over the place at the event and it was 600 people - so we thought it might be a random sample, tbh

 

[RED MDL3]

I am not sure, the demographics were all over the place at the event and it was 600 people - so we thought it might be a random sample, tbh

Lucky you! Congrats

 

[Usain]

Haha, maybe there should be a *

*Unless you are on HW4 in which our roll out is not yet 100%

Cause I'm still waiting....

I'm on HW4 and I got my FSD beta a few days ago. Shouldn't be much longer for everyone else.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

This assumes people actually plug them in. A few keen people do, but most just use them as a gas car.

Statistics clearly say otherwise.

There are cases where skewed incentives get people to buy PHEVs for the incentives, but the majority are buying to plug in and get electric driving.

 

[MartinAustin]

Even if self driving works well, I'd always want a steering wheel and pedals. Will self driving be able to handle a snowy public road, or my snowy private road, where today traction control must be turned off to get up hills? Trying to drive that via touchscreen doesn't sound viable.

There will always be people who want to drive the car themselves. Those cars will be known as "sports cars"

 

[raffiniert]

There will always be people who need to drive the car themselves.

ftfy

and I call them "Europeans"

 

[Krugerrand]

Statistics clearly say otherwise.

There are cases where skewed incentives get people to buy PHEVs for the incentives, but the majority are buying to plug in and get electric driving.

Statistics don’t say otherwise for at least company vehicles. For personal use, no idea. Nobody that I recall has posted a link to any valid source.

 

[totoro722]

Statistics don’t say otherwise for at least company vehicles. For personal use, no idea. Nobody that I recall has posted a link to any valid source.

No statistics, but my experience was going from hybrid to PHEV, then to BEV. Cautious steps. Nevertheless, I bought my first Tesla after only a couple of years with a PHEV. Had to plug it in way too often to get much electric driving. My brother-in-law now drives the PHEV, and he plugs it in.

 

[dhrivnak]

Statistics don’t say otherwise for at least company vehicles. For personal use, no idea. Nobody that I recall has posted a link to any valid source.

I think the statistics do show people use plug-in hybrids as EVs as much as possible. There may be fleet exceptions but most get the majority of miles, electric. One study I saw had the Volt traveling more EV miles than the all electric LEAF. Another study in 2017 shows more EV miles logged by Chevy Volts than the Tesla Model S. In March, EV Drivers in the U.S. crossed 11 Billion total e-miles driven since 2010. - driving 1 billion of those miles in the last three months.

I come at this being both a Volt owner and now a RAV4 Prime owner. https://avt.inl.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/EVProj/eVMTMay2014.pdf Chevy Volt Owners Drive More Electric Miles Than Nissan Leaf Drivers: Why?

 

[SO16]

Statistics clearly say otherwise.

There are cases where skewed incentives get people to buy PHEVs for the incentives, but the majority are buying to plug in and get electric driving.

Study: PHEVs aren't plugged in as often as regulators assume

Early plug-in hybrid adopters likely have more access to charging, while mainstream adopters can't be assumed to plug in as often, the study concluded.

www.greencarreports.com

 

[RubberToe]

FSD should never need to be turned on or adjusted quickly, and turning it off would only need to be done quickly in the scenario where the driver is applying the brakes or steering in a manner different than what FSD would have done, and the braking / steering already automatically trigger turning off FSD. Engagements, 'casual' disengagements, and adjustments to the aggressiveness should all be in scenarios where the driver waiting second(s) to find a convenient time to focus on that part of the Dynamic Driving Task (DDT) is perfectly fine.

Turn signals, by contrast, are something used even when the human driver is in control. FSD does not care about the ergonomics of various controls, so for scenarios where "FSD does most turn signals" it wouldn't matter if there weren't even any turn signal controls. The physical controls, whether on the stalk or on the wheel, are strictly for humans, and for many scenarios (roundabouts, turns into the correct lane and then immediately merging into adjacent lanes for the next turn, etc) humans will be executing this maneuver while the steering wheel / steering yoke is rotated, and hence will have to consciously spacially locate the control and then press it, vs being able to rely entirely on muscle memory for a fixed-location stalk. Hence, there is a significant ergonomics difference, although it is still best to leave room for each human to have a personal preference which overrides even a reasonable physiology-of-a-human analysis, and perhaps have it be an option so everyone can have their preference.

Agree that it initially seems like removing the turn signal stalk could backfire, given how often and quickly it might be needed. I have noticed that when requesting various music by voice command the decoding is insanely precise and quick. I was going to say that voice commands could become as natural as using the left stalk turn signal. But voice commands need a button push, which also suffers from possibly being in a random location. They had to have thought this through, and tested it. Maybe a button-less voice command "signal left/right" will work at some point? That's affected by ambient sound levels though.

Gear stalk replacement by video screen input makes sense, with the identified manual backup above the windshield.

RT

 

[AndrewZ]

The "Yup" heard round the world!!!!

This is enormous good news.

Likely gearing up to recognize more revenue for what is and what will remain a Level 2 ADAS that requires a human in the driver's seat ready to take over at any moment.

 

[ggr]

Over two years driving without stalks, took me almost 30 minutes to get used to the turn buttons.

Mod: enough about stalks... --ggr

Mod:

OK, the above was meant to be slightly funny but also to stop the back-and-forth about "to yoke or not to yoke, that is the question!".

Now I really mean it. Any further such will be deleted with prejudice.

Also an observation: when a participant says "I guess we will have to agree to disagree", that's really just a way to (try to) get the last word in. If you really agree to disagree, just don't reply any more. Please.

--ggr

 

[2daMoon]

If you really agree to disagree, just don't reply any more. Please.

--ggr

FWIW, I was one who typed those words and I wasn't arguing either side.

I just wanted the Yokels to STOP going on about it.

Thanks for stepping in. Help yourself to a cold one for your tireless efforts in corralling the asylum.

 

[Usain]

Likely gearing up to recognize more revenue for what is and what will remain a Level 2 ADAS that requires a human in the driver's seat ready to take over at any moment.

The next step will be hands-free driving, anywhere in North America. Nobody else offers anything close. A few more on Wall Street will start to take notice.

Then if V12 is truly end-to-end-drives-like-a-human, I expect FSD will have its "ChatGPT moment". More doubters will become believers and we are off to the races.

Elon has always predicted that we are close. But this time feels different. In Elon's live stream, FSD did new things like pull over at the destination. And it seemed to handle parking lots much better.

With the live stream and the removal of the "beta" moniker, Tesla is taking unprecedented tangible steps showing that FSD is really becoming so good that the market won't be able to ignore it much longer.

 

[ggr]

FWIW, I was one who typed those words and I wasn't arguing either side.

I just wanted the Yokels to STOP going on about it.

Thanks for stepping in. Help yourself to a cold one for your tireless efforts in corralling the asylum.

I know. I traced it back. That's why I qualified the statement with "when a participant...". There are a number of other regular participants here to whom I was addressing the advice. Sorry if you thought I was targeting you.

 

[petit_bateau]

Statistics clearly say otherwise.

There are cases where skewed incentives get people to buy PHEVs for the incentives, but the majority are buying to plug in and get electric driving.

All the statistics I've seen, and the majority of the anecdotal evidence, suggests that PHEV are seldom plugged in. Clearly there are some exceptions, but personally I think it is overdue to stop giving the benefit of the doubt. Many governments have come to the same conclusion and tapered/ended PHEV benefits and focussed them to BEVs.

Have you seen different statistics ?

Many People Aren't Plugging In Their PHEVs, According To Study

Plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) are only effective if you keep them charged. Otherwise, they're just a gas-powered hybrid with harmful emissions.

insideevs.com

Study: PHEVs aren't plugged in as often as regulators assume

Early plug-in hybrid adopters likely have more access to charging, while mainstream adopters can't be assumed to plug in as often, the study concluded.

www.greencarreports.com

PHEV drivers don't plug in so often, and EPA is adjusting to it

The EPA is adapting emissions rules to the idea that in real-world use, plug-in hybrid drivers aren't plugging in as much as assumed.

www.greencarreports.com

Thousands of UK hybrids may have never been plugged in

According to the BBC, tens of thousands of fleet hybrids may have never been used properly.

uk.motor1.com

Fleet-owned plug-in hybrids may never have been charged | Auto Express

Analysis of PHEV company cars, which were bought with subsidies, indicates drivers are running predominantly on petrol

www.autoexpress.co.uk

Why PHEV if you don’t plug it in?

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV remains popular. Many people buy plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) overseas for the subsidy but never plug them

evsandbeyond.co.nz

 

[SOULPEDL]

Tesla Semi looks even better up close!

Doesn't look like a real truck. Missing grease, smoke, bugs, and about 50 lights.
Plus, where's the CB antenna?

 

[Blue horseshoe]

All the statistics I've seen, and the majority of the anecdotal evidence, suggests that PHEV are seldom plugged in. Clearly there are some exceptions, but personally I think it is overdue to stop giving the benefit of the doubt. Many governments have come to the same conclusion and tapered/ended PHEV benefits and focussed them to BEVs.

Have you seen different statistics ?

Many People Aren't Plugging In Their PHEVs, According To Study

Plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) are only effective if you keep them charged. Otherwise, they're just a gas-powered hybrid with harmful emissions.

insideevs.com

Study: PHEVs aren't plugged in as often as regulators assume

Early plug-in hybrid adopters likely have more access to charging, while mainstream adopters can't be assumed to plug in as often, the study concluded.

www.greencarreports.com

PHEV drivers don't plug in so often, and EPA is adjusting to it

The EPA is adapting emissions rules to the idea that in real-world use, plug-in hybrid drivers aren't plugging in as much as assumed.

www.greencarreports.com

Thousands of UK hybrids may have never been plugged in

According to the BBC, tens of thousands of fleet hybrids may have never been used properly.

uk.motor1.com

Fleet-owned plug-in hybrids may never have been charged | Auto Express

Analysis of PHEV company cars, which were bought with subsidies, indicates drivers are running predominantly on petrol

www.autoexpress.co.uk

Why PHEV if you don’t plug it in?

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV remains popular. Many people buy plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) overseas for the subsidy but never plug them

evsandbeyond.co.nz

If you read the article he quoted you can see his sources are subpar. Their citation even notes they guess at volt battery use. Nowhere does it state in any of the source articles that people plug in more often than not.

 

[SOULPEDL]

All the statistics I've seen, and the majority of the anecdotal evidence, suggests that PHEV are seldom plugged in. Clearly there are some exceptions, but personally I think it is overdue to stop giving the benefit of the doubt. Many governments have come to the same conclusion and tapered/ended PHEV benefits and focussed them to BEVs.

Have you seen different statistics ?

Many People Aren't Plugging In Their PHEVs, According To Study

Plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs) are only effective if you keep them charged. Otherwise, they're just a gas-powered hybrid with harmful emissions.

insideevs.com

Study: PHEVs aren't plugged in as often as regulators assume

Early plug-in hybrid adopters likely have more access to charging, while mainstream adopters can't be assumed to plug in as often, the study concluded.

www.greencarreports.com

PHEV drivers don't plug in so often, and EPA is adjusting to it

The EPA is adapting emissions rules to the idea that in real-world use, plug-in hybrid drivers aren't plugging in as much as assumed.

www.greencarreports.com

Thousands of UK hybrids may have never been plugged in

According to the BBC, tens of thousands of fleet hybrids may have never been used properly.

uk.motor1.com

Fleet-owned plug-in hybrids may never have been charged | Auto Express

Analysis of PHEV company cars, which were bought with subsidies, indicates drivers are running predominantly on petrol

www.autoexpress.co.uk

Why PHEV if you don’t plug it in?

The Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV remains popular. Many people buy plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) overseas for the subsidy but never plug them

evsandbeyond.co.nz

And...

...particularly urban apartment/condo dwellers who commute short distances, for whom 120Vx12A would be sufficient

They don't have outlets in most apartment parking lots - around here anyway.
Condo's have a different problem, nothing is metered so many HOAs don't allow it. But it's changing slowly in spots.

https://www.reddit.com/r/askportland/comments/1037blg