Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Cosmacelf]

Funding Secured!

Just got a check in the mail for my "share of the Fair Fund established by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission in Elon Musk, Civil Action No. 1:18-cv-8865-(LJL) and Tesla, Inc., Civil Action No. 1:18-cv-8947-(LJL)."

I hadn't heard a peep about this since I put in my claim over a year ago. Suddenly, a check!

Of the amount that I lost that was eligible for a claim, I'm recovering about half. I lost a bunch more that wasn't eligible for a claim because rather than buying shares I traded some shares for calls. Seemed like a good idea at the time.

My post from last June describing how this was supposed to work is #344,744. It's been only five years or so since the SEC screwed us over. And TSLA is up about 10x. Glad to get something back. And, of course, I keep in mind that if things went the way Elon expected at the time, we'd all be out of the company's stock because it would be private.

Any suggestions on how to put this $34,677.94 to use? I'm tempted to try the long shot -- 10 Jan 2026, 510 calls. Or I could just get about 136 shares. Or I could earmark it for buying an Optimus when it finally appears in a few years?

Awesome, I can't wait for my check! We'll have to see whose ... check ... is bigger.

 

[GhostSkater]

Interesting but in one respect not really correct:
"Another way to look at it is that when you need the power, you need to spin a motor really fast because that is where it's most efficient and can make the most power,"
An electric motor is not more efficient at higher rotation speeds:
"By inserting resistance into the rotor circuit and varying the resistance, it is possible to obtain the maximum torque at any desired slip or speed."

Yes and also no, first that the Semi motor isn't induction, second, yes, you can have peak torque at almost any speed other than once you get into the field weakening region, which means you are spinning the motor faster than what you system voltage would allow using some black magic that manipulates the shape and phase of the magnetic field in relation to the rotor, but you can't have any power at any rpm, you can have the same power for various torque/rpm combinations as long both are within the motor operating range

But what is wrong is that torque is not power, power is torque * rpm. Let's use a Model 3 motor efficiency map and the Semi 80 kW power needed to cruise a flat road at 55 mph as an example since the Plaid motors efficiency curve is likely similar if not better

There are infinite rpm/torque points that achieve 80 kW of power, some examples and it's efficiency

1000 rpm and 760 N.m - Outside of the rated range and operating sub 70% efficiency
2000 rpm and 381 N.m - ~75% efficiency
4000 rpm and 190 N.m - 92% efficiency

And so on. Now to the peak power:
1000 rpm and 475 N.m - 49 kW
2000 rpm and 475 N.m - 98 kW
4000 rpm and 475 N.m - 196 kW

This is just to show that if you need more power, you need to spin the motor faster, up to a point

I went back and counted the gear sizes from the Semi unveil video, and the ratios are as follow

Acceleration drive units: ~18:1
Highway drive unit: ~12.5:1

So at 55 mph and 80 kW, the highway drive unit motor spins at 5500 rpm and 138 N.m, operating at 94% efficiency, and at 70 mph and 125 kW, 7000 rpm and 170 N.m, operating at 95% efficiency

Power numbers from here https://www.motormatchup.com/efficiency?id=607714741f6c21a772fbf034

So if you want power to climb a big hill, you need a gear ratio that puts the motor at or close to the maximum peak power point, in the case of the Model 3 motor from the plot bellow, it would be anywhere from 5500 rpm to 18000 rpm and the respective peak torque. Keep in mind there is other loses to take into account when setting a gear ratio, bearings, gears and so on that quickly adds up, so the optimum point will be narrower than those rpm ranges

In the Semi case, the acceleration drive units spin at 8000 and 10000 rpm for 55 and 70 mph respectively

 

[cusetownusa]

Not sure if this has already been discussed here or not. Thought this was some interesting speculation on the cybertruck weight.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1709361615332909327

The math (his math looks wrong but thought the smart people here could figure this out)

Semi Tractor: 10k pounds
“NextGen” Car Hauler: 43k pounds
Total = 53k pounds → leaving 27k pounds (80k max minus 53k) for cargo.

There are 5 cybertruck on the hauler.

27k/5 = 5,400 lbs max per cybertruck.

Seems low so the above assumptions may be off.

 

[Tim S]

Funding Secured!

Just got a check in the mail for my "share of the Fair Fund established by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission in Elon Musk, Civil Action No. 1:18-cv-8865-(LJL) and Tesla, Inc., Civil Action No. 1:18-cv-8947-(LJL)."

I hadn't heard a peep about this since I put in my claim over a year ago. Suddenly, a check!

Of the amount that I lost that was eligible for a claim, I'm recovering about half. I lost a bunch more that wasn't eligible for a claim because rather than buying shares I traded some shares for calls. Seemed like a good idea at the time.

My post from last June describing how this was supposed to work is #344,744. It's been only five years or so since the SEC screwed us over. And TSLA is up about 10x. Glad to get something back. And, of course, I keep in mind that if things went the way Elon expected at the time, we'd all be out of the company's stock because it would be private.

Any suggestions on how to put this $34,677.94 to use? I'm tempted to try the long shot -- 10 Jan 2026, 510 calls. Or I could just get about 136 shares. Or I could earmark it for buying an Optimus when it finally appears in a few years?

FYI I got my share of Elon's $40M fine in the mail yesterday also. Mine was only about 6 shares worth.

 

[Tony73]

You’re assuming Tesla wants to stay in that market. Here’s my unpopular opinion I’ve stated for years; Tesla doesn’t want to be in that market and will move out of it for all intents and purposes because it no longer serves the mission. We’re way past proof of concept. We’re now trying for widespread affordability.

By that logic, why not officially cancel the roadster and give reservation holders their money back ?

 

[2daMoon]

By that logic, why not cancel the roadster ?

What Roadster?

 

[Favguy]

As I wrote before, the last rework of the S was an unforced error. Not only was it delayed months, but it moved the long range away from its market. Black trim is fine for the hot rod to differentiate it, but look at the Long Range’s competition. Almost all bright with considerably more options. If Tesla is going to stay in the upscale market ,they need to move to the market. I know never a popular opinion around here.

As a "Brit" there is no Tesla model to suit me anymore, it's a shame. Doesn't look like we are ever going to get the Roadster in RHD form, which is what I'd really want, or the current S as a RHD either. This is really annoying! I'm just not into the other "everyman" family 3/Y models either, so I'm going traitor and I've ordered one of these for delivery next year.

I'll not be selling any more TSLA though, until we're over at least $500!

Don't all hate me too much will you.

 

[kanweg]

Brits longing for an S or roadster should think outside the box: change the roads. Has there ever been a better reason?

I should have kept this for a red day but my memory is bad so here it is. I’m still waiting for the terrible music, but imagine having invested in Workhorse in Februari 2021 at $40 and hodling it at almost $0.40.

 

[Krugerrand]

By that logic, why not officially cancel the roadster and give reservation holders their money back ?

Roadster is completely different. It’s an unadulterated fun car of ’how far can the boundaries be pushed’. And it’s low enough volume they can be made by hand. Not comparable to S or X market in any way, shape, or form.

But wait for it (pushed out for many more years or cancelled)…

 

[Tony73]

Roadster is completely different. It’s an unadulterated fun car of ’how far can the boundaries be pushed’. And it’s low enough volume they can be made by hand. Not comparable to S or X market in any way, shape, or form.

But wait for it (pushed out for many more years or cancelled)…

How does it further “widespread affordability” ? You are contradicting yourself

 

[JupiterMan]

Whining Brits longing for an S or roadster should think outside the box: change the roads.

a RHD Cybertruck towing a RHD Roadster is more likely.

 

[Captkerosene]

I honestly feel that Tesla should rapid flash the brake lights anytime the vehicle stops rapidly, ie stops above a threshold like ~0.75 G's or so. Since they're computers on wheels, safety features like that are trivial. Reducing the odds of a rear-end due to a sudden stop by enhanced visibility seems like a no brainer to me.

Seems like a good idea. Maybe add a rear-facing horn as well. I'd guess that most rear end accidents are caused by the trailing car not watching closely. Why not have a horn that activates automatically when a car is approaching dangerously fast? Tesla might actually have the data to know if it makes economic sense to do something like that. Another possibility is an external airbag. When AI becomes good enough to keep from whacking pedestrians and bicyclists with inflating fenders it might be feasible.

 

[Favguy]

Whining Brits longing for an S or roadster should think outside the box: change the roads.

I should have kept this for a red day but my memory is bad so here it is. I’m still waiting for the terrible music, but imagine having invested in Workhorse in Februari 2021 at $40 and hodling it at almost $0.40.

Our useless government can't even manage to upgrade a railway line, I dread to think of the carnage if we were to switch over to driving on the right!

 

[RubberToe]

SELL SELL SELL!!!!!

GM delivered 18 EV Silverado pickups in Q3

Wasn't it Paul Revere who said, "The competition is coming, the competition is coming"... oh, wait, that's not what he said.

I guess it was GJ and Toilet Boy who said that, wasn't it?

Edit: noting how in all actuality Tesla is yet to deliver a CT, but still...

Someone should start a poll to guess when:
1) A stop work order is issued to check for "quality issues" on the production line
2) A recall of the 18 pickups is ordered to address "battery issues"
3) An e-mail is sent to owners stating to "not park near anything flammable" due to items #1 and #2 above
4) An e-mail is sent notifying owners to not charge below 40% or above 60% due to items #1, #2 and #3 above
5) Each vehicle comes with dual foaming heavy duty fire extinguishers in the truck bed

RT

P.S. A special prize will be awarded to all participants if all 5 happen before the end of the calendar year!

 

[rallykeeper]

Awesome, I can't wait for my check! We'll have to see whose ... check ... is bigger.

A real badge of honor.

Who believed the tweet with the most buy conviction?

(I'm personally getting a large check too -- seems like a lot of us were trigger happy).

 

[aronth5]

Regardless, the stalkless design is terrible, especially for overseas markets, and RHD markets suffered as a result--no RHD MS/MX's. Tesla was saved by the fact that the M3/MY sales so overwhelm the MS/MX sales overall, but with Highland coming soon, well, let us all hope that the negatives are greatly outweighed by the positives with that refresh . . . .

The real question is can we keep these sorts of self-induced errors to a minimum going forward? And can poor choices be corrected quickly?

(And one must ask, "Just how much do stalks on the steering column actually cost for Pete's sake?!?")

Can we stop with the "stalkless" statement. Removing the right stalk is a no brainer so it's really just a conversation about the left stalk.

 

[Captkerosene]

I get the feeling that Tesla has struggled to hire enough qualified workers in EU and US at all their factories. Maybe that's why ramping has been slow and no RHD S/X. Hopefully Optimus will soon start to replace 3 workers each and these workers can move around to other parts of their production and production will ramp. With Optimus costs will also go down and this can be passed on to the consumers again increasing the demand and killing the competition even more and more importantly improves how fast they can ramp.

The winner in EVs will be determined by who wins in AI and robotics. Right now BYD is growing fast because they have a competitive advantage in their workforce. Their CEO has said that they need to automate (eliminate) 600K jobs in the future. I prefer the term automation over "AI and robotics" when explaining Tesla to people because it doesn't cause their heads to explode. Also, we could offer our robots to our suppliers early in the Bot rollout to further reduce our production costs.

 

[15Peter20]

Two things I would very much like to own:

 

[Marc_K_inNJ]

FYI I got my share of Elon's $40M fine in the mail yesterday also. Mine was only about 6 shares worth.

All these checks arriving… explains why the SP is up…

 

[Featsbeyond50]

As a "Brit" there is no Tesla model to suit me anymore, it's a shame. Doesn't look like we are ever going to get the Roadster in RHD form, which is what I'd really want, or the current S as a RHD either. This is really annoying! I'm just not into the other "everyman" family 3/Y models either, so I'm going traitor and I've ordered one of these for delivery next year.

I'll not be selling any more TSLA though, until we're over at least $500!

Don't all hate me too much will you.

View attachment 979569

Can't blame you, that's a beauty.
Love the way MG took advantage of Tesla losing interest in the Roadster and they doubled-up by stealing the "cyber" name.