You don't know that, and I am one data point saying you are very wrong.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
lafrisbee
Active Member
yeha, just when that activity is set in stone they manage a new strategy for a few eeks.Max Pain is $212.50. Would be a nice 3% bump to finish the week!
...If only there were market 'influencers' who cared enough about hitting that target...
/S
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
I like the small price increase on Model Ys. A warning to buyers that prices don't drop forever...and to stop putting off their Tesla purchase. And giving them a chance to get in before prices (hopefully, from an investor perspective) go up more significantly.
With other OEMs now dialing down their EV production, maybe demand for Teslas has gone up some.
I don't want Teslas to be expensive for the consumer, but the margin drops have hurt our portfolios, so from an investor perspective price increases sure make me feel better...
With other OEMs now dialing down their EV production, maybe demand for Teslas has gone up some.
I don't want Teslas to be expensive for the consumer, but the margin drops have hurt our portfolios, so from an investor perspective price increases sure make me feel better...
Gigapress
Trying to be less wrong
As a matter of fact we can know that with pretty high confidence, because the peak of actual ASPs never got close to the peak list prices.
How can one person paying the higher prices prove that he is very wrong that "Barely anyone actually bought a Y at those prices"?
I took delivery of my Model Y when the prices were that high, but my order was from more than a year earlier and was at the basically the bottom of the price. (So, I guess my one data point says he is right on.)
Well teslas max asp is 58k and now it's 45k. However Teslas historic asp was around 51-53k before the massive price hysteria.
So when you apply interest rates of 2% @53k asp vs 45k asp of 7% you have a similar payment.
What the heck, no impact to Tesla repairs, only the non-Tesla's sit for parts? Shooting their foot while frustrating non-Tesla owners? Seems like it would hurt Union workers and ICE (or other non-Tesla) customers much more than Tesla. I assume these are existing Collision shops in Sweden also doing Tesla's on the side, likely certified by Tesla? There's a shop in Tempe Az that started this way and now doing primarily Tesla's. But it is not Tesla and the shop is entirely grateful for all the Tesla business $$$!
So IDK if we're talking the same here in Sweden. If it is a body shop, and there's enough volume, the solution could be to dedicate shops as Tesla SC. But the outlying areas may have to drive far for body service and sounds like you don't want to piss off the union here.
Also, it seems like Tesla was eluding to using Replacement workers for strikers from outside the country. It was shot down at the end of the story, while Tesla's like "We'll get back to you." Sounds like Tesla is looking for a loophole or a plan B vs coming to some agreement (which could set precedence). I don't know what conditions they are objecting, that's still not clear or I missed it.
Yes we do. The peak prices came with a huge order backlog, so when the peak prices were in effect, the orders being fulfilled were those that had been created months prior at lower prices. Then when the high price orders were about to be fulfilled, the list prices dropped, leading to the order price drop. So ASP was always far lower than peak prices
Seems Intel Corp came out OK. Earnings were a beat, costs controlled. (Listening to the update now live). INTC Stock went up accordingly.
The same did not happen for Meta earlier this week. Is this because Wallstreet has favorites?
The same did not happen for Meta earlier this week. Is this because Wallstreet has favorites?
Intel's data center operating margin was positive and it hasn't been for a few quarters since competition caused them drop margins from mid 60s to now mid 40s. The bleeding essentially stopped, but that doesn't mean much and I expect some dump after the short squeeze is over.
After the last few years, the bio and everything, I simply don't trust 100% the concept that Elon has of "the right thing".
Elon is an outstanding CEO, but I do think he makes more mistakes in the "human side" than the engineering side.
Am I the only one seeing lots of weird little price spikes both up and down since 8;30 EST this morning?? 8 of them so far.
They usually only show up very rarely...
They usually only show up very rarely...
Did you try unplugging and plugging it in again?
(It just appears spiky overall, yesterday too, no clear direction.)
Waiting4M3
Active Member
Elon might've been referring to this from Sam Korus, I suspect Sam used 2019 prices when MY configurator opened up
MartinAustin
Active Member
When we used to go to fill up with gasoline, did we know who made the gas dispensers?
This is truly the USB Interface moment for Tesla. Other manufacturers want to use and sell Tesla's product for them.
I was still frustrated about this as recently as the beginning of this year... not a single (significant) manufacturer had decided to use Superchargers. Tesla really needed this affirmation years ago whem they were losing money, but never got it. Now they have a fortress balance sheet and a solid future - of their own making - so they don't need anyone else to use Superchargers, but the tsunami of NACS adoption is still vindication that a) the design+capability was always the best and b) the installation+deployment cost was always the best.
MartinAustin
Active Member
It's not a bad plan (to lease). In 2yrs, interest rates will be down to a more reasonable level. And the car on sale in October 2025 will probably be a little better.
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KBF
Model X owner (formerly Cdn Signature Model S)
Thanks for the summary. One thing I don't understand re: IF Metall- does Tesla care that they're blocking spare parts for non-Tesla cars? They have a revenue-neutral service policy, and why would they even want to touch non-Tesla vehicle? Apple Stores don't repair Windows computers, and have zero need to.There is a lot of discussion in Sweden regarding the IF Metal union starting a strike against Tesla. Tesla are ignoring the common practices in Sweden(not illegal, but against common practice in Sweden). The unions in Sweden are very influential and have not lost any fight before(they defeated Toys R US for example after a very messy fight with people standing outside the stores heckling customers etc) and are escalating the fight to ask other companies to block Tesla, for example logistics companies will stop delivering Tesla cars. Tesla have asked employees if they intend to go to work, which some argue is illegal to do in Sweden(you are not allowed to ask if they are part of a union).
Since the unions are used to getting their ways they act very surprised that Tesla are not seeing how beneficial it would be for Tesla to just obey them. Tesla have not bent to the German unions yet so we will see if Sweden will be the first country to force unions onto Tesla and if not how much the Swedish unions will escalate the fight.
This video is in Swedish but you can turn on english subtitiles:
A summary of the video:
- 00:00:00 In this section of the video, Peter Esse discusses the upcoming strike by the IF Metall union at Tesla's service center in Malmö. The strike is a result of Tesla's refusal to write collective agreements with the union. Esse explains that when a union gives notice of a strike, its members simply stop working, and if a company does not want to sign collective agreements, it is the first action taken by the union. However, in this case, Tesla has not even been involved in the bargaining process. Some people in the Tesla community believe the collective agreement is great, while others think it's awful. Regardless, collective agreements are important in the Swedish model, as they have benefited both employers and employees and have led to a record low number of conflicts in the labor market. Esse notes that when the strike happens, unfamiliar employees may be called in to replace the striking staff, but it is not legal to break a strike by replacing striking staff with others.
- 00:05:00 In this section, it is revealed that Tesla, the American electric car company, is planning to strike-break in Sweden by bringing in temporary workers to replace strikers who are on strike for better working conditions. Tesla has been accused of not having a good understanding of the Swedish labor market and not being particularly interested in acquiring the knowledge. The company has also been accused of not providing good working conditions for its employees, despite claiming to have better conditions than the average for the sector. The Union has tried to map the wages of Tesla's employees and has found that wages are not above the average for the sector. Tesla has also been accused of not having collective agreements, which reduce working hours and provide benefits to employees. This is not the first time that Tesla has been accused of poor working conditions and libertarian views. Tesla has been accused of being super-individualistic and not needing collective agreements.
- 00:10:00 In this section, the speaker discusses the negative reactions to union busting and the lack of protection for workers in companies that do not have collective agreements. The Swedish model was briefly explained, as well as the mutual respect between the parties involved and the fact that labor regulations are not as strict as in other countries. The discussion then shifted to the tactics used by unions to prevent strikebreaking, namely the use of sympathy strikes and associated blockades. The speaker went on to explain theexample of Tesla, which led to a major conflict with the United Transport Workers' Federation (IF Metall) and resulted in a change in tactics to gradually reduce the number of unionized workers and implement digitization in the picking up of Tesla cars. The trade unions then launched joint sympathy strikes against Axess Logistics and its counterparts in other ports, in an attempt to pressure the company to respect workers' rights.
- 00:15:00 In this section, we learn about a conflict between two powerful organizations, the Transport Workers' Union (IF Metall) and Tesla, over the transport of spare parts to the workshops. IF Metall is blocking the transport of spare parts, which means that Tesla's workshops cannot repair other cars except those that are Tesla's. This can escalate the conflict and lead to a sympathetic strike involving other unions, such as the Swedish Civil Servants' Union (Unionen), which can lead to the administration and payroll running. The conflict can have ripple effects in other countries, including Germany where Tesla produces its Tesla Model Y, and the US where there is a major car strike. Tesla, on the other hand, is a company that does not give up easily and will not allow lose to occur. The strategy of strikebreaking can be seen as an ugly tactic that can harm the civil services spirit of the other unions. The conflict can also increase the power struggles between the unions in Sweden, where the Swedish model is being threatened. The fight over Tesla's market share and competition is also a significant factor, as the dispute can affect future collaborations between traditional car manufacturers in Sweden and Tesla or other electric vehicle manufacturers. Overall, the conflict between the two organizations is a complex and significant issue that can have far-reaching consequences.
An article with some quotes from Tesla:
Tesla planerar för omfattande strejkbryteri
Dagens Arbete kan avslöja att Teslas Norden-chef Kim Jensen säger att han ska ta in strejkbrytare om konflikten bryter ut.da-se.translate.goog
It seems as though the unions have no clue about Tesla's business model, either, so a clash of cultural ignorances on both sides....
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
It seems more effective to phrase this,
"... but Wall Street's misinterpretation of Tesla's margin drops have hurt our portfolios"
For anyone who takes the time to understand Tesla, including the Wall Street analysts who actually look at Tesla's data and compare it to peers in the industry, the company has experienced incredible growth, and has further growth potential. The current value of the stock does not reflect the impact of Tesla's diverse and well-considered planning which will bring more achievements and accolades for Tesla in both the near and far future.
Bottom line, nothing that Tesla might say or do will have any effect on most of Wall Street's revered talking heads, whether working for an investment firm, or in the media. They have become accustomed to making fast decisions based upon sound bites, and/or creating sound bites themselves, all the while unable to realize their own short-comings in analytical prowess. Their concern seems to focus more on getting attention than it does on being good at their jobs. Because they have been rewarded time and time again for getting noticed, this has been what they work on most. And the others not getting noticed work harder to imitate those who seem to be entertainers rather than analysts of any value.
I won't be holding my breath waiting for this odd motivation to change as the "look at me" culture is deeply entrenched and the endorphin rush is real, for those who participate. It is an addiction, which like most other addictions leads to reduced mental performance overall.
Regardless, Tesla marches on. Avoiding getting caught up in it, and, leveraging this effect to their advantage when they can. Elon's penchant for memes is an example of using this. Because of this environment, these tactics are effective in getting Tesla attention. It has been said that there is no such thing as bad publicity, this plays to Tesla's strengths over the long run.
It seems to me that Tesla should continue to adjust pricing as they have been doing it, because it works for furthering their lead. Even if it seems to have a negative affect on the stock, that is temporary. Tesla's future is bright and a path of growth is clear, and this will result in more permanent change. It is inevitable that the stock will follow suit.
We are already seeing a few changes in the form of growing positive analysis and reporting where it wasn't before. I have every expectation that this is a trend as people witness "the competition" they have been expecting to bring viable alternative choices continue to falter and fail.
HODL
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That makes no sense. How else would you break a strike? It, also, seems to conflict with the rest of your summary that mentions strike breaking as something Tesla can do.
That would mean the union has 100% of the power and could force anything they want, or put the company out of business.
While I generally have a bad opinion of unions, at least in the US, I'm not 100% against them either. (I am a member of one.) But sometimes they go way off the rails.
Are you sure their demands are 100% reasonable? What if they were like the UAW's where they were asking for 40%+ pay raise, working 20% fewer hours, etc.? Sure, technically Tesla could afford that, but if they gave in on something like that it would just end up with every group asking for even more next time.
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