dhanson865
Well-Known Member
First drone pic of a Cybertruck with a Monroney Sticker (everyone told him the correct name)
Still no closeup of the sticker.
Still no closeup of the sticker.
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Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
It does make sense based on hand/ steering wheel movement in videos. Plus:
Normal China production, red = brake, blue = steering pass through
Cybertruck: red = brake, blue ? = pass-through, either they combined a lot of stuff (efficient) or there isn't a steering shaft. I haven't seen a low enough interior shot to tell for sure... They could also have an intermediate motor+gear box which allows variable ratio steering and mechanical redundancy.
Investor Engineering Discussions
(Bc it is Saturday). There are two major hurdles If you try to get a patent granted.
1. The first is Novelty. If there is a publication that discloses all the measures of the first claim, that claim is not New and hence not patentable (at least not without further limitation).
2. If the first) claim (perhaps after amendment) is New be cause it is new with respect to any prior art by at least one measure (part/step/condition) in the claim, the second hurdle to overcome is Inventive step. The (too) short gist is that the Examiner looks for a second publication that contains the measure(s) missing in the closest prior art and argues why the ordinary person skilled in the art would combine these publications. In Europe there is a fairly rigorous (and hence less subjective) method to do so. For the US I’ve never quite understood how it worked, even after three decades (and now I no longer need to), but in my experience even the US patent attorney I preferably used (who stood out with respect to others) could still have a tough time getting things granted. Some fields may be easier than others.
For Tesla’s patent applications I’ve seen ones where I didn’t have to look at the search report to know the first claim wasn’t new, which a look at the Search report confirmed. That is bad drafting. I noticed various other bad issues as well, such as dependent claims with a single value instead of a range.
Yep and a bad patent is worse than no patent, just leads you into litigation. Litigation can be costly - the process and penalties. It's not up to the patent office to be correct, it is up to the entity with the patent.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
The competition is... oh, wait, THEY have a demand problem and Tesla does not.
Herbert, Tom Nash, and others discuss the FUD and the lack of facts in the "demand problem" story circulating in the popular media.
And, do it in about a quarter of the length of a normal Brighter with Herbert episode.
This is an easy to understand explanation that can be shared, saving one from having to explain over and over to people how to evaluate the claims and corroborate with facts.
Herbert, Tom Nash, and others discuss the FUD and the lack of facts in the "demand problem" story circulating in the popular media.
And, do it in about a quarter of the length of a normal Brighter with Herbert episode.
This is an easy to understand explanation that can be shared, saving one from having to explain over and over to people how to evaluate the claims and corroborate with facts.
Words of HABIT
Active Member
Seriously?
Which one of you here is behind this? @Krugerrand is prime suspect. After detailed analysis we can rule out @SOULPEDL and @Unpilot
dhrivnak
Active Member
While most do not tow every week I have yet to meet a pickup owner who never tows. Heck I tow with my Model 3
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Like I said, from my own personal experience, it's not at all hard to get a patent granted. It just takes time and money.
My question was, do you have any actual evidence that Tesla's patent lawyers are doing a bad job? Are they getting rejected at a higher than normal rate?
Yeah. The patents don't actually have to be good or useful. The strategy for many companies is to just file a lot of patents for defensive purposes. It's the threat of litigation that companies are after. If you sue me for patent infringement then I'm going to go through my library of patents and find one that you violated. Then I file a counter-suit and nobody wins. Mutually assured destruction. This is why Tesla has no problem open sourcing their patents. They aren't being magnanimous. Tesla wants others to use their patents so that they have ammunition in case of a lawsuit. (Tesla's patents are free to use as long as you never sue Tesla)
But mutually assured destruction doesn't work against patent trolls, whose entire business model is to buy up patents and sue companies for violations.
IMO, the whole patent office should be shut down and patents should be abolished. Patents only benefit the lawyers and the trolls. To innovative companies like Tesla, patents are nothing more than a business expense with no actual benefit. But I guess we are getting way off topic here.
Buckminster
Well-Known Member
In 14 venues so far . Waiting for CT to show up at Tyson’s mall ..
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Weird- I know TONS of em. The only use they get out of the truck part of their truck is tossing their kids soccer/hockey/whatever stuff in the bed.
But again anecdotes are not data- the data we DO have suggest 3/4 tow basically never, and near that figure (70%) go off-road basically never....and even about 1/3rd use the bed basically never.
Similar deal with people who drive SUVs that could have been station wagons.
Can confirm-- while I was at IBM they offered cash bonuses for all employees who got patents approved (signing them to IBM when doing so)- they didn't care what the patent was and lots of people got lots of useless patents-- it's why IBM for years had the most of any company each year.
Do we know BYD numbers?
I suspect the problem with BYD is the same as with legacy auto, they don't separate out BEV numbers. ICE, PHEV, BEV is all jumbled together.
FWIW, IBM's largesse helped me fund my first Musk company investments. They spent years trying to preserve their status as "the safest choice, No BOD would criticize an IBM choice" that positioning was enhanced strongly by the patenting bonanza, at which some became very prolific.
We all should hope that TSLA never finds it wise to position itself as innovative without serious desire to BE innovative. AI chess playing is a stellar example. TSLA displays Optimus, makes Gigapresses work, nears FSD and misses goals. Only those who have goals can afford to miss them.
It once was a point of pride to be associated with IBM, a long time ago.
Now we have a handful of warning signs to watch for with TSLA. Were any of those appear we'd know the end of our glorious wild ride would be nigh.
It seems they're not, and even the patenting approach seems prudent and 'mostly harmless'.
if you create a new thread I’ll fight you over that, with examples from my own practice that show the opposite. eg a small company would have never been able to get a contract with a huge customer and would have his lunch eaten by big competitors who supplied that customer. A second reason is that in my work I have more than once understood the invention better than the inventor and some have benefitted from that.
I may agree where it comes to patents on software and AI (and business, if that is still/again a thing in the US).
We are at the opposite end of the spectrum. Probably 3/4 of the kilometres on our 2022 model Y have been towing a small teardrop trailer. We are very interested in the Cybertruck and its principal job will be towing.
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