Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Orbit]

Because "secured" is a term of art in SEC land, implying various conditions have been met (like a signed contract). Elon was likely unaware of those technicalities when he posted, using "secured" as an ordinary English word.

In any case, he could have easily gotten the money from several different sources, so there wasn't any intent to deceive anybody.

I didn’t argue that Elon tried to deceive anyone.
I argued that it was not true to call it “secured”, and that is a pattern of risk taking by him, which has a mix of consequences, some of which are negative and some are positive.

What would an ordinary person think if the CEO of a company puts into writing that funding to take their company private is “secured”?
It doesn’t mean “I can make some phone calls and put things other”,
It means “a formal agreement is in place for funding.”

Elon thought his handshake deal with the Saudis was good, then they pulled out, because it wasn’t secured.

 

[Bet TSLA]

It means “a formal agreement is in place for funding.”

Really? Are you sure? I think you haven't any better idea than anyone who isn't a securities lawyer. You are leaving out a ton of things that are probably necessary for the funding to truly be secured. It probably needs to be in escrow, or guaranteed by a third party or something like that.

But, in any case, nobody tweets things that adhere to formal legal standards. I'm sure we can agree that tweeting about this sort of thing was foolish, but the resulting chaos was just nonsensical. Musk meant what he said and the buyout didn't happen for completely different reasons than lack of funding. Not sure what your point is other than that you apparently weren't following the events at the time and have derived your opinions from third-party sources rather than primary documents.

 

[Dikkie Dik]

57% growth in Europe, not to shabby

https://twitter.com/x/status/1743021347528216714

 

[unk45]

Don't expect 48V on the S/X. Per Lars in one of the CT videos stated you can't retrofit 48V onto an older car. Literally have redesign all sub systems, Might as well go new platform.

Yes, and a new large car platform could acconodate numerous variants. Sometime…

 

[Orbit]

Really? Are you sure? I think you haven't any better idea than anyone who isn't a securities lawyer. You are leaving out a ton of things that are probably necessary for the funding to truly be secured. It probably needs to be in escrow, or guaranteed by a third party or something like that.

Yes I’m sure because I qualify as a the kind of person that my hypothetical set up.

Also the judge ruled that the statement was false.

But, in any case, nobody tweets things that adhere to formal legal standards. I'm sure we can agree that tweeting about this sort of thing was foolish, but the resulting chaos was just nonsensical.

Yes. And, the lack of any reaction to other things is also nonsensical.

Musk meant what he said and the buyout didn't happen for completely different reasons than lack of funding.

Really? For what reason? I think he backed off about 2 weeks after his announced it. Lack of funding seems very plausible.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Bots that can't even move that fast right now.

Your short-sightedness is an opportunity others will appreciate, right now.

 

[Artful Dodger]

And where does Tesla get the data from this advanced FSD....that is training the bots? From cars, that use batteries, that used advanced chemistry to create better energy density....it's.all.about.energy.

Energy is necessary but not sufficient. Otherwise, Saudi Aramco would be an AI company. They have energy, but specialize in converting it to entropy. Telsa converts energy into intelligence. It's all about working smart.

 

[FrANce]

To be clear, when I was talking about an anticlimactic year I was talking about Europe as a whole.
See the numbers:

Wiki - Tesla Europe Registration Stats

This wiki belongs to the thread EU Market situation and outlook. Click HERE (CTRL-click to open in new tab) to add new data using a Google form. Any forum member can contribute. We encourage you to do so! Your entry will appear after the data is double-checked by other volunteers. If the data...

teslamotorsclub.com

Germany is more than anticlimactic: it's disappointing.

View attachment 1005777

In France, the deliveries increased 119% YOY (from today's newsletter of France's Tesla Owners Club by author Bertrand Moreau). According to the author, Tesla sold more cars in France in 2023 than Ford, Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes or Audi. More details and data here

 

[Artful Dodger]

Funding absolutely WAS secured. You not knowing that and continuing to pass along a made up bs lie means YOU are part of the problem that Elon has to face every day.

Indeed, "Funding secured" was decided in favor of Elon Musk by a jury in a U.S. Court during the civil lawsuit in Feb 2023. The SEC claim, on the other hand, was never decided by a judge. Instead, a stettlement with the SEC was forced on Musk (under duress by banksters) which he is now working to undo.

It is FALSE to claim that 'funding wasn't secured', and is repeated most loudly on internet forums, on X by TSLAQ, and of course also by roto-REUTERS.

MUSK WINS! Jury Clears Elon Musk of Wrongdoing in 2018 Tweets! | Dr Know (Feb 03, 2023)

 

[Artful Dodger]

But I’m not wrong on this one.

The jury in the U.S. Civil trial said you are wrong: funding was secured

"The unanimous verdict, announced Friday in US District Court, ends a three-week long trial over a class-action shareholder lawsuit regarding the tweet, in which the billionaire said that he was thinking about taking Tesla private for $420 a share and had "funding secured."​

Feb 4, 2023​

Elon Musk wins lawsuit over 'funding secured' tweet

A California jury has ruled that Elon Musk is not liable for losses experienced by Tesla shareholders following his controversial "funding secured" tweet from 2018.

www.ctvnews.ca

 

[Stormy24]

Sigh, another recall.

Tesla to recall 1.6 million vehicles in China

Tesla will recall 1.62 million vehicles in China, over concerns about steering software, news agencies reported Friday, citing a government statement.

www.marketwatch.com

sorry it’s a misunderstanding it’s an update.

 

[Artful Dodger]

I thank him for that, and I despise the sort of people who employ such tactics. Those sort of people are second-cousins to those who parrot canned news without offering the back story for context. Like you have done.

It's the 'for profit' news industry; wholly-pwned by the hedge funds, who laugh at cocktail parties about the suffering that they themselves cause. Dispicable.

 

[Artful Dodger]

You can’t can you? Yet you jumped on me for “spreading misinformation”.

You made the unsubstantiated claim about what lawyer Shapiro said and provided no source. The Jury said the opposite. You are not credible.

Edit: then you later quoted a REUTERS article without providing the source:

Tesla's Elon Musk found not liable in trial over 2018 'funding secured' tweets | Reuters (Feb 03, 2023)​

REUTERS is not the arbiter of the outcome of the civil trial: the JURY is.

Why did you withhold the source of your quote? REUTERS has demonstrated a history of false statements against Elon Musk and his interests, and is ALSO not credible.

EDIT 2: The very next day, REUTERS 'news agency' demonstrated their bias against Musk (and their disinterest in the Jury decision) with this article:

Elon Musk likely to 'double down' on tweets after court victory | Reuters (Feb 4, 2023)​

How does REUTERS know what Musk is 'likely' to do? Who is their source? How much money changed hands to get that story published? There is your civil suit.

 

[aubreymcfato]

In France, the deliveries increased 119% YOY (from today's newsletter of France's Tesla Owners Club by author Bertrand Moreau). According to the author, Tesla sold more cars in France in 2023 than Ford, Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes or Audi. More details and data here

View attachment 1006133View attachment 1006135

France was incredible this year, but if I understand it correctly was due to incentives ending on 31/12. So demand was pulled ahead, we'll see what happens in 2024. But great for them, of course. I just don't think these numbers are "organic" and sustainable.

What "disappointed" me (please take the word with a grain of salt) is that European sales started with a blast (95k in Q1, due to price reductions) then slowly decrease till Q4, historically the best of the year.
Now, we understand France, and probably demand was pulled ahead also for Germany, because of incentives ending abruptly.
Still, we know that in Q1 Berlin was ramping up production, and then stopped increasing around April. We (or at least I) don't know why.
We have been told it was for cost reduction and optimization, but in my naivety I thought that a steep price reduction in mid-January would have generated enough demand in Europe for Berlin to continue to ramp up through the whole 2023... It was not like that.
In general, it was a great 2023, especially compared to 2022, but we should be the first to recognize that we basically missed *two quarters* in 2022... So not a great comparison.
"Anticlimactic" is then not the wrong word, IMHO.
"Disappointing" I would use only for Germany, which decreased through the whole year, but is a very important market for Tesla, for obvious reasons.

I don't want to complain about a very good 2023, overall, but try to understand what's the play in Europe for Tesla. What to expect for 2024?

 

[Causalien]

Phew, that was a tough two years.
I actually didn't touch any of my investments and just hunkered down.

Going to check back in more often and watch the cybertruck phenomena. Actually hopeful this year Bought calls for 2025

How is everyone else's business doing?

 

[SO16]

SEC was apparently split on whether to pursue him on it, 3 votes to 2.

Still, I haven’t seen any convincing argument that funding was “secured”, rather than “discussed and likely available”. That wording would have prevented the damaging fall out.


That is part of the risk/reward analysis of investing with Elon.

From what Elon has SAID (if you choose to believe him or not, that’s up to you), he had to take the SEC deal because if he didn’t, the banks would have pulled funding support and killed Tesla.

So, do you take the deal to save your company or not take it out of principle and lose everything? I know what I would do.

 

[Causalien]

I think Musk can be a bit of a drama queen with the bankruptcy warnings. Maybe it is how he motivates his employees.
Both SpaceX and Tesla faced bankruptcy in the very early days; SpaceX after failing three times to get Falcon 1 orbit and Tesla in 2008 when the great financial crisis dried up financing.
However Musk’s more recent warnings about possible bankruptcy are not real. There was no immediate risk. Tesla could easily have raised money during model 3 production hell if it needed to. Same with SpaceX during the early days of Starship/Starlink. In fact, it’s been over two years since he said SpaceX faced a risk of bankruptcy if it didn’t get starship to orbit and start launching starlink v2 satellites with it. Neither has happened; SpaceX adapted by building the v2 mini satellites and launching them on falcon 9 while raising plenty of money along the way.

I've been going around asking several different groups. And for the current 20s generation. Unfortunately many got turned off tesla by what musk spewed out on Twitter.

I actually pushed the envelop, went further and asked them to put a number on this Elon Musk reputation discount. So for Equal EV spec cars,tesla will have to be 7000 cheaper for them to consider a Tesla.

 

[SO16]

I've been going around asking several different groups. And for the current 20s generation. Unfortunately many got turned off tesla by what musk spewed out on Twitter.

I actually pushed the envelop and went further and asked them to put a number on this Elon Musk reputation discount. So for Equal EV spec cars,tesla will have to be 7000 cheaper for them to consider a Tesla.

Funny how it’s only 7k to buy someone.

 

[Unpilot]

SEC ruling against Musk: Who was the Chairmen of the SEC then?

Jay Clayton (attorney) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Look who he worked for and what firms he represented.

As others have said, this was a FORCED "agreement"

Big money hates disruptors.

 

[Artful Dodger]

Funny how it’s only 7k to buy someone.

Getting people to repeat the lie (whether knowingly or not) is the GOAL of negative PR campaigns. The motivation for Media to manipulate their audience is because its profitable for their backers, who fund the PR campaign from behind a veil of secrecy (safety and convenience all for one low, low price).

Big money hates disruptors.

8 Industries Being Disrupted By Elon Musk And His Companies - CB Insights (Apr 26, 2021)

8 Industries Being Disrupted By Elon Musk And His Companies | CB Insights Research

Elon Musk is CEO of Tesla and SpaceX, has plans to colonize Mars, and thinks AI may turn humans into its pets. But beyond the hype, his enormous net worth, and Twitter presence, here's how Musk's companies are actually taking on 8 industries.

www.cbinsights.com

#roto-REUTERS