Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[Chenkers]

To other points:
Are those units dehumidifiers, or are they are heat exchangers for the working fluid which then feed heaters, chillers, and dehumidifiers?

All this back and forth about Evapco units is probably annoying everyone to death at this point.

To clarify this issue and answer the question above I can provide some clarity. The Evapco units are not dehumidifiers, they are Cooling Towers. Cooling towers are heat rejection units that are used to reject heat generated inside the building to the ambient air. They are typically paired with water cooled chillers that provide the cooling to air conditioning systems but can also directly reject heat from other processes. This whole area of the factory could be an office building and you would still have these Evapco units present as part of the cooling system. Any claim that the presence of these Cooling Towers meas that electrde and cathode production is underway is a big stretch.

Dehumidification is extremely important to battery manufacturing as extremely low humidity levels are required to prevent airborne moisture affecting the chemicals, materials and processes used in the anode, cathode and cell production. Joe Tegtmeyer did capture the delivery of dehumidification units recently as shown in the video below. These would be a dessicant style dehumidification unit that absorbs moisture directly from the air. The dessicant needs to be dried again as part of the dehumidification cycle and that's where the air conditioning plant can assist, but ony as a secondary input.

 

[Tony73]

The real question is where they will mount the range extending battery on the roadster that gets them to the promised range with current battery technology. Replace passenger seat ?

Range extender ? That will do wonders for handling.

They will probably do what they did with the 520 mile model S Plaid. Rename it to Plaid+ and do nothing.

 

[wipster]

I thought Berlin was people limited.

I don't think they're in the Suez Canal...

 

[wipster]

Time of Sale credit is now live via Tesla app.

Applies to inventory too!

 

[Krugerrand]

Should every person on earth get paid differently depending on if they are doing something "good" with the money. That would be some giant can of worms.

That couldn’t possibly work any worse than people with gobs of money and power doing what they are now by propping up the likes of war criminals, fossil fuel advocates, financial sector thieves, media fud spreaders etc…

Or do you think our current system of monetary rewarding is working well?

So, yeah. Why shouldn’t people doing good with money be given more money to do more good? I don’t see a problem at all with it and I’ll be happy to make the decisions who gets the money and who doesn’t. Sign me up.

 

[wipster]

I think it asks you if you'll want to apply for it on the order or financing page and then asks if you want to use it on the incentives page.
View attachment 1008291

Actually it shows it right after the total price for either a new custom order or inventory vehicles. This particular one is for an inventory MYLR:

 

[mongo]

Actually it shows it right after the total price for either a new custom order or inventory vehicles. This particular one is for an inventory MYLR:

Sure, but that's just the estimator. I was referring to the actual application and crediting process of an order.

 

[wipster]

Sure, but that's just the estimator. I was referring to the actual application and crediting process of an order.

No worries, not correcting, just showing where I first saw it. Amazing what you can get an MYLR for...

Now the question is does one wait until the Juniper refresh?

 

[FreqFlyer]

On this site, we have discussed the challenges involved in going from 2,000,000 cars a year to 10,000000 a year or more. Tesla has a huge amount on its plate with new and expanding existing factories thats for sure. The shear volume of vehicles needed is also going to run into the desire of many people for a car that looks/is different from their neighbors. That is one reason you see so many colors, models and trims from current companies. Around here there are a sea of white Ys. I’ve seen a few with modifications to make theirs different. Even Henry Ford couldn’t sell only one color forever. Expansion of choice will have to come at that point, and it will be interesting to see how Tesla handles it.

That is a good point, expanding the product line.

 

[MC3OZ]

The real question is where they will mount the range extending battery on the roadster that gets them to the promised range with current battery technology. Replace passenger seat ?

I doubt that...

A reasonable conclusion is that the Roadster needs special battery and pack technology that is not yet ready for prime-time.

If the Roadster does ship on 2024 then that probably means Tesla has a battery pack with really good energy density, good fast charging and a reasonable cycle-life.

And / or the Roadster range might be dialled back a bit, the large pack and the long range was at the time a by-product of hitting the performance specs. Since then, Tesla has improved the motors and power electronics. We also have innovations like 48V and steer-by-wire which can reduce weight.

We are better off with the Roadster shipping when all of the the technology and engineering results in a really great product, the best car that Tesla can make for the price tag.

And IMO we are better off with a lighter more efficient Roadster, with great handling even if that has a much shorter range than was stated in the reveal.

Having a light more efficient design which requires a smaller battery pack, means higher margins on the product with no compromise on performance or handling.

If Tesla are going to kick the tires on Magnesium castings, the Roadster might be a good candidate for that.

I've never assumed that the Plaid+ Model S is permanently cancelled, it might just be having a long hibernation. I assume that if it is made, it is sharing some technology with the Roadster.

For the Roadster, having the right product with a smart design is more important than the timeline.

For the Gen3 car, time is important, ASAP is highly desirable, but only for a good product with good margins.

 

[Cosmacelf]

Hopefully Tesla doesn't lard up the Roadster with its promise 600 mile range. It isn't needed in a sportscar! I'd much rather get a 300 mile range, and thus much lighter and more responsive, Roadster.

 

[GhostSkater]

If they get the Roadster to 5 mi/kWh, they need just a 120 kWh pack for 600 miles, likely can be done in a single layer pack

Ignoring single layer, plenty of opportunities to double stack the pack in some places

Might be doable with current 4680s or if not, shortly with the Gen 3 cells out of Kato Rd that should be coming in two weeks

Rimac Nevera pack as example, 120 kWh with 2170 cells, just the efficiency that is pretty poor at just 2.4 mi/kWh. Would be pretty amazing for Tesla to make something that beats it at least in some metrics and scenarios while having double the efficiency

 

[jerry33]

Hopefully Tesla doesn't lard up the Roadster with its promise 600 mile range. It isn't needed in a sportscar! I'd much rather get a 300 mile range, and thus much lighter and more responsive, Roadster.

But how far is 600 miles on race day? Will it do a 30 to 45 minute race? I doubt 300 miles will cut it.

 

[MC3OZ]

But how far is 600 miles on race day? Will it do a 30 to 45 minute race? I doubt 300 miles will cut it.

How far it goes depends on, weight, aero, efficiency, regen braking, tire wear... and it depends n the track...

More weight means more wear on the tires especially in high speed in a race... and it may impact on the forces on other components in corners, or the speed at which corners can be taken.

The problem with "brute-force" design is once you hit the limit there is nowhere to go, with an elegant efficient design, there are lots of options.

IMO the original Roadster design proved that it was possible to achieve the specs, but it wasn't necessarily the best way of achieving them,

 

[GhostSkater]

But how far is 600 miles on race day? Will it do a 30 to 45 minute race? I doubt 300 miles will cut it.

One lap on the Nürburgring on a full send took a Plaid from 95% to 53%. 21 kilometers, or a total range of 50 km

I'm not a race driver (although I pretend sometimes), but obviously some races EVs are far away from competing, anything that involves long distance and quick refueling is out. But for the weekend warriors on time attack runs or few lap races? 50 km seems plenty

 

[CyberShy]

Hopefully Tesla doesn't lard up the Roadster with its promise 600 mile range. It isn't needed in a sportscar! I'd much rather get a 300 mile range, and thus much lighter and more responsive, Roadster.

Hopefully, Tesla cancels this waste of resources that would only delay designing the $25K Tesla or any other vehicle that would help Tesla reach 20M vehicles by 2030. The roadster is not one of them.

Improve CT volumes. Launch the $25k vehicle. Bring out a CyberVan or whatever it’s called, but please please please leave the roadster in the bin of “we missed our mark and smartened up” In the meantime.

Tesla Does not need the roadster for image, sales, prestige, bragging rights, or other forms of waving. Leave $250K vehicles to Lucid and Faraday Future. The stock does not need it.

 

[MC3OZ]

, anything that involves long distance and quick refueling is out.

The Chinese have lab R&D on a zinc based battery that can charge at 1000C.

Investor Engineering Discussions

This is yet another new battery type:- New Aqueous Zinc Battery Breakthrough - Real Deal or Hype? Worth watching some of the claimed specs seem to good to be true, by the way hydrogen ion are apparently used to boost the battery energy density is something I have been encountered before.

teslamotorsclub.com

Obviously years away from production, and a few issues that need more R&D, but the way this battery uses hydrogen-ions is very clever.

A Roadster battery (especially the race version) could trade-off pack longevity for higher energy density and faster charging. The battery abuse could be unlocked via the track-mode package and could impact on the warranty.

 

[spacerfc]

Is Musk tone-def? Earnings are declining and share price has been flat / down for years. His employees rely decently on the stock based part of their compensation and they aren't that pleased either (the ones I've talked to, not pissed but not pleased). Is it a great time to be clamoring for a larger payout than his ~ 20% equity in the company?

Huh? How is that tone-def? His hypothetical new compensation plan would obviously be linked to share price and market cap, this would actually make him care *more* about share price, which is exactly what you wanted here.

 

[Musskiah]

Venting his frustrations on X... is this a sign the board is refusing to give him a new comp plan?

I personally don't mind a little dilution if we reach such market cap and cash flow targets like last time, but...

Is Musk tone-def? Earnings are declining and share price has been flat / down for years. His employees rely decently on the stock based part of their compensation and they aren't that pleased either (the ones I've talked to, not pissed but not pleased). Is it a great time to be clamoring for a larger payout than his ~ 20% equity in the company?

In Q1 2018, when Musk's comp plan was announced, there was similar sentiment. "Negative earnings Q after Q! Flat stock for years. What is he thinking?" With TSLA's market cap averaging right around $50B, a stock-only comp plan with vesting traunches at every $50B change in market cap up to $650B seemed insane to many. Yet, within less than 3 years we all saw what Elon saw prior to Q1 2018, perhaps a decade before most; TSLA should not be measured in TENS of $Bs or even hundreds of $Bs...but $TRILLIONS. Now we are being openly told TSLA should be measured eventually in the TENS of $T market cap. I would wager Elon easily sees HUNDREDS of $T; but he can't say that cause it sounds insane. How can one company be worth more than the world GDP?

Welcome to the age of abundance the likes of which humanity has never known.

Elon has the benefit of extreme foresight. He's like Ray Kurzwell meets Edison...or whatever. To understand his comments, we must also see into the future. Those of us who saw in 2018 with conviction and doubled down the summer of 2019 when the picture was painted as hopeless...well, we only wished others had done the same. Unfortunately, there are those who continue to try to dismiss him by staring into the rear view.

 

[Musskiah]

More from India...
Mukesh Aghi, President of the US-India Strategic Partnership Forum (USISPF CEO),highlighted the importance of Tesla’s production in India, considering the significant role of chip manufacturing in the country. Aghi mentioned that several US companies are shifting their production to India due to increased challenges in China.

SOURCE:

https://www.aninews.in/news/world/asia/win-win-for-everybody-usispf-ceo-on-prospects-of-tesla-production-in-india20240114194903#google_vignette

Also, some details here that India's officials are fast tracking the process to get an announcement this month.

Tesla To Debut In India As Early As Jan 2024? - New Details

As per the reports, government of India is working to ramp up the approvals for Elon Musk’s Tesla and the timeline has been set for Jan 2024

gaadiwaadi.com