Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[wipster]

Well we always have this to look forward to:

That AGI enough for us!

I know it's fake but damn!

 

[powertoold]

Elon's post and subsequent reactions remind me of this meme:

 

[EVMeister]

The truck is a huge fail.

Completely discredited everything else you said with that BS statement.

 

[Rarity]

Nah bro cant do my job at one of the largest companies on the planet that has already paid me out gigantic billion dollar comp package. I need at least 25% then I’ll be all good. Hey it’s not my fault I sold down some shares. But if that don’t happen I’m gonna just keep starting rival companies and taking talent with me. But I’m still CEO though no worries.

A lot of people around here made a lot of money with that gigantic billion dollar comp package.

If he wants to reup on the next $20 trillion, I would be amenable.

 

[Singuy]

No individual has even REMOTELY a similar amount of shares, let alone over 20% of em.

I don't think there's more than like 2 guys at even ONE percent (KoGuan Leo and Larry Ellison)

According to this no institutions own even 5% of the stock other than Vanguard at a 6.74%

TSLA - Tesla Inc Shareholders - CNNMoney.com

How come I am seeing 13% stake from multiple sources. How did you get 20%? Stake in the company vs voting rights are different?

 

[NicoV]

If Elon wants to dilute me 5% when Tesla reaches $10T I won't be crying about it. Maybe fewer tranches in the next round with bigger intervals. 1% every $2T increase in market cap.

I’m also ok with giving Elon a couple of percent and Elon doing the hard work while I’m surfing the web.

 

[Thekiwi]

There are 2 halves to any negotiation.

To unlock the higher rewards from any package, there may be a few requirements:-

• Tesla bigger than Apple and ARAMCO combined.
• 1 Million profitable working Optimus Robots.
• 1 Million profitable working FSD Robotaxis
• 20 Million vehicles produced annually,
• Inhouse battery cell production of 1 TWh per year
• Dojo as a service.

If both sides get everything that they want I am happy, but in order to be rewarded, Elon needs to deliver.

Elon has some idea of what is coming, I think that is why he is negotiating now.,

Debating what is an appropriate compensation package for Elon, and the milestones needed to achieve it is valuable.

However the major Issue today is that Elon is publicly threatening as Tesla CEO to no longer work on two Tesla endeavors which he previously said would be huge growth opportunities for the company, because he doesn’t possess enough shares, and that he will instead work on them outside of Tesla - unless he is given more shares in Tesla. That is completely unacceptable behaviour.

 

[wipster]

Maybe look around to see what others has. Perhaps 25% is the threshold in which not one institution or person can override him but requires multiple.

One thing I think we all agree on is that X was/is NOT (edited) the best place to negotiate it. At least from a stock holder's perspective because of the potential negative impact on the SP.

Perhaps from Elon's point of view it makes sense because it potentially gives him more leverage? Plus we don't know what's going on behind closed doors ala Charlie Rich...

 

[Thekiwi]

Elon's post and subsequent reactions remind me of this meme:

View attachment 1009224

How dare people on a Tesla investment forum care when the CEO of Tesla says he will no longer work on two big growth projects at Tesla because he wants more shares, and threatens to instead work on them at other companies he starts in competition to Tesla.

 

[phoggy123]

Elon's 2021/2022 sales reduced his projected ownership stake 3.2% (of the company)

Ownership as reported to SEC is share plus option count irrespective of ability to turns those into shares at 1:1. With 50% tax, only half are realizable

Ownership ending 2018: 21.7%, post exercise 21.0%
507,370,200 shares 71,221,650 options (adjusted)
These options are from the 2012 plan, not the 2018

Ownership 2019: 20.8% post exercise: 20.1%
511,283,400 shares 68,596,650 (non-2018)

Ownership 2020: 22.4% post exercise: 20.7%
511,478,955 shares 169,916,850 options (some 2018)

Ownership 2021: 21.2% post exercise: 19.6%
517,824,753 shares 177,320,865 options (only 2018s)

Ownership end 2022: 20.6% post exercise 18.8%
411,051,576 shares 303,971,130 options

Backing out all sales, post exercise he would be at 22.0% (26.9% SEC version)
545,581,725 shares and 303,971,130 options

Let's say that the board were to approve share buybacks recently, lets also say this puts the TSLA stock price down over the coming weeks months, wouldn't this be a great time to A. get a new pay package, and B. Remove shares in the pool to get him over the 25% hump?

 

[cdub]

Set the bar super high and let him do it. We all know he will achieve it. Little risk to the shareholders if we agree as he won't get the shares unless he achieves.

He's the reason the stock has lost 50% so there's that. I don't believe he can grow and run the company anymore. He's way too toxic.

Completely discredited everything else you said with that BS statement.

I'm sorry but you think the truck is a win and not a fail? In what way?

It's double the price with half the capabilities promised at reveal. Total fail.

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

Hold on a sec.

Elon has been talking about robotics and Optimus from a Tesla perspective for a long time now. So it's safe to assume they are a part of Tesla for now or there will be some huge lawsuits for false presentation or something if it turns out they are not.

I know Tesla doesn't like patents but I believe they still get them.

So if Elon starts a new company wouldn't he have to start from scratch? Not being able to use anything that Tesla has already done.

 

[mongo]

Don't like the optics of this as well but when it is all said and done what shareholder is going to argue against 5-10% dilution for another 7-8x stock price increase. Set the bar super high and let him do it. We all know he will achieve it. Little risk to the shareholders if we agree as he won't get the shares unless he achieves. Bigger risk if we don't give it to him as now it's obvious he will do it outside Tesla.

More like 14 to 15 percent...

How come I am seeing 13% stake from multiple sources. How did you get 20%? Stake in the company vs voting rights are different?

Different numbers
13% (ish): Shares he currently has (current voting)
20.6%: Shares + options he has (SEC reporting, meaningless)
18.8% : Shares + options - (exercise and taxes) (max voting after exercise)

 

[Rarity]

How dare people on a Tesla investment forum care when the CEO of Tesla says he will no longer work on two big growth projects at Tesla because he wants more shares, and threatens to instead work on them at other companies he starts in competition to Tesla.

That moment when you realize your CEO has been working for free for the last few years...

 

[Mengy]

Well in any case, this controversial tweet should make tomorrow an interesting trading day for the stock, and I expect to hear all the finance talking heads yammering about it as well.


Yay.

 

[ByeByeJohnny]

That moment when you realize your CEO has been working for free for the last few years...

He hasn't. He got a compensation plan in 2018 that was intended for 10 years.

 

[Knightshade]

How come I am seeing 13% stake from multiple sources. How did you get 20%? Stake in the company vs voting rights are different?

Teslas own latest proxy statement lists Elon as beneficially owning (meaning shares plus options) 20.6%- , 715,022,706 shares. Of which 411,062,076 are settled shares and 303,960,630 are from exercisable options. They also note roughly 238,441,261 of those shares are pledged as collateral for loans Elon has taken.

 

[Rarity]

He hasn't. He got a compensation plan in 2018 that was intended for 10 years.

He finished the task early.

 

[powertoold]

How dare people on a Tesla investment forum care when the CEO of Tesla says he will no longer work on two big growth projects at Tesla because he wants more shares, and threatens to instead work on them at other companies he starts in competition to Tesla.

I just look at this from a cost benefit pov.

Elon and others have pointed out that civilization seems to be on the cusp of major inflections.

Elon wants to have more assurance that he's able to influence these inflections at the cost of several %.

Seems like a no brainer to me, and it's not like Elon is requesting this out of greed

Sure, he could have done all of this a different way, perhaps more privately, but this is Elon we're talking about, when hasn't this been a rollercoaster ride

 

[Knightshade]

Different numbers
13% (ish): Shares he currently has (current voting)
20.6%: Shares + options he has (SEC reporting, meaningless)
18.8% : Shares + options - (exercise and taxes) (max voting after exercise)

Note your 18.8% number assumes he has no money from any other source with which to pay his taxes.

That might well be the "real" number we end up at in 2028 when he'll have to exercise them. But should he end up with any major net funds out of any of the other many companies he has major ownership shares in that would not turn out to be true and he could keep more of the Tesla shares if he wished.

(An IPO for starlink, or some major neuralink breakthrough for example)