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I think Elon has made a few tactical mistakes which will result in slow growth for the next couple of years, these are:
1. Going all in the 4680 battery production, when the risk was that if you can’t mass produce them quick enough it will add to the battery shortage.
It would have been better to increase capacity of the 2170s until you are certain the 4680s will be produced in sufficient numbers.
2. Not focussing on designing the smaller cheaper vehicle earlier.
Elon was all into the next generation auto vehicle and Franz had to convince him to produce the conventional vehicle by saying that the same design can be used for the robo taxi.
The facts are you have a limit of how many vehicles you can sell which cost a minimum of $40,000.
A smaller vehicle costing $25-30,000 can sell by the millions a year.
So by not focusing on this straight after the Y has been a major mistake.
3. Ramping up the semi earlier. I understand time was needed to put the semi through its paces but it could have gone faster by producing more for different customers to use and then gradually increasing the production, adapting to any problems reported by customers.
4. Not planning to produce other vehicles that sell in significant numbers such as a van.
5. Not doing targeted advertising. Once upon a time word of mouth was enough but now production exceeds supply. Plenty of people have no idea about how good EVs are, targeted advertising will increase sales but Elon has an ideological aversion to it.

As a result the next couple of years will be slow in terms of vehicle growth even allowing for the cybertruck sales.
I don’t expect full autonomy or the Bot to produce any meaningful revenue any time soon.
The only other aspect which is a positive is how quickly they can ramp up battery’s for storage as that is one area where demand exceeds supply.

The main factor impacting on the share price will be the slow growth rate for selling vehicles overall.
Sure other factors will affect it such as interest rates, a potential recession, Elons antics etc but the fundamental problem is I don’t see a big jump in the number of vehicles sold for a few years.

I am a long term holder so I can wait but the last couple of years seem a wasted opportunity in terms of long term planning.
It comes down to the fact that the board is weak. I mean how difficult is it to say to Elon you have a habit of achieving impossible things but they often take many years past your estimates so it makes sense to plan and make vehicles like a “normal” vehicle manufacturer until we are certain we can achieve what we want to do ?
That the best strategy is to systematically produce vehicles in different categories?
It is always nice to postulate strategies that could have had better results if only one assumes all things to be equal. They are never quite that. For each alleged error, there are other examples of huge successes such as Gigapress deployment and increasing production efficiencies.
- it is illogical to issue a cheaper smaller vehicle class until the technologies to do so cheaply enough a mature;
- from your Semi case to busses, commercial vehicles and other variants each consumes engineering and distribution resources that are also needed for improving production efficiency.
- As for your assertion that Tesla is too little known and therefore have passed growth limits without paid promotion you might consider that Tesla distribution now still does not include all of California, less so US-wide and has zero in numerous countries. Staying with the present business model gives major pricing flexibility, and still supports rapid expansion of Tesla’s major selling advantage, Superchargers.

By no means do I think they are perfect. They are, however, the most efficient automaker on earth. Further they have the highest selling individual vehicle on earth, even though they are distributed in fewer than half the countries as the former leader, Toyota Corolla, and have only a couple of versions, versus more than twenty variants of the Corolla.

Please think of that, while considering Model Y is generally about 75% or so more expensive than those Corolla variants.

The Tesla strategic errors have been glaring in hindsight, especially slow 4680 development. So, they find workarounds.
Please think of the bright side as well as considering deficiencies. Then think of liquidity and Free Cash Flow. Next consider all those OEMs whose product diversity includes all those variants you mention. Finally, check their liquidity and Free Cash Flow. Hint: every one of them has poorer fundamental economic results than has Tesla.

NET: Please don’t beg for decreasing efficiency. You might get it!
 
As a result the next couple of years will be slow in terms of vehicle growth even allowing for the cybertruck sales.
I don’t expect full autonomy or the Bot to produce any meaningful revenue any time soon.
The only other aspect which is a positive is how quickly they can ramp up battery’s for storage as that is one area where demand exceeds supply.
Let's check back at the end of THIS year to see if what you write with such certainty comes true.
 
I think what MD70 is trying to say is that Tesla has not effectively communicated how they are going to increase production from 1.8M across four plants to 2.4M when no new factories are being built to be ready for production this year.

GigaBerlin seems to have trouble increasing production or hiring for it.
GigaMexico hasn’t broken ground. GigaIndia is hasn’t been announced.
GigaChina II hasn’t…. You get the idea.

Hopefully, some enthusiasm for growth will be communicated at the Q4 results call and not doom and gloom from an inflation-fearing Elon.
 
For those that have jumped around countries a lot, what do you do with your portfolio? Do you leave it in your home country or do a ACATS every now and then with each move? Maybe @unk45 is fit to answer that since as Johnny Cash said, he has been everywhere man

And what are the taxes implications? I tried to find a clear answer for this without luck

Here is my current situation, I invest with a broker in which I send cash to it in BRL, do the exchange inside it and buy in USD, for selling the reverse

Now let’s say I moved somewhere else, if I stay with the same broker I can send money to it in USD directly, send money back to Brazil in BRL and then convert to USD, or I could get a new broker and move my portfolio

I think the big question is, if I buy stocks from money earned in one country, and sell many years down the line in another, which country tax code do I have to follow? Brazil has a pretty ok tax rate for long stocks, specifically compared to others, so it would be advantageous to use it
 
The glaring question unasked of MD70 is, what experience do they have, from which to judge, in successfully visualizing, starting up, and managing:

  • An automotive design and manufacturing startup?
  • A battery development and manufacturing startup?
  • A robotics design and manufacturing startup?
  • A software startup?
  • An AI development startup?
  • A Supercomputer design and operation startup?
  • A tunneling startup?
  • A Social media and "Everything App" startup?
  • A financial transactions startup?
  • A brain/compute interface startup?
  • A global satellite-based computer and phone network?
  • The most successful space launch provider?
  • The knitting of the above together in a way that they complement each other to achieve even greater goals to preserve humanity?
  • Accomplishing this over a span of only two or three decades?
 
As a result the next couple of years will be slow in terms of vehicle growth even allowing for the cybertruck sales.
I don’t expect full autonomy or the Bot to produce any meaningful revenue any time soon.
The only other aspect which is a positive is how quickly they can ramp up battery’s for storage as that is one area where demand exceeds supply.

I agree with this mostly, I too don't think we'll see much auto production growth (or rather low production growth) for the next year or two. Gen 3 will probably enter production in late 2025 out of Austin, and Giga Mexico (and Shanghai) will likely start Gen 3 production late in 2026, so new growth is coming. Megapacks are scaling though we are still low in the S curve for a few years yet, and I agree we probably won't see revenues from FSD nor Optimus for many years either.

I disagree with your notion that Elon has made huge mistakes leading to this though. The pandemic was a huge speed bump and given that I think Elon and Tesla weathered it pretty well, though it has slowed down their schedule a bit.

Tesla is in a great spot and it's future is massively bright due to currently laying foundations for major growth, but I do believe the next year or two will be basically "flat" as we coil the spring for a huge release.
 
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The glaring question unasked of MD70 is, what experience do they have, from which to judge, in successfully visualizing, starting up, and managing:

  • An automotive design and manufacturing startup?
  • A battery development and manufacturing startup?
  • A robotics design and manufacturing startup?
  • A software startup?
  • An AI development startup?
  • A Supercomputer design and operation startup?
  • A tunneling startup?
  • A Social media and "Everything App" startup?
  • A financial transactions startup?
  • A brain/compute interface startup?
  • A global satellite-based computer and phone network?
  • The most successful space launch provider?
  • The knitting of the above together in a way that they complement each other to achieve even greater goals to preserve humanity?
  • Accomplishing this over a span of only two or three decades?

Because unless you have experience in all those things, you have no right to criticize or question Elon Musk.

I ‘ve never been president or an NFL quarterback and I have strong opinions about both. Is that OK?
 
Maybe OT here. What’s the quality of TSLA that makes it so options heavy and subject to all the MM dealings? Structurally Couldn’t this happen to any stock?

Is the end of it, like many suggested, when dividends or other ironclad things increase the price of shorting and manufacturing shares?

It's the volatility which prices the premium on options. Larger premiums mean more option bets both ways. No other mega cap has the volatility or IV of Tesla. It's even above Nvidia.

The reason for the volatility is unlike other mega caps (i.e Microsoft or Apple) which will likely only see incremental profit/revenue improvement, Tesla could see many multiples of improvement. Then you have others betting with options that Tesla will crash and profits/growth will stop.

It's bit of a polarized stock which leads to volatility.
 
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Note this is behind a paywall, but if you look around -- and it is well worth it -- the full piece can be found on reddit and prob elsewhere.
This is the most accurate look at the current state of play for EVs generally and the the market for them and where it is headed including what Tesla’s pricing strategy is doing to the big picture. And just for fun it totally dismantles the recent Chicago Ice FUD and explains the real origins of FUD as well as the fact that FUD continues to coast along because of those origins, but that the cars themselves are fixing that. Quite a piece. WSJ editorial pages are pro ICE BS but not Dan Neil.
 
Maybe OT here. What’s the quality of TSLA that makes it so options heavy and subject to all the MM dealings? Structurally Couldn’t this happen to any stock?

Is the end of it, like many suggested, when dividends or other ironclad things increase the price of shorting and manufacturing shares?

To me, "Disruption" is the key word for unlocking the answer.

Sure, it could happen to any stock, but it is easier to hit Tesla as the volatility is being driven by media campaigns championed by those being disrupted by Elon's creations.

There is a long list of the dearly disrupted which, among others, includes:

  • Fossil Fuel Energy players, and their supporting industries
  • ICE automotive players and their supporting industries
  • Advertising companies and their well-developed network of outlets
  • Social Media outlets with any specific bias
  • News companies with any specific bias

These are the tip of the ICEberg and the greater disruption and transformation toward a world of abundance will impact other players who have depended upon tools like control of the price of energy to dictate technical progress, wealth distribution, and classes of lifestyle.

The potential of the long-term effects of Tesla, and other Musk companies, threatens age-old regimes that have concentrated wealth and progress to be controlled by a plethora of power brokers.

Take a gander at some of the Tony Seba videos on YouTube to get more detail on where the world is headed, why it is headed that way, and then think about who will be affected negatively by such a paradigm shift.

This isn't a conspiracy. It is an affront to a wide variety of players who each are finding they have an axe to grind and will make their subtle attempts to put off their own demise and maintain their station in life.

This leads to Tesla being THE stock most affected, creating an environment where the folks on Wall Street can most easily capitalize on the action that results.

Add to this the rules governing naked shorting and Wally's work becomes easy to accomplish when given a suitable target.
 
Shyam Sankar CTO of Palantir discusses the launch if copilot with Panasonic Energy @ GigaNevada to do very sophisticated maintenance of very sophisticated battery equipment
@45:50


There has been some discussion here about diversification and companies with potential short term profitability. PLTR has achieved its very first profitable year in 2023. As PLTR EPS is currently measured in single cents, these are the times (recall when TSLA achieved profitability a few short years ago) where it wouldn't take much of an EPS suprise to quickly compress the P/E ratio and FWD P/E projection.

I generally do not invest outside of TSLA stock and derivatives - as we all know there is no jockey quite like Elon who can provide such future potential. To be transparent, my exceptions to this rule have been NVDA, AMD & ENPH; albiet they have been very small positions in comparison. I am considering PLTR as a possible exception. I will probably kick myself in retrospect.
 
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Because unless you have experience in all those things, you have no right to criticize or question Elon Musk.

I ‘ve never been president or an NFL quarterback and I have strong opinions about both. Is that OK?

Sure. Of course that's okay, as you must know what opinions are like, and who has them, right?

Informed opinions will carry more weight in any discussion. Much like an actual quarterback will make more touchdowns than an armchair quarterback will.

Anyone suggesting Elon/Tesla should do this or do that more often than not is unlikely to have enough background to understand well enough to pontificate upon it. As opposed to the people making the decisions while actually running the company.

Often it is more beneficial to ask questions than it is to make statements about something not understood.
Please note how the post of mine you refer to has question marks at the end of the sentences.
 
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I think Elon has made a few tactical mistakes which will result in slow growth for the next couple of years, these are:
1. Going all in the 4680 battery production, when the risk was that if you can’t mass produce them quick enough it will add to the battery shortage.
It would have been better to increase capacity of the 2170s until you are certain the 4680s will be produced in sufficient numbers.
2. Not focussing on designing the smaller cheaper vehicle earlier.
Elon was all into the next generation auto vehicle and Franz had to convince him to produce the conventional vehicle by saying that the same design can be used for the robo taxi.
The facts are you have a limit of how many vehicles you can sell which cost a minimum of $40,000.
A smaller vehicle costing $25-30,000 can sell by the millions a year.
So by not focusing on this straight after the Y has been a major mistake.
3. Ramping up the semi earlier. I understand time was needed to put the semi through its paces but it could have gone faster by producing more for different customers to use and then gradually increasing the production, adapting to any problems reported by customers.
4. Not planning to produce other vehicles that sell in significant numbers such as a van.
5. Not doing targeted advertising. Once upon a time word of mouth was enough but now production exceeds supply. Plenty of people have no idea about how good EVs are, targeted advertising will increase sales but Elon has an ideological aversion to it.

As a result the next couple of years will be slow in terms of vehicle growth even allowing for the cybertruck sales.
I don’t expect full autonomy or the Bot to produce any meaningful revenue any time soon.
The only other aspect which is a positive is how quickly they can ramp up battery’s for storage as that is one area where demand exceeds supply.

The main factor impacting on the share price will be the slow growth rate for selling vehicles overall.
Sure other factors will affect it such as interest rates, a potential recession, Elons antics etc but the fundamental problem is I don’t see a big jump in the number of vehicles sold for a few years.

I am a long term holder so I can wait but the last couple of years seem a wasted opportunity in terms of long term planning.
It comes down to the fact that the board is weak. I mean how difficult is it to say to Elon you have a habit of achieving impossible things but they often take many years past your estimates so it makes sense to plan and make vehicles like a “normal” vehicle manufacturer until we are certain we can achieve what we want to do ?
That the best strategy is to systematically produce vehicles in different categories?
I'm afraid I agree with much of this analysis. Leaving the categories of affordable cars, light trucks, semi trucks unfilled and available to Chinese and other competitors to catch up and address, and the lack of meaningful advertising these last 2-3 years has been a big own-goal. What unk45 has been telling us about Chinese progress in the southern hemisphere, largely invisible to us, only reinforces my concerns. I think it likely that our fearless leader's notable distractions may have something to do with this, but it is what it is. That time is now lost and cannot be recovered. Tesla's competitors likely cannot believe their luck. Long term--I'm bullish. Short-term--not so much.
 
Screenshot_20240121_103350_Chrome.jpg
Whenever the 50DMA (green) settles between the 100 and 200, it is indication the spring has coiled, and we get a large move. It's coming!
 
I think Elon has made a few tactical mistakes which will result in slow growth for the next couple of years, these are:
1. Going all in the 4680 battery production, when the risk was that if you can’t mass produce them quick enough it will add to the battery shortage.
It would have been better to increase capacity of the 2170s until you are certain the 4680s will be produced in sufficient numbers.
2. Not focussing on designing the smaller cheaper vehicle earlier.
Elon was all into the next generation auto vehicle and Franz had to convince him to produce the conventional vehicle by saying that the same design can be used for the robo taxi.
The facts are you have a limit of how many vehicles you can sell which cost a minimum of $40,000.
A smaller vehicle costing $25-30,000 can sell by the millions a year.
So by not focusing on this straight after the Y has been a major mistake.
3. Ramping up the semi earlier. I understand time was needed to put the semi through its paces but it could have gone faster by producing more for different customers to use and then gradually increasing the production, adapting to any problems reported by customers.
4. Not planning to produce other vehicles that sell in significant numbers such as a van.
5. Not doing targeted advertising. Once upon a time word of mouth was enough but now production exceeds supply. Plenty of people have no idea about how good EVs are, targeted advertising will increase sales but Elon has an ideological aversion to it.

As a result the next couple of years will be slow in terms of vehicle growth even allowing for the cybertruck sales.
I don’t expect full autonomy or the Bot to produce any meaningful revenue any time soon.
The only other aspect which is a positive is how quickly they can ramp up battery’s for storage as that is one area where demand exceeds supply.

The main factor impacting on the share price will be the slow growth rate for selling vehicles overall.
Sure other factors will affect it such as interest rates, a potential recession, Elons antics etc but the fundamental problem is I don’t see a big jump in the number of vehicles sold for a few years.

I am a long term holder so I can wait but the last couple of years seem a wasted opportunity in terms of long term planning.
It comes down to the fact that the board is weak. I mean how difficult is it to say to Elon you have a habit of achieving impossible things but they often take many years past your estimates so it makes sense to plan and make vehicles like a “normal” vehicle manufacturer until we are certain we can achieve what we want to do ?
That the best strategy is to systematically produce vehicles in different categories?
Who doesn’t love a confident armchair quarterback? 🙋‍♂️
 
High energy/nickel pouch cells bad.

LFP ok. But often confusion whether LFP are pouch or prismatic for different brands/models.
To be specific CATL produces pouch, prismatic and cylindrical batteries for different purposes and customers. For Tesla they supply prismatic format cells. They are diverse battery specialists:
Both BYD and CATL also produce packs, BYD using their Blade technology, probably would be classed as prismatic but CATL has quite a diversity of packaging options.
For both they are quite diligent in their efforts to be worldwide producers and suppliers, although BYD tends to use it's broader product range, often busses, trucks and/or solar panels and stationary storage in forming new country expansion, while CATL stays with battery supply and has been known to enter a new market with an established local battery supplier, even one known for only traditional lead-acid.

CATL, in supplying pouch solutions, seems to have largely avoided the notorious quality control problems others, such as LG, have encountered. FWIW, it si notable that Geely, a customer of LG pouch cells for some models, has had none of the quality control problems other less-diligent OEMs have had, such as GM.

Since both of those are Tesla suppliers and Panasonic is trying to retain it's position too, Elon is making good of his long ago promise to buy batteries from any supplier which could meet Tesla standards.
 
Maybe OT here. What’s the quality of TSLA that makes it so options heavy and subject to all the MM dealings? Structurally Couldn’t this happen to any stock?

Is the end of it, like many suggested, when dividends or other ironclad things increase the price of shorting and manufacturing shares?
Originally, the short players were trying to drive Tesla to zero and bankruptcy. When that didn't happen, due to the Model S' success, the stock jumped after which gamblers started purchasing options on future values. This caused Tesla to have a reputation for volatility which the MMs and Hedge Funds have worked on ever since. It won't be the end of it because AAPL pays dividends and still is shorted, but the swings are not as wild because it's way too easy to lose more than was invested. Shorting is a dangerous game.