Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[advocate8]

I wonder if media coverage/FUD would change if media companies had Tesla/TSLA stock

UK broadcasters trade ad airtime for advertisers’ shares

With advertisers slashing their spend, channels have found a new way to fill unsold ad space

www.theguardian.com

Regardless of the effects on FUD it would be corrosive to truth generally.

 

[EVWatcher]

Broker is E*Trade. Voting shares is lower than the shares I hold in the account. Proxy vote site uses the statement “Shares available per proposal”.

I have not purchased shares this year. Voted shares are about 22% lower than my holding.

I had some covered calls sold when I voted. All are closed now. Proxy vote still indicates lowered shares numbers this morning.

I have some margin.

Comments?

Are they all in one account.

I had a similar situation until I realize that Gmail collapsed 3 emails from etrade that each contained a different link to vote for a different account despite the fact the emails were almost indistinguishable from one another. I made sure to open all 3 simultaneously when I realize this and added them together and then verified that I voted for each account.

 

[ShareLofty]

Nice to hear from Rob, I miss him.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1793658151964971312

Wow. This is the first interview or podcast I’ve heard from Rob where he’s defended Elon so strongly. Claims that all of Elon’s time at Twitter takes nothing away from Tesla. Could almost call Rob a bootlicker.

 

[EVMeister]

Wow. This is the first interview or podcast I’ve heard from Rob where he’s defended Elon so strongly. Claims that all of Elon’s time at Twitter takes nothing away from Tesla. Could almost call Rob a bootlicker.

And could almost call you poisoned against Elon.

 

[lascavarian]

Are they all in one account.

Yes, all in one account.

The sticky question to me is how borrowing shares from my account for their own usage (to which I contractually agreed, dark pools and all) even in a margin account, removes my right to vote those shares.

I understand they can decide circumstances require me to sell shares. But I pay my margin interest for the shares and it seems I should be the one to vote the shares as long as they were in my account on the required date.

Of course it is possible when I bought the shares on margin years ago, those shares are in some other owners account and they are voting the shares rather than me.

It could even be that I was sold my own shares since my existing TSLA shares were the basis for establishing margin in the first place. Very strange.

If I find a way to vote the shares I will circle back with the info.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

This is another reason why the Tesla semi is so exciting. It will be the first Tesla vehicle aimed squarely at corporate customers. Spacex gets pretty much everyone's business, because when rocket A launches at $80million and rocket B launches at $8million, you have to be insane, corrupt, or the worlds biggest virtue signaling organisation to give money to rocket A. With a personal car purchase, people already select a vehicle partly based on styling and superficial differences, so being influenced by an angry FUD stream to choose another EV is way easier.

When the semi hits mass production, there will definitely be a bunch of companies loudly proclaiming their orders and taking pride in them, and then a huge bunch of companies who buy them anyway, but don't want to jump into the culture wars over it.
And obviously a LOT of trucking is done by pretty no-brand haulage companies that nobody has heard of.

By the time the semi factory is complete, I think the first few thousand will already be pre sold to pespi, walmart etc, based on their experience with the hand built ones. The minute a 3rd party haulage firm orders some, it will snowball, because its a cut-throat low-margin business and anybody with ICE trucks will be screwed.

I don’t think they have even broke ground on the semi factory yet. I would think this is pushed to the next decade at this point, along with the factory in Mexico.

Jmho.

 

[growler23]

I don’t think they have even broke ground on the semi factory yet. I would think this is pushed to the next decade at this point, along with the factory in Mexico.

Jmho.

You are not entirely accurate - ground has been broken in Nevada, and nicely flattened - but that is about the extent of it.

 

[MP3Mike]

The sticky question to me is how borrowing shares from my account for their own usage (to which I contractually agreed, dark pools and all) even in a margin account, removes my right to vote those shares.

Because when they borrow your shares, they borrow the voting rights with them. And they likely sold those shares to someone else, and that person got the voting rights for the actual shares. (You don't have those shares, you just have an IOU for those shares, and when you sell them your broker first has to go buy, or borrow, shares from someone else before your sale can go through.)

If the voting rights didn't go with them when borrowed, that would either mean whoever bought the shares wouldn't have voting rights, or multiple people would have voting rights on the same "physical" share. Neither of which are acceptable.

 

[elasalle]

Because when they borrow your shares, they borrow the voting rights with them. And they likely sold those shares to someone else, and that person got the voting rights for the actual shares. (You don't have those shares, you just have an IOU for those shares, and when you sell them your broker first has to go buy, or borrow, shares from someone else before your sale can go through.)

If the voting rights didn't go with them when borrowed, that would either mean whoever bought the shares wouldn't have voting rights, or multiple people would have voting rights on the same "physical" share. Neither of which are acceptable.

The person borrowing the shares doesn't get dividends nor should he get voting rights. These should reside with the actual owner.

 

[MP3Mike]

The person borrowing the shares doesn't get dividends nor should he get voting rights.

Yes, they do. The person that lent the shares doesn't get the dividends; they get a dividend substitute from the borrower. (Which has potential tax disadvantages for the lender.)

These should reside with the actual owner.

They do. The actual owner is the person holding the actual share; which goes from lender to borrower; to person that buys it from the borrower, if the borrower sells the shares rather than holding them themselves. (As an FYI: it is pretty much guaranteed that the specific share you loan out will not come back to you when a share is returned to you.)

 

[elasalle]

Yes, they do. The person that lent the shares doesn't get the dividends; they get a dividend substitute from the borrower. (Which has potential tax disadvantages for the lender.)


They do. The actual owner is the person holding the actual share; which goes from lender to borrower; to person that buys it from the borrower, if the borrower sells the shares rather than holding them themselves. (As an FYI: it is pretty much guaranteed that the specific share you loan out will not come back to you when a share is returned to you.)

So if my shares are lent out by say Vanguard to someone who borrows to short it - i cannot vote on my shares?

 

[Hock1]

Yes, they do. The person that lent the shares doesn't get the dividends; they get a dividend substitute from the borrower.

It's called an "in lieu of dividend". Interestingly, The person who lent the shares (who receives the "in lieu of") has to pay regular income taxes on that "dividend". The person to whom the shares were shorted gets to pay the dividend tax , because they are in possession of those shares at the time if the dividend distribution. Several accountants that I know disputed this fact. They were surprised when they found out.

 

[MP3Mike]

So if my shares are lent out by say Vanguard to someone who borrows to short it - i cannot vote on my shares?

Correct, as they aren't your shares at that point, you loaned them to someone else. (Can you drive your car while you have rented it to someone via Turo?) You are giving up your voting rights, and actual dividends, in return for whatever compensation you are getting to lend your shares.

 

[elasalle]

Correct, as they aren't your shares at that point, you loaned them to someone else. (Can you drive your car while you have rented it to someone via Turo?) You are giving up your voting rights, and actual dividends, in return for whatever compensation you are getting to lend your shares.

OK, I think there are 2 scenarios here?

1. Institution reaches out to share owner and asks if he wants to lend his shares. In original owner agrees, then it is as you described.

2. the 401K funds etc who manage shares do not reach out to share owners. But they do lend out shares to borrowers without share owner consent. I was thinking about this as a while back (2-3 yrs) back, there was this item in news that institutions were lending out shares and the shares were getting used to short Tesla?

this thread used to also have a recommendation from time to time to place a sale price on your shares at a very high price, so that institutions could not lend out your shares.

 

[MP3Mike]

2. the 401K funds etc who manage shares do not reach out to share owners. But they do lend out shares to borrowers without share owner consent. I was thinking about this as a while back (2-3 yrs) back, there was this item in news that institutions were lending out shares and the shares were getting used to short Tesla?

They can't lend your shares without consent. Now if you are talking about shares held in a mutual fund or EFT, you don't own the shares and don't have the voting rights to begin with. (Though I think I heard some fund owners have started experimenting with a process to let people vote for their portion of the shares.)

But yes, some funds/ETFs lend out shares to increase their returns. (Or reduce the fees they have to charge holders.)

 

[cliff harris]

I don’t think they have even broke ground on the semi factory yet. I would think this is pushed to the next decade at this point, along with the factory in Mexico.

Jmho.

Based on what?
This sounds exactly like business insiders silly stories claiming the shanghai factory was just mud and would never get built. As someone who drove his shanghai built model Y only this morning, I can add a data point that the factory definitely got built and *checks notes* made quite a large number of vehicles.
Given the track record of Tesla since the roadster, assuming a vehicle will never get built, or pushed back to another decade is pretty hard to justify. People said the same thing about the Cybertruck.

 

[dhrivnak]

..
Also how do you only consume 1333kWh in a month, you don't have AC or an electric car I take it ? I consumed almost twice that in May. April which is the sweet spot in terms of heating and cooling I consumed 1700kWh.
...

Build an energy efficient home. I get by with 1040 kWh/month with 2 EVs and an all electric home. I do have passive solar, ICF walls and SIP roof.
www.amazon.com/Driving-Net-Stories-Carbon-Future/dp/0692143831

 

[UkNorthampton]

Based on what?
This sounds exactly like business insiders silly stories claiming the shanghai factory was just mud and would never get built. As someone who drove his shanghai built model Y only this morning, I can add a data point that the factory definitely got built and *checks notes* made quite a large number of vehicles.
Given the track record of Tesla since the roadster, assuming a vehicle will never get built, or pushed back to another decade is pretty hard to justify. People said the same thing about the Cybertruck.

Seems to me that Tesla only try to handle a small set of projects at once with a great team of world class people who can turn their hand to many complex problems, quickly becoming domain experts.

Sniper vs machine gun approach of other carmakers who announce & cancel plans all the time.

Really good use of money, so much more efficient.

What are the key bottlenecks at Tesla today? They might not be obvious to outsiders.

 

[Featsbeyond50]

Wow. This is the first interview or podcast I’ve heard from Rob where he’s defended Elon so strongly. Claims that all of Elon’s time at Twitter takes nothing away from Tesla. Could almost call Rob a bootlicker.

Despite Elon's many distractions he knows the Tesla business way better than the CEO of my company which is tiny compared to Tesla. CEOs just need to guide the big picture and Elon is able to do that plus get into the nitty gritty when he needs to.

 

[Webeevdrivers]

Based on what?
This sounds exactly like business insiders silly stories claiming the shanghai factory was just mud and would never get built. As someone who drove his shanghai built model Y only this morning, I can add a data point that the factory definitely got built and *checks notes* made quite a large number of vehicles.
Given the track record of Tesla since the roadster, assuming a vehicle will never get built, or pushed back to another decade is pretty hard to justify. People said the same thing about the Cybertruck.

Yah maybe. But it’s just how tesla rolls. I don’t have a problem with it. If they think it’s the wrong time to build a semi factory they are probably right. When they have the bugs worked out and they can sell it at a profit they’ll build it.

But with the exception of the model Y they are typically 4 to 6 years slow on product delivery. In the case of FSD it will be more like 10 or 12 years. But that’s another story.

I don’t buy into any of this 10 million cars a year by 2030 nonsense either. They might make 3 million and that’s a stretch. They are not entering any new markets or developing any new models. They can only sell so many of what they produce into existing markets. The supercharger advantage is gone and there are a ton of new models from other manufacturers hitting the market. None that I would want but companies like Hyundai are moving up the ladder fast. Once they are supercharger compatible they will take off like a bullet. And with a lot more varied models than Tesla. As soon as tesla makes them supercharger compatible Tesla will lose sales like crazy.

Jmho.