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Tesla Unionization
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
This is the Union's own news site reporting:
da-se.translate.goog
Unknown people in workshop clothes are said to have arrived by taxi during Monday morning at several Tesla workshops, according to pickets around the country.
- There are strikebreakers working inside the premises right now, says Carola Andersson, chairman of IF Metall in Umeå.
Around eight o'clock on Monday morning, a taxi arrived at Tesla's car workshop in Umeå, where almost all the workers went on strike last Friday. Strike guards from the trade union IF Metall noted how four people, dressed in workshop clothes, got out of the car and entered the workshop.
- Tesla has brought people here. There are strikebreakers working inside the premises right now. But we don't know who they are and where they came from, says Carola Andersson, chairman of IF Metall in Umeå.
Strike guards in Örebro also noted a taxi that on Monday morning dropped off at least one person outside the Tesla workshop in the city.
- There shouldn't be anyone working there. But through the window we have seen that there are at least three. We don't know them, they are not our members. We think it may be personnel who have been recruited from somewhere else, says Greger Kammerland, ombudsman for IF Metall in Örebro.
It should be noted that Umeå is in the north of Sweden, which is leaning more left than the south, and the north have had extensive de-industrialization with strong unions. So Tesla has found some non local workers and sent them to repair cars.
Letting other workers do the work of the striker is considered to be very bad according to the union and will greatly anger them. It's against Swedish traditions. Clearly Tesla intends to do business as usual.
Strejkbrytare anlände i taxi till Tesla-verkstäder runt om i landet
Företaget har tagit in strejkbrytare i hela landet – kom till Teslas verkstäder på måndagen - inte Metalls medlemmar
da-se.translate.goog
Unknown people in workshop clothes are said to have arrived by taxi during Monday morning at several Tesla workshops, according to pickets around the country.
- There are strikebreakers working inside the premises right now, says Carola Andersson, chairman of IF Metall in Umeå.
Around eight o'clock on Monday morning, a taxi arrived at Tesla's car workshop in Umeå, where almost all the workers went on strike last Friday. Strike guards from the trade union IF Metall noted how four people, dressed in workshop clothes, got out of the car and entered the workshop.
- Tesla has brought people here. There are strikebreakers working inside the premises right now. But we don't know who they are and where they came from, says Carola Andersson, chairman of IF Metall in Umeå.
Strike guards in Örebro also noted a taxi that on Monday morning dropped off at least one person outside the Tesla workshop in the city.
- There shouldn't be anyone working there. But through the window we have seen that there are at least three. We don't know them, they are not our members. We think it may be personnel who have been recruited from somewhere else, says Greger Kammerland, ombudsman for IF Metall in Örebro.
It should be noted that Umeå is in the north of Sweden, which is leaning more left than the south, and the north have had extensive de-industrialization with strong unions. So Tesla has found some non local workers and sent them to repair cars.
Letting other workers do the work of the striker is considered to be very bad according to the union and will greatly anger them. It's against Swedish traditions. Clearly Tesla intends to do business as usual.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
It seems to be based on a mash up of more than one article/reports. But one of the articles they're basing that reporting on seems to again be the 'kind of' by now 'familiar' article that was written by the President of Tesla Club Sweden...
And I've written about that Tesla Club Sweden article here:
Tesla Unionization
New thread following recent debate on possible Swedish unionisation raised by @SwedishAdvocate.
teslamotorsclub.com
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
According the union's own paper, Tesla will talk to the union some time tomorrow:
In Swedish:
da.se
In Swedish:
Beskedet från Tesla: Beredda att återuppta förhandlingar om kollektivavtal
”Jag hoppas att det finns möjlighet att lösa detta”, säger Veli-Pekka Säikkälä, IF Metall.
da.se
EVNow
Well-Known Member
I'm always pro-underdog. In most cases workers have vastly less power than the employer. That is why you need unions and collective bargaining.
The problem is - some people take for granted all the things achieved through a hundred years of hard work by unions. If you want to see how bad things were before unions - checkout some of the sweatshops in poorer regions of the world.
The problem is - some people take for granted all the things achieved through a hundred years of hard work by unions. If you want to see how bad things were before unions - checkout some of the sweatshops in poorer regions of the world.
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SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
One can also read about stuff like the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Fire in New York in 1911...
146 people died. Mostly girls and young women...
...] Although the floor had a number of exits, including two freight elevators, a fire escape, and stairways down to Greene Street and Washington Place, flames prevented workers from descending the Greene Street stairway, and the door to the Washington Place stairway was locked to prevent theft by the workers; the locked doors allowed managers to check the women's purses.[20] Various historians have also ascribed the exit doors being locked to management's wanting to keep out union organizers due to management's anti-union bias.[21][22][23] The foreman who held the stairway door key had already escaped by another route. [My underline.] [...
How many of you folks on this forum has read this book?
It is packed full of 'events' such as that fire...
It was written by Howard Zinn who was the former chair of the history and social sciences department at Spelman College. He was also a political science professor at Boston University.
And... He was a bombardier in the 490th Bombardment Group during WWII(!)... So he flew over Europe during WWII in of these:...
navguy12
Active Member
I read it about a decade ago; very enlightening if one has only been exposed to popular history.
No one doubts the excellent work unions have done in the past, or the fact that at many companies today unions are needed to prevent some companies taking unfair advantage of workers.
Those that have some doubts about whether unions are needed at Tesla (like me), are claiming Tesla is the exception, not the rule.
What is exceptional is a flat management structure, good communication, team spirit, a common mission, and reasonably empowered employees who seem to be fairly compensated. What part of this will unions improve?
My main concern is that unions will damage - "a flat management structure, good communication, and reasonably empowered employees"
Why I say that damage might occur is the union might get overly involved in communication between workers and management, reducing the amount of effective communication, and reducing trust.
When you don't have the disease even the best medication has unwanted side effects, for no real benefit.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Some Tesla workers say they'd never work in a unionized factory, even as Ford and GM workers are set to get a major pay boost
"Tesla still very much has a startup culture and that's a lot different than a union culture," one Tesla worker told Insider amid UAW's contract wins.
www.businessinsider.com
EVNow
Well-Known Member
We need to distinguish between shop workers and corporate workers, esp engineers. I'm sure engineers can easily quit and find another job. So, generally they have decent amount of power (more on that later).
For shop workers - all the above you note as "exceptional" are all claims by Tesla. How much of that is propaganda and how much is true, is anyone's guess.
But we've also seen reports of arbitrary and impulsive firings, widespread discrimination etc. Again how much of that is true, is anyone's guess.
Unions can definitely get militant and ruin industries. I've seen this first hand in Calcutta (West Bengal state, in general). What was once a bustling industrial city got bogged down in decade long strikes and finally got hollowed out as companies found it cheaper to just abandon the old factories and build new ones in other states. Union leaders would start strikes just to further their political career.
I've also seen first hand how my own father would have had to leave work early because of health issues but for union help in relocating him to a different role. Infact that helped me go through college ... otherwise may be I'd never be posting in this forum
I've to say whether the management structure is "flat" or not, employees are "empowered" or not - the balance of power is greatly tilted towards management. It is extremely difficult for blue collar workers (or for that matter engineers) to get a fair deal my bad managers - HR almost always sides with the manager. I've seen this first hand in dozens of cases in Microsoft and other IT companies. If the only other option is taking the company to court - 99% of the people will just move on instead of spend years fighting for justice. This is where unions can really help - not only can they be gaurd rails rogue managers would be afraid of, they can also amicably resolve disputes.
Prevention is the best cure
My point is that doesn't come for free, and it isn't free of consequences.Prevention is the best cure
The union is in the business of collecting fees from workers, naturally they want to expand their business, They need to do "something" to justify the fee payments.
I have an actual expiernece of how a Tesla service manager works, what the job entails and the dynamic within the team and across teams.
A service manger needs to be good at cooperative problem solving within their team and working with other service managers. I know this because I witnessed it first hand and I would score both service managers 10/10.
A service manager who isn't good at motivating and helping their team, working with other teams, liaising with customers. and creative problem solving will not last long in the job. There isn't the time for egos, there is too much to do.
A bad service manager or a bad technician will stand out at Tesla the results will speak for themselves.
Teams are small enough for managers to understand the capabilities of each worker.
In the service scenario I describe above where one repair technician isn't capable of repairing customer's cars to a safe standard, what is the role for the union?
Since I have provided an actual example of a team within Tesla working well, let's see if there is a counter example of a team within Tesla working badly. Not a hypothetical example based on another company, an actual example within Tesla.
I'm sure there are examples, but I don't think bad managers can last long at Tesla, there is nowhere to hide.
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To be clear, if union membership can be considered an "Insurance Policy" it should be up to individual workers as to whether or not they think they need it.
IMO the union should only intervene when it is needed, as distinct from creating a role to expand the fee base.
Tesla should no inhibit union membership, or discriminate against union members.
IMO the union should only intervene when it is needed, as distinct from creating a role to expand the fee base.
Tesla should no inhibit union membership, or discriminate against union members.
This raises a well known classic problem called a "free rider problem". Economists typically consider free rider problem to be an example of market failure.
Making people pay for service they don't want is also a problem.
The union is only obligated to act on behalf of customers.
Someone joining because they have a problem is an issue, but it is also good marketing for the union.
Anyone not in the union is negotiating their own wages.
If workers genuinely have a "free choice" that is the most efficient way to resolve the issue.
Collective bargaining will always have this type of conflict. If people don't have to pay, they become free riders. If they have to pay, they get the benefits but also the costs of the collective bargain. Efficiency has a specific meaning in economics, and free choice as you call it is actually not efficient. You are articulating a more simplistic common person's view of free choice and perhaps it makes sense to you. I'm just saying that the issue is a bit more complex than that from an economist's perspective.
If there is no minimum wage, then you can employ someone who is about to die of thirst in exchange for two glasses of juice and some might say that is a free choice. Others might call it exploitation. It depends on how simplistic you want to frame "choice" as.
All I am saying is I've seen no real evidence any of the Swedish Tesla workers want to join as union and want to collectively bargain.
Anyone who doesn't join the union isn't collectively bargaining. There has been no indication that wages are currently an issue and that workers would get higher wages if they were in a union.
But in particular, why are forces outside Tesla and it's workforce making this decision?
If Tesla is not allowing workers a "free choice" then they should be violating a law. If some are seeking to impose a union on workers without a "free choice", then that should be considered morally wrong.
So do you agree workers have the right to decide individually and collectively?
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