Tesla Unionization

[SwedishAdvocate]

And I am very skeptical of the, in my opinion, quite obvious corruption built in the system.

I have no idea what you are referring to here. What are you referring to?

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Swedish journalists are on the whole pretty good, but sometimes they are lazy and clearly influenced by the prevalent narrative. In this case, that Tesla is a big American company that does not respect Swedish rules and tries to destroy a model everybody benefits from. In my mind, all that is wholly or partially wrong, except that Tesla is large and American.

That's not the journalists at Swedish Public Service TV and Radio saying that. That would be the Union representative being interviewed. And the journalist in Public Service TV and Radio will always start the segment by informing everyone that they've reached out to Tesla who had no comment. Or if they did, that comment was merely to refer to one of the two or three press releases that they've put out. The rest of the segment is usually some background about the conflict and then an interview with the Union representative.

 

[CitizenKane]

That's not the journalists at Swedish Public Service TV and Radio saying that. That would be the Union representative being interviewed. And the journalist in Public Service TV and Radio will always start the segment by informing everyone that they've reached out to Tesla who had no comment. Or if they did, that comment was merely to refer to one of the two or three press releases that they've put out. The rest of the segment is usually some background about the conflict and then an interview with the Union representative.

Just letting one side tell their side and not trying to present an angle just because the other side wishes not to comment is exactly what I mean with lazy journalism. And you do not need to be very conspiratorial to doubt that they would accept that way of telling news if the only opinion stated was for instance one coming from a large corporation, in which case Swedish journalists are very quick to distrust and feel the need to balance whatever that message is. Unions are however often treated as some kind of semi official organisation that cannot be believed to have an agenda.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Just letting one side tell their side and not trying to present an angle just because the other side wishes not to comment is exactly what I mean with lazy journalism. And you do not need to be very conspiratorial to doubt that they would accept that way of telling news if the only opinion stated was for instance one coming from a large corporation, in which case Swedish journalists are very quick to distrust and feel the need to balance whatever that message is. Unions are however often treated as some kind of semi official organisation that cannot be believed to have an agenda.

Of course the Unions has an agenda. Who doubts that?

So since Tesla won't participate – how are they supposed to 'balance out' the Union? If Tesla is referring to a press release, then they always read that press release. And if it's on the telly, then they also put it up on the screen.

The Public Service journos even acknowledge 'the meta aspect' of the situation. But when doing so they again explain why that is – namely Tesla's non-participation.

 

[CitizenKane]

I have no idea what you are referring to here. What are you referring to?

Which only goes to show - in my opinion - how indoctrinated we are in this respect in Sweden. Both the unions and the employer confederations have what is very close to taxation rights through their unemployment insurance and collective bargaining agreements. The "voluntary" collective bargaining are not very voluntary at all, as this conflict shows, and the fees paid to unions and confederations go to the organisations so they can pay ridiculously high salaries to their bureaucrat officers, to pay political parties that promote their agendas and to lobby by themselves. Through collective bargaining agreements, provision for pensions funds are routed to pension funds owned by the unions and confederations (the same pension funds that are now very vocally attacking Tesla by the way) and these funds give questionable returns to retirees while also paying high salaries to their own directors and officers, who are, by the way, most often people with some kind of union background. But, like you, most Swedes see nothing corrupt in this at all because (i) it's always been like this and (ii) how could Swedes ever be corrupt - hey we are the greatest country in the world with the most honest people, right? Not like those crazy French and Italians..

 

[CitizenKane]

Of course the Unions has an agenda. Who doubts that?

So since Tesla won't participate – how are they supposed to 'balance out' the Union? If Tesla is referring to a press release, then they always read that press release. And if it's on the telly, then they also put it up on the screen.

You seem not to understand what a journalist's role is. Their role is to seek the truth and present fair, unbiased news, not to parrot sources.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

You seem not to understand what a journalist's role is. Their role is to seek the truth and present fair, unbiased news, not to parrot sources.

?

They do not parrot. They interview. Quite the difference...

But it seems we won't be able to agree on that one...

 

[adiggs]

That's not the journalists at Swedish Public Service TV and Radio saying that. That would be the Union representative being interviewed. And the journalist in Public Service TV and Radio will always start the segment by informing everyone that they've reached out to Tesla who had no comment. Or if they did, that comment was merely to refer to one of the two or three press releases that they've put out. The rest of the segment is usually some background about the conflict and then an interview with the Union representative.

As frustrating as it is to many people, investors and not, Tesla pretty much never provides a comment to the media on any topic. That isn't new - it was true back in 2012 when I first started following the company, and has been consistently true ever since.

I'm not sure how I feel about that. The generous part of me is that Tesla lets their actions do their talking. A benefit of not responding is that they don't provide raw material for people to misinterpret and use against them (which you just know is what will happen).

An obvious disadvantage is that we don't hear Tesla's point of view - we get to infer it from actions.


My feeling is that Tesla has enough experience with "journalists" that have a particular article they want to write, where that article is really FUD / hit piece whatever Tesla says, that its better to just not engage with them. It can be hard to spot these people ahead of time, so just stay out of it. It's a pretty remarkable level of discipline and certainly flies in the face of common wisdom - that you get your quote and point of view out there.

 

[Tiger]

?

They do not parrot. They interview. Quite the difference...

But it seems we won't be able to agree on that one...

That is not how it is supposed to be. Journalists are supposed to be like crime detectives. Trust no one and draw their own conclusions and present them to the grand jury (the audience). Today's "journalists" are more like lawyers, for a fee they will sing anyone's tune in any key, and if an opponent is available for cross-examination, they might do it (if and how it favors their client), otherwise the opponent is out of luck. Gross incompetence in Journalistic sense.

 

[heltok]

Seems like the Union is throwing Veli-Pekka under the bus:

Tidigare metallbas kritisk – pekar ut ansvarig i förbundsledningen

”Jag hade reagerat direkt,” säger Anders Ferbe efter DA:s avslöjande om förbundsjuristen.

da.se

Former metal base critical - points out the person responsible in the union leadership​

Published 2024-01-30, 10:28
Anders Ferbe, vice chairman of IF Metall when Davidovic was appointed in 2011, says he did not know about the federal lawyer's lack of credentials.
- Neither I nor Stefan (Löfven, editor's note) were directly involved in the employment matter, he says.
On the other hand, he points out the person in the union leadership who was responsible.

In an investigation, Dagens Arbete has revealed how IF Metall's union lawyer Darko Davidovic had a series of side assignments that may conflict with IF Metall's internal guidelines. The review has also shown that he was on paid leave from IF Metall to train as a lawyer - without taking any university credits. Despite his lack of education, he got the job as federal lawyer in 2011.
Dagens Arbete has asked IF Metall questions about how it actually happened.
We have sought the then chairman Stefan Löfven, but he has not returned. Anders Ferbe was vice chairman at the time and then took over the chairmanship in 2012 when Stefan Löfven became party leader of the Social Democrats.
Anders Ferbe believes that neither he nor Stefan Löfven knew about Darko Davidovic's lack of academic credentials.
- This is completely new information for me. Neither I nor Stefan (Löfven, editor's note) were directly involved in the employment matter, he says.

The picture we got was that he had completed his training.
Anders Ferbe

The proposal that Darko Davidovic would become a federal lawyer was presented as a matter for the federal board around 2010. According to Anders Ferbe, he then received information that Darko Davidovic had a law degree.
- When the case was presented to the federal board, the information was that there was a completed training. I naturally assumed that it was checked correctly, he says.
Darko Davidovic has told himself that he was off for two years with salary from IF Metall to complete his law degree. But during the years he stated, he did not take any college credits, the DA's review shows.

It's completely new information for me, says Anders Ferbe, who was chairman of IF Metall when federal lawyer Darko Davidovic took on several side assignments. Photo: TT News Agency

“Very remarkable”​

When Dagens Arbete requests a complete extract from the register of his university studies, it turns out that he studied law in total corresponding to just under two semesters of full-time studies. A full law degree takes a total of nine semesters.
- It sounds very remarkable. The picture we got was that he had completed his training. In any case, no information was given that he had not. I had remembered that. Otherwise, this was an employment case that was prepared in the usual way and presented as a draft decision. And then we made that decision, he says.
Who was responsible for checking whether the academic qualifications were correct?
- Pekka (Veli-Pekka Säikkälä, editor's note) was contract secretary and as head of department he naturally had a special responsibility. This type of matter is also prepared by the personnel department, he says.
Dagens Arbete has asked IF Metall who was the head of personnel during the time of the employment, without receiving an answer. IF Metall's contract secretary Veli-Pekka Säikkälä has declined to comment and refers via the press department to the external review appointed by the union.

"Had no idea"​

Dagens Arbetes' review also shows that Darko Davidovic had a large number of side assignments as a lawyer, where he represented both private individuals and companies in the Eskilstuna area.
Among other things, he represented the owners of the pub Harrys when they appealed their revoked alcohol license in 2014, at the same time as a union lawyer at IF Metall. In court, the police testified that the pub owners saw crime and "positively treated criminals differently" between their fingers.
In 2014, Anders Ferbe was union chairman for IF Metall.
Did you know this?
- No, I have no idea. This is completely new information for me. If it had been a question that had come up in the union leadership, then I would have reacted immediately. This sounds very strange.
How reasonable is it as a federal lawyer to represent someone who the police believe "positively discriminates against criminals" in their pub?
- It is completely unreasonable. Had I been made aware of it, I would have said that this is not compatible with the mission, he says.

Restrictive with side missions​

According to Anders Ferbe, employees at the federal office must be very restrictive when it comes to side assignments.
- I am very doubtful whether as a federal lawyer you should get involved in cases outside IF Metall at all. Those are the rules we have at the union. It must be very specific if you are to have any other assignments, he says.
Darko Davidovic himself says that management has been fully informed about his side activities?
- Yes? I haven't heard anything then. But I haven't had the relationship that he reported to me. He reports to his boss. One is the head of the negotiation unit, the other is the contract secretary. It is if Pekka (Veli-Pekka Säikkälä) knows anything? I do not know? he says.

 

[Tiger]

Great excuse to fire (also) Pekka (Veli-Pekka Säikkälä) and change course. Hope they get good severance pay from the union

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Which only goes to show - in my opinion - how indoctrinated we are in this respect in Sweden. Both the unions and the employer confederations have what is very close to taxation rights through their unemployment insurance and collective bargaining agreements. The "voluntary" collective bargaining are not very voluntary at all, as this conflict shows, and the fees paid to unions and confederations go to the organisations so they can pay ridiculously high salaries to their bureaucrat officers, to pay political parties that promote their agendas and to lobby by themselves. Through collective bargaining agreements, provision for pensions funds are routed to pension funds owned by the unions and confederations (the same pension funds that are now very vocally attacking Tesla by the way) and these funds give questionable returns to retirees while also paying high salaries to their own directors and officers, who are, by the way, most often people with some kind of union background. But, like you, most Swedes see nothing corrupt in this at all because (i) it's always been like this and (ii) how could Swedes ever be corrupt - hey we are the greatest country in the world with the most honest people, right? Not like those crazy French and Italians..

You just described one version of a Democracy where people are free to organize.

1. A Union is going to be whatever the members make of it. Will it be perfect? Probably not – but I'm still going to take an imperfect Union over no Union.

2. There's a reason why the Union is politically active. A look at our history going back ~200 years will at least tell me why.

3. Re: Pension funds: These things can be changed so I honestly don't see the problem...

4. I don't know enough about France and Italy to say with 100% certainty if Sweden is better or not.

But look...

We're obviously not going to agree on this one, and I still don't see the point in debating this with 10(?)+ of you guys by myself so I'm just going to leave it at that.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

That is not how it is supposed to be. Journalists are supposed to be like crime detectives. Trust no one and draw their own conclusions and present them to the grand jury (the audience). Today's "journalists" are more like lawyers, for a fee they will sing anyone's tune in any key, and if an opponent is available for cross-examination, they might do it (if and how it favors their client), otherwise the opponent is out of luck. Gross incompetence in Journalistic sense.

That kind of investigate journalism exists as well in Sweden. But a 30-45 minute news program – completely void of commercial brakes mind you – is not going to dedicate the entire time slot to a strike at Tesla in Sweden. That just isn't going to happen. Any given day will have other things that also deserves journalistic coverage, and todays version of Swedish Public Service News – radio or TV – does have a limited budget – believe it or not...

 

[Krugerrand]

Hehe, a bit tired in the morning. The Union making more fool out of themselves. Too long article to copy, read it translated here:

IF Metalls förbundsjurist byggde karriären på en lögn

Darko Davidovic har byggt sin karriär på en juristutbildning han inte har. Han har också haft många sidouppdrag och bolagsaffärer som kan stå i strid med IF Metalls uppförandekod.

da-se.translate.goog

Darko Davidovic is IF Metall's top lawyer.

Dagens Arbete can show that, in addition to his job, he engaged in million-dollar deals and side missions - in some cases in conflict with his employment.

Now he is in the middle of a lawsuit and has ended up with the Crown Bailiff.

He has built his long career on an education he does not have.

Shocked I say! Shocked!

 

[2daMoon]

?

It's online and free.

I was making jest at how, as reported by a former union member Tesla employee, the benefit of union membership can be summed up as an over-priced magazine subscription.

Therefore, it is not surprising that the Union magazine broke the story.

 

[Krugerrand]

I was making jest at how, as reported by a former union member Tesla employee, the benefit of union membership can be summed up as an over-priced magazine subscription.

Therefore, it is not surprising that the Union magazine broke the story.

I have come to know the Swedish lack the ability to understand sarcasm and have minimal sense of humor.

 

[CitizenKane]

I have come to know the Swedish lack the ability to understand sarcasm and have minimal sense of humor.

Oh no, we have been exposed.

 

[2daMoon]

?

They do not parrot. They interview. Quite the difference...

But it seems we won't be able to agree on that one...

Ha ha ha... have you presented anything at all throughout this union debacle that anyone else has agreed upon?

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

?

It's online and free.

I was making jest at how, as reported by a former union member Tesla employee, the benefit of union membership can be summed up as an over-priced magazine subscription.

Therefore, it is not surprising that the Union magazine broke the story.

I have come to know the Swedish lack the ability to understand sarcasm and have minimal sense of humor.

Of course you have...

Contrary to 'popular opinion'...

1. I havent read this entire thread. That would be a giant waste of time. IMO of course.
2. I have very far from a perfect memory. Unfortunately.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

Ha ha ha... have you presented anything at all throughout this union debacle that anyone else has agreed upon?

Do you think I'm going to go trough 67 pages and check?...

But off the top of my head I would say probably yes. Many of my posts in this thread have received both likes and/or hearts...