Tesla Unionization

[SwedishAdvocate]

@SwedishAdvocate , here's a refresher of the initial and ongoing unanswered questions put to you.

1. Has Tesla Sweden broken any laws?​

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2. Is there any evidence to indicate Tesla Sweden's working conditions are sub-par?​

​

3. Are Tesla Sweden employees paid more than IF Metall would consider appropriate?​

​

4. Can you explain:​

A. how only 8% of Tesla Sweden employees have joined the IF Metall union?​

B. how only half of those union members at Tesla Sweden chose to strike?​

C. how some of those who did strike have now gone back to work at Tesla Sweden?​

​

5. What is the actual basis for this unprovoked attack by IF Metall upon a law abiding Swedish company creating jobs with excellent working conditions and above standard pay?​

Your point 3 above is just completely uncalled for union hate/smearing.

I've answered all of the other questions you list here. Go back and read from the beginning.

 

[Todd Burch]

I've reduced my time in this thread to an absolute minimum. Like I've stated previously up-thread: What's the point of arguing with a fence post?

No matter what I write there will be ~5-10 of you union haters posting whatever. And unfortunately I don't have an unlimited amount of time to spend here.

You seem to find time to post and comment on articles, yet find none to rebut any legitimate questions or criticisms.

For the record I had no inherent predispositions against unions. I am smart enough to understand something before forming an opinion on it. Instead, my dislike for them has been acquired over decades of experience in observing union and non-union facilities, as well as observing their behaviors over decades.

 

[SwedishAdvocate]

You seem to find time to post and comment on articles, yet find none to rebut any legitimate questions or criticisms.

For the record I had no inherent predispositions against unions. I am smart enough to understand something before forming an opinion on it. Instead, my dislike for them has been acquired over decades of experience in observing union and non-union facilities, as well as observing their behaviors over decades.

See my previous post.

 

[2daMoon]

Big surprise that non-union workshops don't report injuries to authorties. Who is surprised by this?

Your own BIG PROOF has literally no explanation for WHY, so it's useless without further study.

I like how you think winning some internet argumnet with a link that barely supports your cause is some mic drop moment and tesla will maybe find your post and finally pick a strategy and win this battle against the unions lol

Tesla lost this battle before it even began, but keep claiming how lifes unfair and the unions are being jerks. Just as a sidenote, the kind of indifference you and various other posters show to the plight of the working man, to the people who are actually MAKING the vision, the mission you all so hold dearly.

It provides excellent marketing material, so thanks for being so callous and jovial about peoples misery. It's very useful to see the tesla mask off.

Yet you continue to avoid identifying any specific "working man" suffering from this "plight" in regard to the topic of Tesla Sweden and IF Metall.

Clearly, it isn't Tesla Sweden employees, as has been substantiated from multiple first-hand reports from actual employees. The ridiculously low union participation at Tesla Sweden (8% compared to the national rate of 70%) further substantiates how there may be another reason behind this.

What have you got to offer to substantiate your claims?
Emotional outburst through a keyboard and low-level trolling skillz fall significantly short of achieving this.

 

[2daMoon]

See my previous post.

You mean the post where you again avoid to address questions? That post?

 

[Krugerrand]

@SwedishAdvocate , here's a refresher of the initial and ongoing unanswered questions put to you.

1. Has Tesla Sweden broken any laws?​

​

2. Is there any evidence to indicate Tesla Sweden's working conditions are sub-par?​

​

3. Are Tesla Sweden employees paid more than IF Metall would consider appropriate?​

​

4. Can you explain:​

A. how only 8% of Tesla Sweden employees have joined the IF Metall union?​

B. how only half of those union members at Tesla Sweden chose to strike?​

C. how some of those who did strike have now gone back to work at Tesla Sweden?​

​

5. What is the actual basis for this unprovoked attack by IF Metall upon a law abiding Swedish company creating jobs with excellent working conditions and above standard pay?​

I appreciate you continuing to try and put him on topic and get the valid questions answered, but he doesn’t have time to answer those relevant questions. He only has time to Google and link to irrelevant, non-topic, clickbait media articles.

He can’t answer the questions without admitting the union model he has known his whole life is at best seriously flawed, at worst; corrupt. He’d have to admit Tesla hasn’t done anything lawfully wrong and has already more than fulfilled collective agreement parameters. He’d have to admit IF Metall has overstepped and isn’t in fact working on behalf of Swedish countrymen, which is supposed to be its mandate.

So yeah, he’s never going to answer.

 

[Krugerrand]

much easier to just pretend that Musk isn't a terrible boss and treats his employees like *sugar*, I love how the new members, who weren't aroundn for the golden days of tesla and the media love relationship that can now parrot this media conspiracy angle as if the last decade didn't exist lol

sorry to tell you it's no longer 2013 when Musk was hanging out with Leo Decaprios and the media was fawning over every little proclamation he made, now he hangs with the likes of nazi and dog killer, ian miles cheon on twitter, *sugar* posting about mafia conspiracies and childrens cartoons mistreating him. the media has likewise changed their reporting.

it's more truthful now, crazy I know.

Or the alternative is, only 2-3 blogs and twitter accounts with blue checkmarks that own stocks, those are the only sources of real truth.

When did you personally work for Elon and what did he do to you?

 

[Zuikkis]

IMHO, that is complete nonsense.

At least the Russia connection would give a logical explanation for IF Metall's enthusiasm.

 

[2daMoon]

Your point 3 above is just completely uncalled for union hate/smearing.

I've answered all of the other questions you list here. Go back and read from the beginning.

Point 3 is hate/smearing?

How does the fact that IF Metall commented on Tesla Sweden paying above the recommended union rate win such a classification?

How was the IF Metall spokesperson hating/smearing when they shared this as a quote in a news article?


But, let's roll with your claim that you have answered the others, and that those answers support how no law has been broken, no worker conditions exist that would justify the attack, union membership is significantly lower at Tesla Sweden, and of the mere handful of employees who are members only half of them joined the strike with some coming back to work.

I don't recall an answer from you for number 5 that went into actual detail, beyond the most general of vague description that did more to confuse than to provide any facts to support this wide-spread attack upon an innocent, law-abiding, Swedish company.

Please elaborate upon a precise definition of the victim IF Metall is fighting for.

Could it be IF Metall is only fighting this fight in order to maintain its own relevance in a changing world?

 

[Krugerrand]

Big surprise that non-union workshops don't report injuries to authorties. Who is surprised by this?

Your own BIG PROOF has literally no explanation for WHY, so it's useless without further study.

I like how you think winning some internet argumnet with a link that barely supports your cause is some mic drop moment and tesla will maybe find your post and finally pick a strategy and win this battle against the unions lol

Tesla lost this battle before it even began, but keep claiming how lifes unfair and the unions are being jerks. Just as a sidenote, the kind of indifference you and various other posters show to the plight of the working man, to the people who are actually MAKING the vision, the mission you all so hold dearly.

It provides excellent marketing material, so thanks for being so callous and jovial about peoples misery. It's very useful to see the tesla mask off.

Read a little further. Don’t cherry pick what suits you and take it out of context.

Let me help you; there were conflicting studies and a whole host of reasons were given for both study results; including those that showed union membership increased injury rates.

So my link actually proved that @SwedishAdvocate non-investigative reporting, media circus, clickbait source link didn’t prove his passive aggressive suggestion that unions lower workplace injuries. They don’t anymore than non-union workplaces do. It’s a complete fictitious, BS, brainwashed theory.

 

[Krugerrand]

Your point 3 above is just completely uncalled for union hate/smearing.

You can’t be serious?

 

[2daMoon]

I appreciate you continuing to try and put him on topic and get the valid questions answered, but he doesn’t have time to answer those relevant questions. He only has time to Google and link to irrelevant, non-topic, clickbait media articles.

He can’t answer the questions without admitting the union model he has known his whole life is at best seriously flawed, at worst; corrupt. He’d have to admit Tesla hasn’t done anything lawfully wrong and has already more than fulfilled collective agreement parameters. He’d have to admit IF Metall has overstepped and isn’t in fact working on behalf of Swedish countrymen, which is supposed to be its mandate.

So yeah, he’s never going to answer.

The replies weren't for them.

They were for anyone who stumbles onto this thread, so they may go away with tools to evaluate baseless claims and discard ad hominem attack strategies in order to see the absence of any foundation to support them.

Logic and reason are skills learned, just doing my part to share.

 

[Krugerrand]

I work with spacex contractors and I hear their stories, goddamn what a shithole. their redmond space is hilarious, got a walkthrough of the 'presentation' area of staged equipment that gets used for VC walkthroughs, It's one of the most 'fake it till you make it' things ive ever seen in my professional life. so ya, I want musk and his companies out of my state. that's why it's personal, because I've seen first hand the way employees get treated working under the musk leadership.

So, you don’t work for and never have worked for Elon and have nothing more than secondhand information.

Want to hear my secondhand information from employees that love their jobs, are delighted to work for Elon, and have nothing negative to say? I even have a ton of thirdhand information via people on this forum having talked with hundreds and hundreds of employees over the last decade all saying they heard the same things I have.

Now what? I can help you find a therapist for your misplaced anger and hatred.

 

[Krugerrand]

If you repeat yourself enough eventually it will come true, it's history throughout the 20th century that's wrong, not you, it's peoples lived experiences. You've certainly never been brainwashed, I mean how could you, no, it's everyone else that's brainwashed, you and musk, alpha heros of high intellects going their own way

Ditto. That means the same applies to the stories you tell yourself.

I do thank you for continuing to post until you revealed the true source of your discontent. It allows people to know your ulterior motives as to why you refuse to stay on topic, but rather flamboyantly obfuscate.

Which bridge do you have for sale?

 

[Tiger]

I work with spacex contractors and I hear their stories, goddamn what a shithole. their redmond space is hilarious, got a walkthrough of the 'presentation' area of staged equipment that gets used for VC walkthroughs, It's one of the most 'fake it till you make it' things ive ever seen in my professional life. so ya, I want musk and his companies out of my state. that's why it's personal, because I've seen first hand the way employees get treated working under the musk leadership.

It is how all business is done. Just don't go as far as Nikola.

 

[BioSehnsucht]

Re: SpaceX injury rates and "industry averages"

I recall this was posted to the SpaceX Reddit when the article was first published and I don't recall specifics but various comments pointed out that comparing SpaceX to someplace like Boeing or such (i.e. aerospace industry) currently didn't make sense , it would make more sense to compare to heavy industry (big steel works, working at great heights, etc) vs modern aerospace that has a lot less potential for injury. From memory, the injury rate compared to heavy industry was more or less average.

Of course it might be that 90% of injuries are due to people tripping over uncovered network cables in the office instead of injuries on the many high risk jobs around Boca, but nobody without an agenda has access to the data to prove it I've way it the other.

 

[heltok]

View attachment 997878

In this interview in Swedish, the Union representative says that, in their view, collective agreements are not voluntary and that you are supposed to join them. They say this goes back to 1938. So I guess that the unions disagree on the voluntary part...

Strejkvakter vid Teslas nya anläggning i Jönköping stannar i kylan

IF Metall viker sig inte för snön och kylan. Sedan Tesla öppnade sitt servicecenter i Jönköping i tisdags har strejkvakter varit på plats utanför anläggningen, i gula västar.

www.svt.se

 

[mars_or_bust]

View attachment 997878

bolshevik bastards

 

[mars_or_bust]

I'm not sure of Boca, but one unscheduled visit to their Redmond location will tell you it's not network cables, its seemingly unqualified forklift drivers working in unsecured areas, that sort of thing. basic warehouse things that have been figured out decades ago. the security as far as I saw was basically non-existent. So if you're ever in washington, by all means stop by their facility. You can just walk in and look around at the shitshow on display, every worker seemingly working for a separate contractor with only a tiny handful of actual spacex employees looking bored. healthcare insurance companies have better security than that location, it's wild. no wonder you guys get such great drone footage of the factories.

Yeah, it means it should be easy for sweden to have much better run rocket companies. Oh wait...

 

[heltok]