2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Personal Protection Device. Goggles, Hard Hat, Gloves, Welding Helmet, etc.
I've edited the original to the full name.
Edit: It is actually PPEquipment. I misremembered the acronym.
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Tesla Unionization
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
Personal Protection Device. Goggles, Hard Hat, Gloves, Welding Helmet, etc.
I've edited the original to the full name.
Edit: It is actually PPEquipment. I misremembered the acronym.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
That rate already exists.
...] Injury rates at some SpaceX facilities are much higher than the industry average of .8 injuries or illnesses per 100 workers, Reuters found. At its Brownsville, Texas location, the 2022 injury rate was 4.8 per 100 workers. At the Hawthorne, California manufacturing facility, it was 1.8. In McGregor, Texas, where the company conducts rocket tests, the injury rate was 2.7. [...
SpaceX workers face above-average injury rates as Musk prioritizes Mars over safety, report finds
A Reuters investigation into SpaceX has uncovered more than 600 injuries going back to 2014, at multiple facilities across the country. Workers who spoke to the publication said CEO Elon Musk prioritizes getting to Mars over safety protocols.www.engadget.com
Krugerrand
Meow
SpaceX workers face above-average injury rates as Musk prioritizes Mars over safety, report finds
A Reuters investigation found hundreds of previously unreported injuries.
Sat, Nov 11, 2023
A Reuters investigation into unsafe working conditions at SpaceX has uncovered more than 600 injuries going back to 2014 that have not been publicly reported until now. Current and former employees cited in the report blame CEO Elon Musk’s aggressive deadlines and hatred of bureaucracy, alleging his goal of getting humans to Mars “as fast as possible” has led the company to cut corners and eschew proper protocols.
Injury rates at some SpaceX facilities are much higher than the industry average of .8 injuries or illnesses per 100 workers, Reuters found. At its Brownsville, Texas location, the 2022 injury rate was 4.8 per 100 workers. At the Hawthorne, California manufacturing facility, it was 1.8. In McGregor, Texas, where the company conducts rocket tests, the injury rate was 2.7.
Employees have suffered broken bones, lacerations, crushed fingers, burns, electric shocks and serious head wounds — including one that blinded Brownsville worker Florentino Rios in 2021 and another that left employee Francisco Cabada in a coma since January 2022. At SpaceX’s McGregor site, one worker, Lonnie LeBlanc, was killed in 2014 when wind knocked him off the trailer of an improperly loaded truck. [...
SpaceX workers face above-average injury rates as Musk prioritizes Mars over safety, report finds
A Reuters investigation into SpaceX has uncovered more than 600 injuries going back to 2014, at multiple facilities across the country. Workers who spoke to the publication said CEO Elon Musk prioritizes getting to Mars over safety protocols.
RISK OF INJURY BY UNIONIZATION: SURVIVAL ANALYSIS OF A LARGE INDUSTRIAL COHORT
To investigate the effect of union status on injury risk among a large industrial cohort.The cohort included hourly employees at 19 U.S. plants between 2000–2007. Plants were classified by union status, and injuries were classified by severity. ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Very interesting.RISK OF INJURY BY UNIONIZATION: SURVIVAL ANALYSIS OF A LARGE INDUSTRIAL COHORT
To investigate the effect of union status on injury risk among a large industrial cohort.The cohort included hourly employees at 19 U.S. plants between 2000–2007. Plants were classified by union status, and injuries were classified by severity. ...
From that article...
Results
A total of 26,462 workers were included: 18,955 (72%) unionized and 7,507 (28%) non-unionized. Unionworkers incurred 3,194 injuries (16.9%) compared to 618 injuries for non-union workers (8.2%). After adjustingfor multiple covariates, union workers had a 51% higher risk of reportable injury.Conclusions
Our results provide evidence for higher risk of reportable injuries in union workers; explanations for this increased risk remain unclear.Probably a good thing that SpaceX isn't a union shop, eh?
Above average compared to what? Other commercial space companies? Could you name a few, and what are their injury rates?
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
I think that "industry average" is a wide brush and may fall short of narrowing it down well enough to provide context to those jobs routinely doing similar work. Prototyping and building spacecraft may be a bit different of a working environment from, say, working in an Amazon or Walmart distribution center.
Did you have any further detail on how that term applies in this report?
Perhaps examples of other companies included under that umbrella description?
Reuters has a reputation of being haphazard when it comes to clarifying something in a way that might reduce clicks or article adoption/distribution. Being vague and sensational seem to be their forte.
Edit: Oh, and enlighten us as to how this has any bearing on the topic of conversation, IF Metall's attack on an innocent company and its employees, which you seem to be uncomfortable answering questions about.
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SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
Again – see my previous post:
Tesla Unionization
Wow, and Reuters has always been so kind to Elon in the past. How disappointing. /S I'm sure a follow up report will be forthcoming showing how this compares to the rates at similar industries for context, and, adds details from OSHA investigations on whether or not the injured employees were...
teslamotorsclub.com
Krugerrand
Meow
Right!?
I can play the link game just as well, nay, better, than our Swedish friend.
If you read further they go on to talk about opposing views and studies on the topic and possible theories for each.
In conclusion, there is ZERO concrete, factual evidence that unionizing reduces injury rates or that not having a union increases them. Or vice versa. There are far too many variables and unknowns to draw any kind of logical conclusion.
Who’d have thunk building rockets could be dangerous in the first place and what exactly does any of this have to do with IF METALL trying to force Tesla (note not SpaceX @SwedishAdvocate) to a collective agreement that isn’t a requirement by law, and then going on public record that they aren’t doing it for Tesla employee benefits, which they also publicly admitted are being paid and compensated for at above industry and union standards, but doing it because they are afraid other companies will follow suit making them irrelevant.
It’s ok, I don’t actually expect you, @SwedishAdvocate, to stay on topic nor answer the question. You want to obfuscate because you’re afraid too.
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
I've reduced my time in this thread to an absolute minimum. Like I've stated previously up-thread: What's the point of arguing with a fence post?
No matter what I write there will be ~5-10 of you union haters posting whatever. And unfortunately I don't have an unlimited amount of time to spend here.
Krugerrand
Meow
Technically, SpaceX is a private rocket company so their injury rates should be compared to other private rocket companies first and foremost for equivalent parameters - oh, wait.
But let’s not allow this poster to derail this thread, which has nothing to do with SpaceX or workplace injuries at SpaceX or workplace injuries at Swedish Tesla.
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2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Whatever you write?
You have refused to respond in any way to clarify key aspects of the posts you make, which you then abandon without substantiation.
You will have to do better before you can claim that you have even entered into the debate at all.
The Swedish Unions know that membership is optional for Swedish companies, yet they use rank coercion tatics to bully companies into this protection racket.
Tesla is smart. They see how much more successful non-unionized auto companies are overall, and wish to use that model.
Unions should offer a better, instead of worse, option.
Elon says he is open to Unions, if their workers freely vote it in.
Nobody likes things crammed down their throats.
Tesla is smart. They see how much more successful non-unionized auto companies are overall, and wish to use that model.
Unions should offer a better, instead of worse, option.
Elon says he is open to Unions, if their workers freely vote it in.
Nobody likes things crammed down their throats.
Krugerrand
Meow
Thank you for proving the following points;
1. You refuse to answer any questions of relevancy to the original topic.
2. That what time you do spend here is to obfuscate. Didn’t like my refutation of your ridiculous article link, huh?
3. And it takes a fence post to know a fence post.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
@SwedishAdvocate , here's a refresher of the initial and ongoing unanswered questions put to you.
1. Has Tesla Sweden broken any laws?
2. Is there any evidence to indicate Tesla Sweden's working conditions are sub-par?
3. Are Tesla Sweden employees paid more than IF Metall would consider appropriate?
4. Can you explain:
A. how only 8% of Tesla Sweden employees have joined the IF Metall union?
B. how only half of those union members at Tesla Sweden chose to strike?
C. how some of those who did strike have now gone back to work at Tesla Sweden?
5. What is the actual basis for this unprovoked attack by IF Metall upon a law abiding Swedish company creating jobs with excellent working conditions and above standard pay?
Stepping back a little, the only ones that have already won this conflict is Russia/FSB with their stated goal to start conflicts in the west and in EU.
IMHO
Edit: Adding a bit background to why I think so,
yle-fi.translate.goog
IMHO
Edit: Adding a bit background to why I think so,
MOT sai haltuunsa salaisen tiedusteluraportin, jonka mukaan Venäjä suunnitteli häiritsevänsä Suomen ja Ruotsin liittymistä Natoon
Suojelupoliisi vahvistaa tienneensä Venäjän tiedustelupalvelun suunnitelmista mielenosoitusten lietsomiseksi.
yle-fi.translate.goog
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2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
It looks like there are a total of seven "cross-union" representatives gathered to celebrate their achievements.
One for every Tesla Sweden employee still on strike.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Wanna get back on topic?
Care to tackle any of the questions I posted above?
No? I didn't think so.
Facts aren't very effective as ammunition for an ad hominem attack strategy, are they?
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
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