Tesla Virtual Power Plant in CA

[dortor4ev]

as we all saw there was a recent grid event - when was it - I have no idea because once it's over there is no record of it in the app…

hmmmm - if only there were a mechanism where Tesla "logged/recorded" discharge events like an "impact log" where they could list extended periods of time when powerwalls were discharged…

My Proposal is that grid events should be "added" to the list of "events" that currently only shows "grid outage" events…

I'd like some record of discharge events.

 

[djlandkpl]

I'm on Connected Solutions which is a VPP on the East Coast. The old version of the Tesla app had a section for Grid Services which tracked discharge events like Home use, solar production and grid activity. When the app was "upgraded" to version 4, grid services tracking was removed. I would like to see it brought back.

 

[astrorob]

I noticed during the VPP event, that I was sending exactly 4 kW to the grid for the full 3 hours.
That is the site export limit set in my gateway, matching my 4 kWp Solar.
If PG&E needs more energy, why not pull more, up to my reserve limit?
Since I have 2PW, presumably the PW could sustain 10 kW, and send that minus the house load during the event.
I get that the grid may not want us exporting normally at full boar, and could have limits based on local equipment, but it makes sense to have a 2nd export limit when its to their (PG&E's) advantage.
It would certainly let them source more MW, without needing more users opting in.

i think the thinking is, especially if you had solar installed previous to the powerwalls by a non-tesla company, that PGE had analyzed your home and the neighborhood and approved 4kw (and nothing more) because that's what your inverter is capable of. it's almost a certainty that your panels/grid interconnect can handle more, but that's what was approved. maybe there is a way to get PGE to re-evaluate?

 

[Redhill_qik]

That's very interesting. I am surprised Tesla managed to negotiate using their data. What's interesting is that the discharge limit does take into account house load (and solar generation). If what they say is true, it would mean you could get compensated for charging an EV from the Powerwall during the event.

I received a very detailed response from the ELRP support that will hopefully clear up all of our/my confusion as to how the compensation works.

TL;DR;

• Energy Baseline = Average Powerwall discharge during the event hours for the 10 previous weekdays if the event is on weekday or 4 previous weekend days if the event is on the weekend
• Incremental Load Reduction = Powerwall discharge during the event hours - Energy Baseline
• Compensation = $2.00 * Incremental Load Reduction

Here are the detailed responses that I received:

Thank you for your inquiry. Participants are compensated $2 for every incremental kilowatt-hour (kWh) that is discharged from your battery in response to an event. Performance calculations for customers participating in Tesla's VPP program use the meter data that is available directly from your battery. These calculations do not consider the net load of your entire premise. The incremental discharge is the difference between your typical battery discharge (baseline) and your event day battery discharge. Using your example, if the baseline for a given event hour is -5 kWh (discharging 5 kWh) and on the event day your battery discharges 15 kWh, your performance would be 10 kWh.

The first paragraph of section 3.2.1.4 of the ELRP Group A Terms and Conditions states that the Capacity Bidding Program baseline methodology will be used for A.4 aggregations and modified to account for exported energy. This is applicable for aggregations whose aggregators have decided to use whole premise metering. This modification is necessary because the typical baseline methodology does not compensate customers for exports.

The second paragraph, however, states that the baseline methodology described in 3.2.1.1 may be used with sub-metering to evaluate performance for A.4 participants whose aggregators have elected to use sub-metering instead of whole premise metering. This is the case for Tesla VPP participants. Tesla has elected to use battery sub-metering to measure event performance, so for all Tesla VPP participants the export of your premise is not applicable.

This modification to allow for exports for whole premise baseline calculations is also applicable for sub-metered customers that have an analogous metering configuration where there is potential for both positive and negative values (i.e. battery charge and discharge), ensuring that customers are compensated for any incremental discharge.

The Compensation section of Tesla's Virtual Power Plant webpage describes how participants are compensated for every additional kWh that their Powerwall delivers during an event beyond typical behavior. We've provided a screenshot of this section below for reference. The webpage provides two examples. The first example is similar to the example you provided in your initial inquiry

So to determine the average Powerwall export prior to the event you will need to export the data for each of the preceding days to get the hourly data as well as for the day of the event.

 

[aesculus]

So to determine the average Powerwall export prior to the event you will need to export the data for each of the preceding days to get the hourly data as well as for the day of the event.

Thanks for getting the more in depth view.

And to clarify this is power exported from the Powerwalls, and not exported to the grid? So if I discharged my Powerwalls normally at 5kWh to power my house, this is my Energy Baseline? No consideration for what I send out to the grid normally with solar?

If this is true then it would seem I could just consume my solar locally during an event day instead of exporting it, and then discharge from the PWs to the grid for the VPP at a higher price. If I have not misunderstood (probably), solar kWh are worth far less than PW kWh.

 

[Redhill_qik]

Thanks for getting the more in depth view.

And to clarify this is power exported from the Powerwalls, and not exported to the grid? So if I discharged my Powerwalls normally at 5kWh to power my house, this is my Energy Baseline? No consideration for what I send out to the grid normally with solar?

If this is true then it would seem I could just consume my solar locally during an event day instead of exporting it, and then discharge from the PWs to the grid for the VPP at a higher price. If I have not misunderstood (probably), solar kWh are worth far less than PW kWh.

Right, it just what the Powerwalls discharge during the event minus what they normally discharge during the same time period.

Your comment about solar use doesn't really make sense. Solar is going to recharge the Powerwalls and power the house first with the excess going to the grid. This doesn't have any impact on the VPP program.

 

[aesculus]

Right, it just what the Powerwalls discharge during the event minus what they normally discharge during the same time period.

Your comment about solar use doesn't really make sense. Solar is going to recharge the Powerwalls and power the house first with the excess going to the grid. This doesn't have any impact on the VPP program.

In cost savings mode the algorithm will try to keep you from running down to your PW reserve by holding back solar if it needs to recharge the PWs. My comment was along those lines. But it does not sound like the VPP algorithm does that yet. I saw some reports of the user getting to reserve by 8pm and then having to buy peak power back. Ultimately it would be good to finish the event at your reserve.

But I agree with your comment about solar being used to fulfill the house needs as well as PW energy, if solar is not enough.

 

[wwu123]

In cost savings mode the algorithm will try to keep you from running down to your PW reserve by holding back solar if it needs to recharge the PWs. My comment was along those lines. But it does not sound like the VPP algorithm does that yet. I saw some reports of the user getting to reserve by 8pm and then having to buy peak power back. Ultimately it would be good to finish the event at your reserve.

But I agree with your comment about solar being used to fulfill the house needs as well as PW energy, if solar is not enough.

At least while folks still have NEM2, buying peak power back during the VPP is not necessarily a big deal. Remember while discharging during VPP, you get not only the $2 through VPP but also your normal retail peak credits through monthly billing. So selling a kwh and then buying back, the difference is only the NBC's. Not zero certainly, but to pay $0.04 to earn $2.00 sounds pretty good to me....

 

[astrorob]

ok, so for my situation, generally speaking the PWs reach their reserve limit around 8pm every day, at least now in the summertime. since the event lasted until 9pm and the PWs served about 6.7KWh during that last hour, it looks like the event was good for around $13.50 to me. which is fine - that's about 2 days worth of summertime net metering, at least on days where we don't charge the car.

 

[cwied]

I just got a same-day dispatch for a VPP event from 5 to 8pm tonight, but when I try to see the details in the app, I'm getting a server error. Can anyone else see the details?

 

[Redhill_qik]

Tesla app just popped up a notification for a VPP event for today. Main screen is showing "Powerwall is preparing for a grid event", but I'm getting a "Loading Error, Connection Error" on the Virtual Power Plant tab. Not sure if this is real or an app glitch at the moment.

 

[schettj]

Tesla app just popped up a notification for a VPP event for today. Main screen is showing "Powerwall is preparing for a grid event", but I'm getting a "Loading Error, Connection Error" on the Virtual Power Plant tab. Not sure if this is real or an app glitch at the moment.

PG&E has the event on their site as well, I take it as real. Just kinda last minute.

Electric Systems

 

[Redhill_qik]

PG&E has the event on their site as well, I take it as real. Just kinda last minute.

The Virtual Power Plant tab just updated with:

• Start - 1:30 pm
• Discharge - 5:00 pm
• End - 8:00pm
• Fleet Home - 2,792
• Charging - 3783 kW

 

[roblab]

I have three power walls that have 7.5 kwh EACH, and when the power goes out, as it does routinely in PG&E territory for hours or DAYS, I don't want to share with ANYbody, because I'll likely need it. Even with the newer power walls, I think I'd still be selfish, because you never know how long the power will be out. No, I don't want to supply power to the grid. I have 66 solar panels and three power walls, and I figure my next step is to go off grid since the grid is so unreliable. My house uses about 13 kwh a day, so there's about two power walls' full already.

 

[cwied]

The demand today doesn't look like it's getting that close to capacity: California ISO - Today's Outlook

I'm somewhat surprised it's enough to call a Flex Alert, actually. The weekend looks much worse.

 

[RubberToe]

They recently updated the page for the Tesla VPP to show the number of users signing up over time in a separate graph. And the other new chart is a view of the August 17th flex alert test VPP response. Given there is another flex alert today, we could end up seeing another chart for today's response.

 

[Redhill_qik]

I have three power walls that have 7.5 kwh EACH, and when the power goes out, as it does routinely in PG&E territory for hours or DAYS, I don't want to share with ANYbody, because I'll likely need it. Even with the newer power walls, I think I'd still be selfish, because you never know how long the power will be out. No, I don't want to supply power to the grid. I have 66 solar panels and three power walls, and I figure my next step is to go off grid since the grid is so unreliable. My house uses about 13 kwh a day, so there's about two power walls' full already.

You have the original Powerwall at 7.5 kWh vs the Powerwall2 at 13.5 kWh. Are the PW1s even eligible for the VPP? If your power did go out then you wouldn't be participating in the VPP as there isn't a grid to export to.

 

[sorka]

Just about an hour to go until discharge. Precooled the house over the last hour to 75F from my usual 78F so that I don't need to rely on the PWs anywhere as much to not use peak. Will set thermostat up to 80F at 4:00 pm sharp when peak rates start.

 

[sorka]

Of course the consequence before discharging even starts is that now that I'm on peak time, I'm NOT exporting all solar to the grid. It's instead operating like self consumption with powerwalls sitting at 100% and sun powering house with balance going to grid, so I'm giving up peak export at $0.44 / kwh. Now if the event doesn't result in a good amount of discharge, I could end up being net negative on the revenue.

 

[sorka]

And here we go........