Tesla's Hardware 4: Will it improve FSD?

We discuss Tesla's Hardware 4 leaks and the various improvements that it may bring to FSD. There is both good and bad news.

This is a clip from Tesla Motors Club Podcast #35. The full podcast video is available here: Does the FSD recall mean we're finally getting Beta V11? | Tesla Motors Club Podcast #35

 

[azred]

I think I read a statement from Elon that indicates what a big deal HW4 will be: By the end of next year, said Musk, Tesla would demonstrate a fully autonomous drive from, say, "a home in L.A., to Times Square ... without the need for a single touch, including the charging.”

OK, that was a statement by Musk 6 1/2 years ago concerning a trip CA-NY in 2017 with HW2. But it really will be a true statement in the next few years with HW4. Trust The Great Hypester!

 

[EVRider-FL]

Will HW4 improve FSD? Speculate all you want, but no one will know for certain until we actually get HW4.

 

[ddeflyer]

Realistically, I expect the first major improvement will be a stop to phantom braking (and false forward collision alerts and automatic emergency braking) due to the new radar.

 

[clydeiii]

Seems like the wrong question to ask...yes, HW4 will inevitably improve it, but by how much? The thing that will improve it even more is simply more time developing the software. The AP team just needs to keep their head down and keep iterating on FSD over and over.

 

[ewoodrick]

Realistically, I expect the first major improvement will be a stop to phantom braking (and false forward collision alerts and automatic emergency braking) due to the new radar.

It's very possible that V11 may significantly improve/fix that.

 

[Dewg]

Realistically, I expect the first major improvement will be a stop to phantom braking (and false forward collision alerts and automatic emergency braking) due to the new radar.

It's always going to be around. It's not unique to Tesla. Hyundais and Audis have it too, and those are just the ones I've been told about by friends and coworkers who own them. And those cars have radar and ultrasonics. The more sophisticated the ADAS, the more likely the system will overreact and slow down when you wouldn't have.

 

[ewoodrick]

I Remember my Leaf ADAS. I really don't remember if it had phantom braking, but then again, you couldn't go through an intersection with it.

Yep, look at other car forums with ADAS, they're complaining about it just as much. Not a Tesla thing.

 

[hiker007]

It's always going to be around. It's not unique to Tesla. Hyundais and Audis have it too, and those are just the ones I've been told about by friends and coworkers who own them. And those cars have radar and ultrasonics. The more sophisticated the ADAS, the more likely the system will overreact and slow down when you wouldn't have.

I had a Honda for 5 years used Honda sensing every day, never had phantom breaking issue expect it slows down a bit too much when the car in front is making turns but not near to rear end it.
If Tesla phantom breaking is caused by the vision based system, then the new HD radar in HW4 may improve it, hopefully?

 

[Midpack]

Seems like the wrong question to ask...yes, HW4 will inevitably improve it, but by how much? The thing that will improve it even more is simply more time developing the software. The AP team just needs to keep their head down and keep iterating on FSD over and over.

+1. Why else would Tesla develop HW4 if not to improve AP, EAP, FSD? More better cameras and HD radar could only help improve, how much and when is anyone's guess.

 

[EVRider-FL]

I had a Honda for 5 years used Honda sensing every day, never had phantom breaking issue expect it slows down a bit too much when the car in front is making turns but not near to rear end it.
If Tesla phantom breaking is caused by the vision based system, then the new HD radar in HW4 may improve it, hopefully?

Phantom braking was a Tesla issue long before Tesla Vision was introduced. Some people feel Tesla Vision reduced phantom braking, others feel it got worse. I personally haven’t noticed any difference, but I didn’t experience a lot of phantom braking before switching to Tesla Vision.

Whether HW4 will make a difference, only time will tell.

 

[Rikster]

I had a Honda for 5 years used Honda sensing every day, never had phantom breaking issue expect it slows down a bit too much when the car in front is making turns but not near to rear end it.
If Tesla phantom breaking is caused by the vision based system, then the new HD radar in HW4 may improve it, hopefully?

My Tesla MS used to severely overreact to cars slowing down to turn in front of it (or cars turning left in front of me quite a ways away). It always bugged me how sensitive it was to cars well ahead of it. With FSDb, though, my car now reacts really well (or should I say, doesn't react, which is the correct response) when a car ahead of it is turning, but there's no need to slow down to avoid it.

This is one thing that the current FSDb gets right, in my view.

 

[kabin]

If well executed HW4 can't be any worse especially if it adds more processing power, more cameras, higher res cameras, and possible HD radar. The main issue might be Tesla's never ending all-eggs-in-one-basket moon shots.

 

[kabin]

I had a Honda for 5 years used Honda sensing every day, never had phantom breaking issue expect it slows down a bit too much when the car in front is making turns but not near to rear end it.
If Tesla phantom breaking is caused by the vision based system, then the new HD radar in HW4 may improve it, hopefully?

I concur. First time I experienced it was my initial 30 min Tesla test drive.

 

[Dewg]

I had a Honda for 5 years used Honda sensing every day, never had phantom breaking issue expect it slows down a bit too much when the car in front is making turns but not near to rear end it.
If Tesla phantom breaking is caused by the vision based system, then the new HD radar in HW4 may improve it, hopefully?

1.7 million Hondas are being investigated for phantom braking

NHTSA has received 278 complaints about inappropriate automatic emergency braking.

arstechnica.com

 

[Watts_Up]

I like to use FSD but the biggest FSD limitation, IMO is the current
inability to estimate and anticipate what would be a safe driving speed.

Currently FSD driving speed is based on the GPS location
and speed signs that the camera might notice.

But it would require an AI computer with infinite heuristic capabilities,
to be close to the way any driver generaly handle any basic road situation.

I realise that when using FSD, the car is great a staying in middle it its lane,
but when there is a curve, I always need to adjust the speed manually
using the right steering wheel button.

As an example, for the following picture below, FSD is not able to notice the speed sign
and keeps running at the 65 mph speed limit.

Honestly, I never really noticed either this speed sign because I am always on the left lane,
since the right lane is used by cars who previously entered into the freeway just before.
However, any driver would slow down, because it is technically impossible to safely
take this turn at high speed.

The speed sign could have been also hidden by a truck,
but FSD is not able to estimate and anticipate the correct safe driving speed.

 

[kabin]

I like to use FSD but the biggest FSD limitation, IMO is the current
inability to estimate and anticipate what would be a safe driving speed.

Currently FSD driving speed is based on the GPS location
and speed signs that the camera might notice.

But it would require an AI computer with infinite heuristic capabilities,
to be close to the way any driver generaly handle any basic road situation.

I realise that when using FSD, the car is great a staying in middle it its lane,
but when there is a curve, I always need to adjust the speed manually
using the right steering wheel button.

As an example, for the following picture below, FSD is not able to notice the speed sign
and keeps running at the 65 mph speed limit.

Honestly, I never really noticed either this speed sign because I am always on the left lane,
since the right lane is used by cars who previously entered into the freeway just before.
However, any driver would slow down, because it is technically impossible to safely
take this turn at high speed.

The speed sign could have been also hidden by a truck,
but FSD is not able to estimate and anticipate the correct safe driving speed.

View attachment 911120

Yep. Human like anticipation is a quality FSD may not acquire for years to come. Until then we might be stuck with too many myopic, late, on-the-fly, poor decisions.

 

[Dewg]

Or... use it like an L2 driver assist, and roll down the speed as you approach the exit. You, as the drive with human anticipation, can see that you'll need to slow down for the turn and that the screen shows 65MPH. So you wheel down and take the exit slower. The system will snap to the new speed limit when it exits or changes freeways automatically.

 

[DanCar]

Elon said during autonomy day that HW4 will be 3 times better.

 

[2101Guy]

Elon said during autonomy day that HW4 will be 3 times better.

Correct. But we all know Elons history of truthfulness..