Speed limit in NYC is now a cool 25mph with speed cameras EVERYWHERE. So for those of us on the east coast even 70D is way too fast for most situations.
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Test drove the 70d and 85d
- Thread starter kuttakamina
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- Model S
Speed limit in NYC is now a cool 25mph with speed cameras EVERYWHERE. So for those of us on the east coast even 70D is way too fast for most situations.
chriSharek
Member
Thanks for the review, but more importantly the pix. That blue one with tan interior and 19"s is EXACTLY what I'm ordering in 3 days. 85D all the way. For the range AND the performance.
chriSharek
Member
I knew you'd like the pics.. the tan on blue looks HOT! (Sexy hot)
Wow! Thanks man. I do appreciate it. Hey, how did you add your picture on your proifile? I can't seem to figure out how to do that . . . I have a picture there loaded, but it doesn't show up in my posts! Sorry about the off topic . ..
Here - Tesla Motors Club - Enthusiasts & Owners Forum .. look for the menu on the left hand side! Says "Edit profile picture".
I wanted to put something funny, but everyone on this forum seems so serious, and the Mods seem very strict.
Nah, that's a group icon. He wants Avatar picture. Go to Settings, chriSharek, and look for Edit Avatar on the bottom left.
A variety of places for pictures on TMC:
- pictures embedded in posts
- pictures attached to posts
- profile picture
- avatar picture
- group icons
bjwModelS
Member
I knew you'd like the pics
Thanks for the blue pics! Definitely not enough out there. Ordered April 30 without seeing one in the flesh, and I think mine will be the first I see in person when it arrives next month!
chriSharek
Member
Is it working now? I met Franz ??? at the Detroit Auto Show a couple years back. Very cool. I also got this cool pic:
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Another reason I'm stretching to get the 85D is that the 70D, after a few years of slight battery degradation (however long this takes), you're looking at around a 200 mile range, which is what the Model 3 is supposed to be. By getting an 85 you insulate yourself slightly from being in that lower tier with the Model 3. I hope this is making sense - not sure I'm clearly saying what I mean.
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Yes it's working. And to degrade the 70D to a rated 200miles, is a 17% degradation. There was a thread somewhere on TMC where someone hit 100k miles and only had an 6% or 8% degradation, IIRC. You'd have to drive a lot of miles to get there...
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travwill
Active Member
Had to chuckle at your comment. I got the 70D also and seemed plenty fast enough in drives, 5 seconds -0-60 is good for more than most cars out there. I'm coming from a Touareg Hybrid that is around 6.5-7.5 seconds I think, and our X5 seems fast and its like 7 seconds.
But, again - in Chicago, probably like New York. I spend 90% of my time around 20-40 miles per hour. Part of that time is spend dodging pot holes. Sitting in traffic at 0 mph. Then then when you do finally get to go over 30 you have to constantly watch out for the new speed cameras at all parks and all schools or just near them in Chicago. It's "for the children" but man, our thief/crook of a mayor and city just loves the revenue. Our household has already gotten a few in our "slower" cars so will have to watch it in the Model S. Can't wait to get out of the hellhole named Illinois and back to my home state of Texas!
-T
I was thinking further about this .. and reading on TMC ..
So, we usually charge the car at 80%.
In winters, the range is 70% of rated.
After 8 years, the battery will likely have 80% capacity left.
So 8 years later, in winter, your range would be - 107 miles on 70d and 120 miles on 85d.
Thats like almost Nissan Leaf bad. Am I misreading this?
So, we usually charge the car at 80%.
In winters, the range is 70% of rated.
After 8 years, the battery will likely have 80% capacity left.
So 8 years later, in winter, your range would be - 107 miles on 70d and 120 miles on 85d.
Thats like almost Nissan Leaf bad. Am I misreading this?
travwill
Active Member
I think with your thoughts it would be 80% of 240 = 192. Then on those cold days if you say 80% of that you would have 154 miles range on a 70D even. 70% would be 135 miles on a 70D even. I think the 20% degradation estimate is high even for 8 years. I'd expect closer to 10%.
Nissan Leaf bad would be comparable of starting with 100, 80% down to 80 miles, then 70% of that would be only 56 miles rage.
Here's one link I found on TMC: 92k miles, 7.5% degradation.
Plug In America
I could've sworn someone hit 100k and had only 6%... but I can't find the link now.
Assuming a linear extrapolation (though I've read arguments that the battery degradation is non-linear, and the biggest hit is taken early on and it levels out after that), a 20% degradation over 8 years would be 245k miles... you're planning on driving 245k miles in 8 years?
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Tesla Model S Battery Life: How Much Range Loss For Electric Car Over Time?
The recent Model S numbers from The Netherlands are even more encouraging.
Based on 84 data points from the 85-kWh version of the Model S and six from 60-kWh cars, the study concludes that the Model S will retain about 94 percent of its capacity after 50,000 miles, with losses thereafter shrinking to about 1 percent per 30,000 miles.
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I did a quick calc on EV trip planner for the cold weather degredation.
I chose an arbitrary 250mile route, 1x speed multiplier, 200lb payload, 70 degree cabin temp.
Outside temp: 72 degrees, 251RM used
Outside temp: 102 degrees, 270RM used
Outside temp: 32 degrees, 299RM used
Only about a 16% degredation. I've read 20% elsewhere, so let's go with 20% to be conservative.
70D after 100k miles in the winter will get: 177RM
85D after 100k miles in the winter will get: 200RM
Plug In America
I could've sworn someone hit 100k and had only 6%... but I can't find the link now.
Assuming a linear extrapolation (though I've read arguments that the battery degradation is non-linear, and the biggest hit is taken early on and it levels out after that), a 20% degradation over 8 years would be 245k miles... you're planning on driving 245k miles in 8 years?
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Tesla Model S Battery Life: How Much Range Loss For Electric Car Over Time?
The recent Model S numbers from The Netherlands are even more encouraging.
Based on 84 data points from the 85-kWh version of the Model S and six from 60-kWh cars, the study concludes that the Model S will retain about 94 percent of its capacity after 50,000 miles, with losses thereafter shrinking to about 1 percent per 30,000 miles.
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I did a quick calc on EV trip planner for the cold weather degredation.
I chose an arbitrary 250mile route, 1x speed multiplier, 200lb payload, 70 degree cabin temp.
Outside temp: 72 degrees, 251RM used
Outside temp: 102 degrees, 270RM used
Outside temp: 32 degrees, 299RM used
Only about a 16% degredation. I've read 20% elsewhere, so let's go with 20% to be conservative.
70D after 100k miles in the winter will get: 177RM
85D after 100k miles in the winter will get: 200RM
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There you have data about degradation versus battery cycles, not degradation versus time. It's not the same… Even when not used at all, a battery degrades, that's what's interesting to know after 8 years. (but of course we will have to wait till 2020 at least to have that data since the first model S rolled out in 2012 if I'm not mistaken.)
That 80% figure after 8 years with a moderate usage seems somewhat a worst case scenario to me, but it is IMHO a good value to use when making financial decisions about your car.
Also keep in mind, when comparing the Model S to the Leaf : the Leaf does not have a thermal management system, whereas Tesla has a dedicated 6kW heater for the battery and can also cool the battery when needed. (Also, if I'm not mistaken, Nissan allows a higher C rate than Tesla, especially when DC charging.)
djp
Model 3 Performance
Tom Saxton's Roadster battery study showed that degradation is more closely related to mileage than time, with an expectation of 80-85% capacity over 100,000 miles. The Model S battery has improved chemistry and should easily beat that.
http://www.pluginamerica.org/surveys/batteries/tesla-roadster/PIA-Roadster-Battery-Study.pdf
Personally I've seen zero degradation on my five year old pack.
