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The "copyright" line is so many signatures baffles me

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Canuck, Jul 16, 2014.

  1. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

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    What is the problem with being quoted outside of this forum? I am currently reading a book called "Think Like a Commoner" by David Bollier. It has a chapter on copyright and trademark law and how even smells are now being enclosed by corporate interests. As stated in that book, "Our human impulse to imitate and share - the essence of culture - have been criminalized" -- right down to using the "Happy Birthday" song. What's the big deal with allowing your words to be quoted outside this forum. As an EV forum, we should be promoting it, rather than restricting it. But perhaps I'm missing something?
     
  2. EVTECH

    EVTECH Member

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    A lot of people do it to "protect" themselves when reporters or any idiots from the media look through here and partially quote people. It's often they twist the words or only give small portions of it.
     
  3. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    As EVTECH notes, people do it because people on this forum have been misquoted by eyeball-hungry journalists looking for a good Tesla story.
     
  4. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    In additional to what is mentioned by others (which really only serves as a warning in those cases, as most of the time the journalists can still copy under "fair use" and the warning is not legally enforceable), there was a time when there were other new Tesla forums that directly lifted content from comments/threads here to use in their new forum as thread starters. That kind of copying is not "fair use" and in that case the notices are enforceable (although legally the existence of the notice is not required).
     
  5. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    We had a rash of so called *reporters* lifting comments from the forum, cherry-picking ones that fit the story they wanted to write (5 complaints out of 100 kudos & they'd just quote the complaints with a 'OMG the car is falling APART' kind of story) ... and that business seems to have stopped with people giving warning to 'knock it off'. While stopcrazypp is correct regarding fair use, they weren't using the quotes in an ethical manner.

    I'm just glad we don't seem to see that going on anymore and it did seem to stop when we made it clear it wasn't okay.
     
  6. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    Not to mention not telling the person they were being quoted. Or mentioning them or TMC at all in their article. It's not hard to put in your article "on TMC" and/or send someone a PM that they are going to quote you.
     
  7. Citizen-T

    Citizen-T Active Member

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    Yeah, it is just an artifact of history.

    It was really bad for a few weeks there maybe about a year ago. A lot of big supporters of Tesla here on the forums were being quoted out of context to make it sound like they were unhappy with their cars or with service. Adding the copyright notice in the signature seemed to immediately stop the problem. Maybe it was just enough to make the bloggers think twice about what they were doing and that was enough for them to change their mind.
     
  8. Canuck

    Canuck Active Member

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    Okay, that all makes sense to me. Still, there's some irony in Elon Musk waiving Tesla's patents if used in good faith but many of his supporters here won't even let their forum posting be used. It seems a better notice may be: "My words may only be quoted outside of this forum if done so in good faith."
     
  9. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    What's good faith? People would at least like to be notified if they are being quoted. The 'journalists' weren't even doing that.
     
  10. lorih

    lorih Member

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    Elon made his patents available because he wants people to use them to advance the goal of sustainable transportation. He doesn't feel threatened if people copy because he thinks competition is good and he is continuing to innovate.

    this forum has been quoted in the media many times. Sometimes they cherry pick the bad comments to make Tesla motors look bad, sometimes they see something that is purely conjecture and report it as news. Like it or not perception of a company and of its products depends greatly on what people hear, and that can affect sales and even the survival of startups. Tesla is here to stay, but there are many people outside this forum that would have liked it to fail, and were searching this forum for fodder.

    so, it isn't that people copyrighted their words because they want to be paid if their words got quoted (the usual use of copyrights), rather it was just to prevent being quoted outside this forum. We just wanted to make it clear that our words are our own opinions and we don't speak for Tesla Motors, stock traders, etc, and very much didn't want our words turned against Tesla when we are such fans.

    in Elon's case releasing patents worked towards his goals. In the case of this forum open quoting in the media was often working against his goal.

    So the irony lies not in the openness and sharing of information, but rather in how that information is, or can be used.
     
  11. eco5280

    eco5280 Member

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    Why all the people with the "my words here are COPYRIGHTED! I WILL SUE!" signatures??

    I've been on forums since they first existed and have never seen so many people with the paranoid "my posts are copyrighted" signatures like I see on this forum. Did something happen before I joined that I should know about? Or are people just convinced their words are so awesome they will be used in print advertising without permission?
     
  12. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    I'm not sure how a pseudonym/screen name on an internet forum can copyright anything.
     
  13. William13

    William13 Member

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    Eco, it's all about the concern about being quoted out of context that started this "copyright" trend. The NYT reporters like John Broder made the people here skittish about being quoted.

    Note I don't care enough to do this. I also believe fair use allows most quoting to occur regardless.
     
  14. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

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    Because journalistic hacks, hit pieces, click-bait, and anti-Tesla FUD like this have time and time again quoted members here, often out of context and without followup.

    It's been a problem for about two years, since Tesla's stock rocketed past $30 and put a lot of shorts in a bad position.
     
  15. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    The line is so many signatures baffles me
     
  16. eco5280

    eco5280 Member

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    I know, right? "I've said something in a public space but think I can prevent others from quoting me". Um. Not how the world or our free society works.
     
  17. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    You're not the first to say that. People here aren't stupid. We know that. But y'know .. it works. If you'd read the earlier posts in this thread, you'd have read about the huge difference it made. People here are fine with getting quoted IF they're contacted and if it's kept in context. Neither was happening. At least one of those two things would have the ethical thing to do.

    In any case, the incidents dramatically decreased at exactly the same time the signature lines were used. I'm not sure why it's even a topic worthy of discussion.
     
  18. Danal

    Danal electricmotorglider.com

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    There are lots of "practical" pieces to this, as others have mentioned.

    Just to be clear, though: The signatures you've noticed, if properly phrased, do carry the force of law. The only requirement for an author to copyright written material is to create it in fixed form (paper or computer or...). No other form of registration is required by US law to establish copyright; it exists from the moment the work is "fixed in tangible form", including machine readable. For more details click here (US Government copyright site).

    Furthermore, TMC is not "Public Space". It is privately owned, and chooses to make content available via certain distribution channels. The copyright notice at the very bottom of the main page also carries the force of law.

    Again, I recognize there is a practical side to this, and we can debate "Fair Use", which is a very complex topic, mostly codified in court precedent and not legal code. We could also debate other aspects of copyright law... but there are some parts of copyright law that are just facts. Despite the commonly held mis-belief that "free society" or "public space" somehow affects copyright. It simply doesn't.

    If you want a crystal clear example: A poet still owns the copyright on a poem, even if they choose to exhibit that poem on a wall on a public street. Total control regarding further reproduction. By law. Again, there is a practical side... people may copy the poem, memorize it, recite it, photograph it, and more, in practice. Nonetheless, legally, the copyright remains with the poet. Period.
     
  19. eco5280

    eco5280 Member

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    Bonnie - nobody is harassing you about it, I was just curious.

    - - - Updated - - -

    @Danal - there's a difference between copyright-infringing acts, and journalism.
     
  20. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    Okay. But the tone of your post didn't sound like 'just curious' ... sounded more like 'folks, that's not how the world or our free society works'. Apologies if I misread.

     

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