The Cybertruck is more expensive to supercharge than a Ford F-150 costs in gas

[primedive]

Solar makes mine free to charge at home and I get free charging at work too. Where are you seeing SC rates @ 0.45/kWh?

New York State ($0.42 - $0.43)

 

[primedive]

Maybe for one or two states, however acrross the board, the states where electricity is cheap, it is due to nuclear and coal.
"Green" energy is significantly more expensive in majority of states.

For instance, in Philadelphia, there are superchargers with around $.15 or so rates... across the bridge in NJ, it is $.38 to $.46.

Unfortunately I didn’t come across these when I did my road trip — best rates were Georgia at $0.30 or so. I was driving a Model Y so it was still cheaper than gas or comparable to a hybrid.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

New York State ($0.42 - $0.43)

Glad I don't live there.. Still have FUSC that I just transferred to the new Model X. How do you find the rates for VA we are 57% NG and 4% coal, 30% Nuke so we should be cheaper, my rate at home is 0.12/kWh and 0.05 after midnight.

 

[primedive]

Glad I don't live there.. Still have FUSC that I just transferred to the new Model X. How do you find the rates for VA we are 57% NG and 4% coal, 30% Nuke so we should be cheaper my rate at home is 0.12 p/kWh and 0.05 after midnight.

To find rates I’m just opening the Tesla app, going to Navigation and then tapping on different superchargers. There might be a better way.
I’m seeing $0.32 - $0.36 rates in VA.

 

[Xenoilphobe]

To find rates I’m just opening the Tesla app, going to Navigation and then tapping on different superchargers. There might be a better way.
I’m seeing $0.32 - $0.36 rates in VA.

Never paid for SC before, as a Tesla OG, learned something new today....didnt realize it was in the app.

 

[FOOLSLFDRVNG]

In general, DC charging costs about the same or more than gas. That's not groundbreaking or new information. Then add to that the higher vehicle cost and longer fueling time. This is why an EV only makes since if you can charge at home, in your own driveway/garage or parking space, while you sleep. The amount of miles derived from DC charging should be a very small portion of your over-all miles. It makes zero sense to buy an EV if you cannot do so, which eliminates most apartment/condo dwellers.

My condo has an outlet which I’ve been using the last 4 years for charging and it’s paid by the HOA.

 

[ewoodrick]

Eh.

Tires wear much quicker on an EV...those cost a lot more than oil changes, fluids, etc.

The time saving of not worrying about those issues is really nice.

My tires don't

 

[uscbucsfan]

My tires don't

Sure.

It's physics that a heavier EV with high torque will go through tires faster. People are mocking the Rivian for going through tires as quick as 6k miles, but again...physics.

I could get 90k on my Ford Fusion, changed out my F150 tires at 76k. I made it 18k on my 1st MY, 22k on the 2nd, and 25k on my MSLR. This isn't just some anecdotal thing. Also, for most Tesla the tires are more expensive due to the weight/speed rating than your average car.

The continentals that come on the MYLR are crap, sure, but there's a ton of articles on about all EVs going through tires fast.

 

[ChiefRollo]

I recently watched a range test on YouTube where a Cybertruck was driven at 70mph at a steady state under decent weather conditions until it could not drive. The truck got around 254 miles of range and consumed around 500 wh/mile, approximately.

Here's what that would cost per 100 miles at current supercharger rates across the US:

	$0.35/kWh​	$0.40/kWh​	$0.45/kWh​
Cybertruck (500wh/mile)	$17.50/100 miles​	$20.00/100 miles​	$22.50/100 miles​

Here's what a Ford F-150 would cost per 100 miles at current gas prices across the US:

	$2.50/gallon​	$3.50/gallon​	$4.50/gallon​
3.5L EcoBoost (24mpg)	$10.42/100 miles​	$14.58/100 miles​	$18.75/100 miles​
5.0L (18mpg)	$13.89/100 miles​	$19.44/100 miles​	$25.00/100 miles​

At these prices, the F-150 ends up being cheaper to drive under most conditions while also being quicker to fuel up and unrestricted by charging station locations. Here is a MPG equivalency chart at cost basis:

	$0.35/kWh​	$0.40/kWh​	$0.45/kWh​
$2.50/gallon	14 mpg​	13 mpg​	11 mpg​
$3.50/gallon	20 mpg​	18 mpg​	16 mpg​
$4.50/gallon	26 mpg​	23 mpg​	20 mpg​

If comparing against the EcoBoost 3.5L, there's only one scenario where the Cybertruck comes out ahead (and just barely): $4.50/gallon gas and $0.35/kWh supercharger rates.

Now this is a very simplified analysis and doesn't take into account the following:

• Purchase price and depreciation.
• Home charging.
• "Fun to drive" and acceleration.
• Cold weather effects on charging and efficiency.
• Maintenance costs and time lost to oil changes, etc...
• The social costs to CO2 emissions and air pollution.

Otherwise, let me know if I am missing something obvious in the analysis above.

*Avoiding stealerships like a plague…
*Sickened by the cheap decades-old modular / bodies on frame design…

 

[ucmndd]

Two years ago in California I was paying $0.12 per kWh with the EV-A plan during off-peak. Now it is $0.24 per kWh.

You mean $0.34 per kWh.

 

[ucmndd]

The average real world MPG reported on Fuelly for the 2023 3.5 Ecoboost is 16.6 mpg. The 5.0 V8 is roughly the same.

How does your chart look with real world numbers instead of made-up EPA numbers for the ICE?

 

[mikez10288]

That's insane. We pay .05/kwh at home.

I'm at about .25 in southeastern MA. That factors in the delivery fees and whatnot to get an actual per kWh cost. On paper they list it as .15

 

[ewoodrick]

Sure.

It's physics that a heavier EV with high torque will go through tires faster. People are mocking the Rivian for going through tires as quick as 6k miles, but again...physics.

I could get 90k on my Ford Fusion, changed out my F150 tires at 76k. I made it 18k on my 1st MY, 22k on the 2nd, and 25k on my MSLR. This isn't just some anecdotal thing. Also, for most Tesla the tires are more expensive due to the weight/speed rating than your average car.

The continentals that come on the MYLR are crap, sure, but there's a ton of articles on about all EVs going through tires fast.

It is indeed physics that a heavier vehicle will go through tires a little faster.

But high torque is in the hands (or foot) of the driver. First set of tires on an EV will just about always go fast, but for many, it slows afterwards.

 

[TSLA Pilot]

That is frankly pretty deluded thinking, typically associated with those living in small box, tightly surrounded by others in small boxes. Those of us that live in or spend a large amount of time in nature know that your car isn't the primary issue. It's the constant destruction of land and nature, to build more tiny concrete boxes. So yes, I do care about that a lot. Yet the same people who claim they want to preserve the planet, are also allowing millions to illegally pour across our border, which will require a high impact and destruction of natural resources. They're clearly not sincere. In terms of an EV, you also need to put on higher than average miles to account for the greater manufacturing impact, and the lifetime of the battery. I do, as I put on ~30k miles a year. If people claim they want to preserve nature, they need to walk the walk, and not just virtue signal BS.

Yes, of course you are correct.

And all that pesky data that suggests that over a century of unchecked GHG dumping is placing us in great peril is just silly, left-wing absurdity. We really should just listen to those like you that "spend a large amount of time in nature" as you know best where the "primary issue" is . . . because you just "know." Because you spend a lot of "time in nature."

Anecdotal information for the win!

As a species with this amount of intelligence on display, perhaps the real truth is that we don't deserve this fine planet.

For those that live in reality, perhaps a look at some of the facts will spur action, and "ACT" means:

1. EV's in the garage.
2. Solar panels (a LOT of them) on the roof.
3. Methane meter: removed.

As a start.

See:

Exxon predicted global warming with remarkable accuracy years ago, study shows

A study from two Harvard academics and one from the University of Potsdam in Germany show that incredible accuracy with which Exxon predicted climate change.

www.cnbc.com

Scientists deliver ‘final warning’ on climate crisis: act now or it’s too late

IPCC report says only swift and drastic action can avert irrevocable damage to world

www.theguardian.com

Science Agency Confirms US Experienced Highest Number of Extreme Weather, Climate Disasters Ever Recorded in 2023

NOAA today released its annual report tallying the toll of extreme weather and climate disasters in the US for 2023. Statement by Dr. Rachel Cleetus at the Union of Concerned Scientists.

www.ucsusa.org

And for more background on how sustainable transport requires LESS mining and environmental degradation, take a look here:

Impact | Tesla

Our mission is to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy. Read our 2022 Impact Report.

www.tesla.com

 

[primedive]

The average real world MPG reported on Fuelly for the 2023 3.5 Ecoboost is 16.6 mpg. The 5.0 V8 is roughly the same.

How does your chart look with real world numbers instead of made-up EPA numbers for the ICE?

View attachment 1007619

These are not steady-state numbers at 70mph. I didn’t go by EPA but rather searched to see what others were reporting. An average isn’t representative of the test. It would be better to go by a 70mph range test, certainly.

One could use worse numbers but this is almost a best-case scenario for the cybertruck as well (the driver made sure to optimize all of the settings for range).

 

[TSLA Pilot]

Never once did I get 24mpg in my 3.5L Eco F150. Still a great truck. But if you buy an EV and can only supercharge, you are stupid or just a glutton for punishment

Or, perhaps you just have a small clue about the planetary-scale impact of over a century of unchecked GHG dumping, and you're crazy enough to want to leave a livable planet for others--I know, insane, right?

Stunning how so very many are either stunningly ignorant basic science or just don't give a damn--is there any other option here?

In case you've just been living under a rock for a few decades, here are some sites to get you up to speed. Please start now as you're pretty far behind the eight ball:

climate.nasa.gov

Climate Change - NASA Science

NASA is a global leader in studying Earth’s changing climate.

climate.nasa.gov

climate.gov

Climate.gov Home

Science & information for a climate-smart nation

www.climate.gov

The worst part: by the time the millions of morons among us figure this out, it may well be far too late to fix it. Hence the CRITICAL importance of the educated and informed to act. If THEY don't, just who do they think will?!?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/17/world/climate-feedback-loops-tipping-points-arctic-ice-intl/index.html

 

[mspohr]

I recently watched a range test on YouTube where a Cybertruck was driven at 70mph at a steady state under decent weather conditions until it could not drive. The truck got around 254 miles of range and consumed around 500 wh/mile, approximately.

Here's what that would cost per 100 miles at current supercharger rates across the US:

	$0.35/kWh​	$0.40/kWh​	$0.45/kWh​
Cybertruck (500wh/mile)	$17.50/100 miles​	$20.00/100 miles​	$22.50/100 miles​

Here's what a Ford F-150 would cost per 100 miles at current gas prices across the US:

	$2.50/gallon​	$3.50/gallon​	$4.50/gallon​
3.5L EcoBoost (24mpg)	$10.42/100 miles​	$14.58/100 miles​	$18.75/100 miles​
5.0L (18mpg)	$13.89/100 miles​	$19.44/100 miles​	$25.00/100 miles​

At these prices, the F-150 ends up being cheaper to drive under most conditions while also being quicker to fuel up and unrestricted by charging station locations. Here is a MPG equivalency chart at cost basis:

	$0.35/kWh​	$0.40/kWh​	$0.45/kWh​
$2.50/gallon	14 mpg​	13 mpg​	11 mpg​
$3.50/gallon	20 mpg​	18 mpg​	16 mpg​
$4.50/gallon	26 mpg​	23 mpg​	20 mpg​

If comparing against the EcoBoost 3.5L, there's only one scenario where the Cybertruck comes out ahead (and just barely): $4.50/gallon gas and $0.35/kWh supercharger rates.

Now this is a very simplified analysis and doesn't take into account the following:

• Purchase price and depreciation.
• Home charging.
• "Fun to drive" and acceleration.
• Cold weather effects on charging and efficiency.
• Maintenance costs and time lost to oil changes, etc...
• The social costs to CO2 emissions and air pollution.

Otherwise, let me know if I am missing something obvious in the analysis above.

The chart uses artificially high costs for electricity.
The cost of electricity by state. As of February 2023, the average residential electricity rate in the U.S. is about 23 cents per kilowatt-hour (kWh). Importantly, electricity rates can vary widely based on where you live. Rates vary from a low of 10.35 ¢ / kWh in Idaho to a high of 28.38 ¢ / kWh in California.
(Same for the cost of gasoline. In California it's about $5/gal. The US average price is above $3)

If you use more realistic values for the cost of electricity, your results will be more realistic. (90+% of charging is done at home, not at Superchargers.)

 

[etekberg]

Or, perhaps you just have a small clue about the planetary-scale impact of over a century of unchecked GHG dumping, and you're crazy enough to want to leave a livable planet for others--I know, insane, right?

I consider that a subset of the "glutton for punishment category". As to your other comments, I just frankly don't care about your specific politics. I'm just here for the car man.

 

[Cal1]

Eh.

Tires wear much quicker on an EV...those cost a lot more than oil changes, fluids, etc.

The time saving of not worrying about those issues is really nice.

Not if you slow down. Went thru our first set of tires on a 2013 P85 in about 22k miles. After replacement and having gotten used to the acceleration our next set lasted 25k. Third was about 33k. Just had to stop blasting it off the line.

 

[uscbucsfan]

Not if you slow down. Went thru our first set of tires on a 2013 P85 in about 22k miles. After replacement and having gotten used to the acceleration our next set lasted 25k. Third was about 33k. Just had to stop blasting it off the line.

None of those are good numbers.