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The demise of the OEMs

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#361
kpanda17 said:
In the USA we need an additional 17% tariff to enable our big 6 of Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, Ford, GM and Stellantis to be able to offer $25K vehicles at a profit sold in the USA
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Protectionism results in higher prices, not 25k EVs. I'm not opposed to tariffs on China, but we need to be honest about the effects.

I have no concern about China owning farmland. Unlike IP, they can't pack it up and take it with them. That said, we aren't allowed to own any land in China so it seems turnabout is fair play.
 
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#362
kpanda17 said:
Let’s not be ignorant to Chinas plans as the USA has had for years, world influence
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What world influence do you think China has owning 0.03% of US farmland, specifically?

You said anyone not concerned was crazy, but you're gonna need to expand that thought a bit.

Especially since they don't appear to be actively buying it up in any significant amount-- mostly that seems to be fearmongering of "the other" by a specific sect of a specific political party.

meanwhile back in the land of actual facts NBC looked into this specific thing just last month and found in the last 18 months less than 1400 acres were bought by Chinese owners.



kpanda17 said:
If we feel this is not a threat to our national security we are being stupid

Need to wake up and see
Click to expand...

I agree someone needs to wake up.... probably the folks who believe the Chinese are on some MASSIVE FARM BUY UP when the facts show they simply aren't.

Might wanna think about questioning who convinced you of this thing that's not actually happened, and what they hoped to evoke in you by doing so.



Either way it's unclear how any of this is relevant to legacy OEMs dying off unless Ford secretly has a massive domestic farming business I'm unaware of that China buying tiny bits of farmland is a threat to?



Doggydogworld said:
I have no concern about China owning farmland. Unlike IP, they can't pack it up and take it with them. That said, we aren't allowed to own any land in China so it seems turnabout is fair play.
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To be fair, Chinese people ALSO aren't allowed to own most land in China. rural farmland is mostly collectively not individually owned, and urban land mostly government owned.
 
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#363
SO16 said:
You are conflating Chinese takeover with legacy auto incompetence.

I’m not for Chinese takeover. I’m for supporting COMPETENT US companies.

I’m sure there were plenty of people saying the same thing in the 80’s when legacy auto was crushed by the Japanese. “We must protect Detroit!!!” Had we not let Japanese auto into this country, our cars would still be drivable for just a few years.
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But it is different now, we hear Jim Farley comment and respect Tesla, he is pushing his org to change. Tesla is influencing everyone globally. I hear you, just don’t want to be surrounded by chinese manufacturing in the USA when we could have prevented it. The EU VW and others are in a rapid spiral death as we speak. Let’s here in the usa do better.
 
#364
kpanda17 said:
But it is different now, we hear Jim Farley comment and respect Tesla, he is pushing his org to change. Tesla is influencing everyone globally. I hear you, just don’t want to be surrounded by chinese manufacturing in the USA when we could have prevented it. The EU VW and others are in a rapid spiral death as we speak. Let’s here in the usa do better.
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Yeah… one guy and for how long? You remember Diess doing the same thing until they booted him out?

You notice the UAW and their demands?
 
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#365
SO16 said:
Yeah… one guy and for how long? You remember Diess doing the same thing until they booted him out?

You notice the UAW and their demands?
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CNBC said it good this morning, in a past labor dispute, the manuf gave in to the union and then they closed the plant. UAW has to also consider their survival beyond income, don’t push these manuf to bankruptcy, work with them and control costs or your plant will be closed.
For USA manuf to survive in the future it’s skill and tech evolution+EVs+resonable labor costs
If one of these is disjointed like labor costs then usa vehicle manuf will fail
 
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#366
kpanda17 said:
CNBC said it good this morning, in a past labor dispute, the manuf gave in to the union and then they closed the plant. UAW has to also consider their survival beyond income, don’t push these manuf to bankruptcy, work with them and control costs or your plant will be closed.
For USA manuf to survive in the future it’s skill and tech evolution+EVs+resonable labor costs
If one of these is disjointed like labor costs then usa vehicle manuf will fail
Click to expand...
I hope they heed that warning. I don’t care to bail them out…again.
 
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#373
kpanda17 said:
In the USA we need an additional 17% tariff to enable our big 6 of Tesla, Rivian, Lucid, Ford, GM and Stellantis to be able to offer $25K vehicles at a profit sold in the USA
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LOL! With inflation, corporate greed, the wants of Wall Street (e.g. growth on both the top and bottom lines), ummm.. good luck with that.

Have you looked at figures like New-Vehicle Prices Virtually Flat Year Over Year in August Due to Declining Electric Vehicle Prices, Tesla Price Cuts, According to Kelley Blue Book - Cox Automotive Inc. ?
"The average transaction price of a new vehicle in August was $48,451...

The average price paid for a new non-luxury vehicle in August was $44,827..."

Look at https://www.ford.com/ and see how many start at $25K now. GM is maybe a bit better there: Chevrolet Cars, Trucks, SUVs, Crossovers and Vans and a few at Explore Buick SUVs | Encore, Encore GX, Enclave, & Envision. For their other brands? Forget about it. I don't see any at Ram Trucks | Build & Price Yours Today, Discover the Exciting Jeep® SUV and Truck Lineup Today and New Dodge Vehicle Lineup | Dodge SUV & Car Models.

Lucid and Rivian doing it? Ha! I doubt Tesla will get there. If "they do", it would be some BS vehicle sold years late w/more expensive trims/versions sold first then axed due to "lack of demand".
 
#375
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#376
wws said:
He is a doddering old man, who has spent his entire life in government (e.g., never actually producing wealth), and is totally beholden to the unions.
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Biden, Just being a typical political people pleaser playing all sides

I would love a career to stick fenders on a car and make $100K in the Midwest, it’s actually insane and this cost of labor will kill GM, Ford and Stellantis
UAW needs to agree they are in this war against lower cost labor
not kill their last existence before being replaced by robots
 
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#377
www.teslarati.com

Toyota admits it is learning from specialized EV makers on gigacasting technology

Recent comments from the Japanese automaker also indicate that Toyota is learning new technologies from rivals in the auto sector.
www.teslarati.com www.teslarati.com

I've seen suggestions that Toyota isn't just copying Gigacasting they are going to adopt parts of the unboxed method of production.

And I expect them to deploy considerable resources tearing down and analysing Tesla vehicles in future.

IMO this is a turning point for Toyota, there is nothing wrong with diligent copying when a competitors product is superior.

This question of Tesla patents and how close Toyota will come to infringing patents. I expect Tesla and Toyota can negotiate a win-win outcome here, either formally or implicitly.
 
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#378
Remember, after WWII, USA had to and helped Japan rebuild their industrial base and specifically helped them build Toyota and others
All of our secret sauce at the time, just in time manuf, robust engineering, and then the rest is history
Japan and Toyota mastered auto manuf better then the USA, but we absolutely got them started
Then China copied Tesla over the last 10 years
Now Japan will also copy Tesla

It’s amazing
South Korea, China and Japan all copying Tesla
 
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#379
kpanda17 said:
Remember, after WWII, USA had to and helped Japan rebuild their industrial base and specifically helped them build Toyota and others
All of our secret sauce at the time, just in time manuf, robust engineering, and then the rest is history
Japan and Toyota mastered auto manuf better then the USA, but we absolutely got them started
Click to expand...



Uh... what?

JIT was invented by the Japanese... Toyota specifically.

it was the natural evolution of the lean manufacturing movement... you can point all the way back to Ford for some of the much broader ideas, but Ford was making a a huge volume of basically identical products with no capacity for variety and was not coupled to demand levels- and was hardly a secret of any kind 30+ years later when Toyota was developing JIT.

This dude-
en.wikipedia.org

Taiichi Ohno - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Is considered the father of it. He, also, is Japanese and was a Toyota exec and it wasn't until the 1980s and later US companies began to copy the Japanese on this.
 
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