The DOJ Tesla probe has expanded to include EV driving ranges

[Macb00kemdanno]

I’ve never been able to get anywhere close to 263 miles on my 2021 SR+ at highway speeds. The best I can do is a little over 200 it seems. Our 2023 Model Y also comes up well short.

The DOJ Tesla probe has expanded to include EV driving ranges

Tesla says the DOJ has asked for information related to EV vehicle ranges and "personal benefits" afforded to senior management, company directors or major shareholders.

www.engadget.com

Main source here:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/23/business/tesla-justice-department-investigations.html

Seems as though some of the blowback that caught the DOJs attention was from CR testing, which shows the Model Y underperforming in all conditions compared to the competition.

CR Tests Show Electric Car Range Can Fall Far Short of Claims - Consumer Reports

Over the past year, Consumer Reports sought to answer this question by conducting seasonal testing on popular, new EVs: Ford Mustang Mach-E, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Tesla Model Y, and Volkswagen ID.4.

www.consumerreports.org

 

[Cosmacelf]

And so? Aren’t these EPA mileages?

 

[Macb00kemdanno]

And so? Aren’t these EPA mileages?

IIRC, the EPA provides the guidelines for testing, and the manufacturers submit the results. So it’s not like the EPA is testing every vehicle. However companies can get audited if big discrepancies are found.

In this case, Ford, VW and Hyundai EVs are meeting or exceeding their EPA ratings under ideal conditions. Teslas are falling well short.

Wouldn’t you smell a rat if the Model Y is rated for 326 miles and goes 274, while the Mach-E is rated for 270 and goes 275? Why is the Model Y falling 50 miles short, while the competition is closer to their EPA target?

 

[3sr+buyer]

I’ve never been able to get anywhere close to 263 miles on my 2021 SR+ at highway speeds. The best I can do is a little over 200 it seems.

What is "highway speed" for you?

How fast you drive on the highway makes a big difference in economy and range.

 

[Macb00kemdanno]

What is "highway speed" for you?

How fast you drive on the highway makes a big difference in economy and range.

The same speed that CR used. Speed limits around here are mainly 65. I set the AP at 70 mph.

Even so, CR is still testing all EVs under the same conditions, so that point is moot.

 

[fholbert]

The numbers seem off to me.

Is it possible they are testing the MY standard 284 mile model and using the MYLR numbers? If you search parts, accessories, tires for MY you only find LR and P models. It could be an easy mistake.

 

[Macb00kemdanno]

The numbers seem off to me.

Is it possible they are testing the MY standard 284 mile model and using the MYLR numbers? If you search parts, accessories, tires for MY you only find LR and P models. It could be an easy mistake.

View attachment 984925

This is Consumer Reports, not some random car website or YouTube channel. I highly doubt they are that incompetent.

Additional data points:

Tesla vastly overstates its vehicles' range, report states

A new report out today details that Tesla, the world’s leading electric vehicle maker, is gaming the EPA system to...

electrek.co

 

[fholbert]

This is Consumer Reports, not some random car website or YouTube channel. I highly doubt they are that incompetent.

Additional data points:

Tesla vastly overstates its vehicles' range, report states

A new report out today details that Tesla, the world’s leading electric vehicle maker, is gaming the EPA system to...

electrek.co

Then CR listed the wrong model on their graphics. Either way, somewhere there is an error.

The standard MY has never claimed a 326 mile range.

 

[Unobtanium]

IIRC, the EPA provides the guidelines for testing, and the manufacturers submit the results. So it’s not like the EPA is testing every vehicle. However companies can get audited if big discrepancies are found.

In this case, Ford, VW and Hyundai EVs are meeting or exceeding their EPA ratings under ideal conditions. Teslas are falling well short.

Wouldn’t you smell a rat if the Model Y is rated for 326 miles and goes 274, while the Mach-E is rated for 270 and goes 275? Why is the Model Y falling 50 miles short, while the competition is closer to their EPA target?

Its never been a secret that Tesla overrates their ranges.

 

[SabrToothSqrl]

Owned 4 Teslas, Wife's on #3.
All Tesla range is BS.
They have more than enough data to post real numbers.
About time this was forced.

 

[fholbert]

Its never been a secret that Tesla overrates their ranges.

All manufactures overrate mileage. I’ve owned a lot of new cars in my life, none of them get near the mileage on the sticker.

I‘m not defending Tesla, I think Tesla’s are overrated across the board. All Estimated EPA Mileage needs to be fixed.

 

[gt2690b]

IIRC, the EPA provides the guidelines for testing, and the manufacturers submit the results. So it’s not like the EPA is testing every vehicle. However companies can get audited if big discrepancies are found.

In this case, Ford, VW and Hyundai EVs are meeting or exceeding their EPA ratings under ideal conditions. Teslas are falling well short.

Wouldn’t you smell a rat if the Model Y is rated for 326 miles and goes 274, while the Mach-E is rated for 270 and goes 275? Why is the Model Y falling 50 miles short, while the competition is closer to their EPA target?

Tesla could be using the 5 cycle test while ford is using the 2 cycle test.. either way.. the consumer deserves better

 

[gt2690b]

All manufactures overrate mileage. I’ve owned a lot of new cars in my life, none of them get near the mileage on the sticker.

this is true but i gotta admit the Y is flagrant.. i had a 2012 model S before my Y and the ranges were much more reasonable

in fact.. they basically both go about the same distance but the Y advertises far higher

 

[fholbert]

this is true but i gotta admit the Y is flagrant.. i had a 2012 model S before my Y and the ranges were much more reasonable

in fact.. they basically both go about the same distance but the Y advertises far higher

I’d never heard that before.

 

[Macb00kemdanno]

Then CR listed the wrong model on their graphics. Either way, somewhere there is an error.



View attachment 984927

CR never said they tested a Standard Range. They tested a Long Range. The test was conducted in 2022, and they likely used a 2021 Model Y. Going right to the EPA's website:

Compare Side-by-Side

Compare the MPG of cars and trucks side-by-side. Compare the gas mileage and greenhouse gas emissions of new and used cars and trucks

www.fueleconomy.gov

They specifically say in the article that they tested a Model Y Long Range, and the numbers they got are largely in line with what people are seeing in the real world. Has anyone here ever gotten 320+ miles per charge on a Model Y LR?

 

[gt2690b]

I’d never heard that before.

E.G.

S: ~85KWH battery / 286 wh/mi lifetime give an average of = 297mi range - i think the stated range was 265
Y: ~78KWH battery / 270 wh/mi lifetime give an average of = 289mi range - vs stated range of 326

 

[gt2690b]

CR never said they tested a Standard Range. They tested a Long Range. The test was conducted in 2022, and they likely used a 2021 Model Y. Going right to the EPA's website:

View attachment 984931

Compare Side-by-Side

Compare the MPG of cars and trucks side-by-side. Compare the gas mileage and greenhouse gas emissions of new and used cars and trucks

www.fueleconomy.gov

They specifically say in the article that they tested a Model Y Long Range, and the numbers they got are largely in line with what people are seeing in the real world. Has anyone here ever gotten 320+ miles per charge on a Model Y LR?

he's just saying the graphic is wrong.. the graphic doesnt say LR and one would assume if it doesnt specify it means standard

 

[Macb00kemdanno]

he's just saying the graphic is wrong.. the graphic doesnt say LR and one would assume if it doesnt specify it means standard

Or, instead of assuming, one could just read the article? That's all I'm saying. You know the context if you read the Consumer Reports article I linked that the graphic comes from.

I posted the graphic and even provided the source link. I just don't understand how there can be any confusion.

Over the past year, Consumer Reports sought to answer these questions by conducting seasonal testing on popular new all-wheel-drive EVs: the Ford Mustang Mach-E extended range, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Tesla Model Y Long Range, and Volkswagen ID.4 Pro S. We found temperatures can have impact, but Tesla stands out for coming up short of claimed range no matter the weather.

CR Tests Show Electric Car Range Can Fall Far Short of Claims - Consumer Reports

Over the past year, Consumer Reports sought to answer this question by conducting seasonal testing on popular, new EVs: Ford Mustang Mach-E, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Tesla Model Y, and Volkswagen ID.4.

www.consumerreports.org

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Its never been a secret that Tesla overrates their ranges.

It's never been a secret that Tesla doesn't try to be accurate.

 

[gt2690b]

Or, instead of assuming, one could just read the article? That's all I'm saying. You know the context if you read the Consumer Reports article I linked that the graphic comes from.

I posted the graphic and even provided the source link. I just don't understand how there can be any confusion.

CR Tests Show Electric Car Range Can Fall Far Short of Claims - Consumer Reports

Over the past year, Consumer Reports sought to answer this question by conducting seasonal testing on popular, new EVs: Ford Mustang Mach-E, Hyundai Ioniq 5, Tesla Model Y, and Volkswagen ID.4.

www.consumerreports.org

tl;dr