-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
The DOJ Tesla probe has expanded to include EV driving ranges
- Thread starter Macb00kemdanno
- Start date
Every single Tesla fell short of advertised. Every. One. They join only Lucid, and the BZ4X in this honor.
Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds
Which EVs have the best electric car range? The EPA provides range estimates for every electric vehicle, but they don't test EV range in the real world -- and Edmunds does. Read all the latest real-world EV test results from the Edmunds experts.
www.edmunds.com
E90alex
Active Member
I don’t care about which was tested in more scientific conditions because I don’t drive my car in controlled a dyno lab. As long as the testing method is relatively consistent between cars then they can be compared. Eg out of spec on YouTube’s 70mph highway range test and various magazines do range tests on their test tracks. Tesla always comes up far short of EPA rated.
Real world results are what matters because we drive in the real world. It doesn’t matter if a car gets 500 miles in ideal lab conditions but in the real world it only gets 200. Because the buyer will expect to get the rated number but can never achieve it in actuality.
But no, the EPA numbers cannot be directly compared either. Both Tesla and EPA are at fault here. EPA allows companies to do either a 2 cycle test or 5 cycle test. Most companies do the 2 cycle. 5 cycle yields higher numbers. Companies are also free to take a voluntary deduction of whatever they want. Some companies may prefer to advertise a lower number but is more realistic or even under promise and over deliver (eg Porsche Taycan). Other companies like Tesla and Lucid want to advertise the highest number possible to attract buyers even if that number may never be achievable in real world driving conditions.
More apples to oranges testing:Every single Tesla fell short of advertised. Every. One. They join only Lucid, and the BZ4X in this honor.
Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds
Which EVs have the best electric car range? The EPA provides range estimates for every electric vehicle, but they don't test EV range in the real world -- and Edmunds does. Read all the latest real-world EV test results from the Edmunds experts.www.edmunds.com
"In short, this is the approximate number of miles that a vehicle can travel in combined city and highway driving (using a mix of 55% highway and 45% city driving) before needing to be recharged, according to the EPA's testing methodology."
"Edmunds begins with full battery charge and drives an electric vehicle on a mix of city and highway roads (approximately 60% city, 40% highway) until the battery is almost entirely empty. (We target 10 miles of remaining range for safety.) The miles traveled and the indicated remaining range are added together for the Edmunds total tested range figure. "
So they do more highway, stop with 10 miles listed left, and ignores the safety buffer (if any) that EPA uses.
This helps explain the discrepancy between lower than rated range and lower than rated Wh/mile.
Model, difference from EPA in miles, % range, % consumption
3 LR, -8, -2.3, -2.6
S Plaid, -3, -0.9, +2.7
S Perf, -8, -2.5, +6.3
Y LR, -9, -2.9, +3.0
3 Perf, -54, -17.4, -3.8
X LR, -34, -10.4, 0.0
3 SR+, -18, -7.2, +4.2
If Tesla has a 10 mile buffer after 0% SOC, the vehicles hit their range except for X long range, 3 P, and 3SR+.
The X data is really strange since it should have been able to go the full 328 miles using 94 kWh out of the 100kWh pack.
Similarly, the 3SR+ had better Wh/mile, but lower range. This could indicate a higher % buffer.
Actually, no. This is its own type of FUD that’s popular in some corners of the forum. Saying positive things about unionized auto makers isn’t the same as not wanting Tesla to succeed. The administration loves it some unions and can’t see far past the old school big 3. There has never been direct animosity towards Tesla. Just the usual regulatory BS which sometimes is OK, sometimes isn’t.
Is the Bjorn 1000km challenge real world enough for you? because Tesla's generally dominate that test as well.. with the model 3 LR efficiency really standing out
the Mach E is terrible in the challenge
This is an older graph but .. yes impressive that the model 3 is 1/2 the price of the BMW and gets similar range and speed yet is 10% more efficient
i imagine the M3 Highland will do even better
the fastest car in the challenge now is the new model S
the other cars CR tested are waay down the list ... the Mach E is more behind than even the EPA ratings would suggest
E90alex
Active Member
That’s looking at way more variables than range. We’re talking about published range numbers that people would use to easily compare between different cars or even to plan out trips and charging stops.
People see a rated “330 miles of range” on a Model Y and expect to be able to travel close to that much from a full battery. Not 50 miles less.
But sure, data like that can be also be useful to take into account charging speed and charging curves etc. It’s just not as useful as a quick comparison tool.
Bingo. That’s what people seem to be missing.
The Tesla is scoring about 50 miles below EPA at a constant 70 mph.
The competitors are either very close to their EPA rating or beating it. How is that so hard to understand?
My Model 3 is rated for 263 miles EPA range. Lifetime average at about 50/50 city/highway is 240 wh/mile. If my math is right with just over a 53 whr battery, that works out to an average range of around 222 miles.
What does that challenge have to do with what this discussion is about — which is the stated range. We’re not talking about driving 1000km and how many stops and how long you need to charge.
It’s just a simple question of Tesla saying, your vehicle should drive this many miles per charge and it coming up well short.
If I’m driving a constant 45 - 50 miles per hour; I can hit around 180 - 200 wh/mile depending on the temp, which is right on top of the EPA suggestion for range. But that is not sustainable on the highway.
2021 SR+ NCA battery.
Depending on the source, it’s between 53 and 55 kWh. My Tessie app says the battery is 53.6 kWh
In the end, it'll depend what the DOJ says. At worse, it'll be a small fine and instructing Tesla to change their methodology, but even that is fraught with problems since they'd have to retest all other EVs to be fair.
FWIW, my Model X LR and one year newer Rivian R1S both have approx. 325 EPA ranges, and both have almost identical real world ranges as indicated by driving several trips from full to almost empty in both vehicles. And since I drive rather spiritly on the freeway, I've never expected to get EPA range.
FWIW, my Model X LR and one year newer Rivian R1S both have approx. 325 EPA ranges, and both have almost identical real world ranges as indicated by driving several trips from full to almost empty in both vehicles. And since I drive rather spiritly on the freeway, I've never expected to get EPA range.
It's not hard to understand I've already said it's an injustice.. but this article is also an injustice when they claim a mach e is going to be any where near as road trip friendly as a Tesla
Btw, one reason why people get differing mileages is that they use performance wheels. The wheels and tires make a huge difference, at least 10% and can often be more. That’s probably why my Tesla Model X (using the most efficient wheel/tire combo) is about the same range as my Rivian R1S (using AT tires, very inefficient). If any testing methodology doesn’t explicitly state what tires are being used, then it is useless.
Similar threads
