Doubtful, the new EPA testing procedures only apply to 2024, and newer, model year vehicles.
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The DOJ Tesla probe has expanded to include EV driving ranges
- Thread starter Macb00kemdanno
- Start date
The result is still the same. The EPA numbers are revising DOWNWARD to a more realistic driving range that people were actually getting. Not the previously inflated EPA numbers. The real change, which I found on VW Vortex is this:
I don't know many people who were getting 330 miles in a Model Y unless they were driving like a granny at 55 mph. 300-ish miles is more plausible, and these numbers reflect that.
My whole "Problem" is that Tesla's range disparity between EPA and real world was far greater than its competitors. This change should put things on a more level playing field and provide more transparency to customers.
zoomer0056
Active Member
Two different premises do not define the same story. The quote below "all is the same" should have been the lead in the post.
I haven't seen that, but I did see that they now require testing in both the worst, and best, settings for both drive mode and height, and you have to then average the results. There may be other changes to the procedures as well.
That all depends on your testing and definition of "real world"... Edmunds tests show that Tesla's range estimates are more accurate than just about everyone else:
Edmonds, who doesn't tend to be pro-Tesla, tested actual range against the rated EPA range: Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds And Tesla came out the closest to the EPA range of all of the cars they tested.
They haven't tested a 2023, but there is no reason to think that they would perform much different than everything else they tested.
The data for the top, and bottom, 10 stolen from @exxxviii's post in another thread:
| Rank | Vehicle | EPA Range | Edmunds Range | Range Precision |
| 1 | 2021 Tesla Model S Plaid | 348 miles | 345 miles | 0.9% |
| 2 | 2022 Rivian R1T Launch Edition | 314 miles | 317 miles | 1.0% |
| 3 | 2021 Tesla Model 3 Long Range | 353 miles | 345 miles | 2.3% |
| 4 | 2020 Tesla Model S Performance | 326 miles | 318 miles | 2.5% |
| 5 | 2021 Tesla Model Y Long Range | 326 miles | 317 miles | 2.8% |
| 6 | 2022 Lucid Air Dream Range | 520 miles | 505 miles | 2.9% |
| 7 | 2022 Kia EV6 GT-Line dual motor | 274 miles | 283 miles | 3.3% |
| 8 | 2022 Kia EV6 Wind RWD | 310 miles | 323 miles | 4.2% |
| 9 | 2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E GT Performance | 260 miles | 272 miles | 4.6% |
| 10 | 2022 Porsche Taycan GTS | 246 miles | 259 miles | 5.3% |
| 22 | 2021 Volkswagen ID.4 Pro | 260 miles | 288 miles | 10.8% |
| 29 | 2021 Volkswagen ID.4 Pro S dual motor | 240 miles | 272 miles | 13.3% |
| 35 | 2021 Volkswagen ID.4 First Edition | 250 miles | 287 miles | 14.8% |
| 44 | 2020 Hyundai Ioniq Electric | 170 miles | 202 miles | 18.8% |
| 45 | 2020 Kia Niro EV | 239 miles | 285 miles | 19.2% |
| 46 | 2022 Hyundai Kona Electric | 258 miles | 308 miles | 19.4% |
| 47 | 2022 BMW iX xDrive50 (22-in wheels) | 315 miles | 377 miles | 19.7% |
| 48 | 2022 Mercedes-Benz AMG EQS 53 4Matic | 277 miles | 332 miles | 19.9% |
| 49 | 2022 Mercedes-Benz EQS 450+ | 350 miles | 422 miles | 20.6% |
| 50 | 2022 Audi RS e-tron GT | 232 miles | 285 miles | 22.8% |
| 51 | 2022 Porsche Taycan (20-in wheels) | 225 miles | 286 miles | 27.1% |
| 52 | 2020 MINI Cooper SE | 110 miles | 150 miles | 36.4% |
| 53 | 2020 Porsche Taycan 4S (20-in wheels) | 203 miles | 323 miles | 59.1% |
The EPA doesn't test every vehicle. They publish test procedures. The automakers perform the testing and report the results to the EPA. The EPA "spot checks" less than 1 out of 5.
How Vehicles Are Tested
Fuel economy is measured under controlled conditions in a laboratory using a standardized test procedure specified by federal law. Manufacturers test their own vehicles—usually pre-production prototypes—and report the results to EPA. EPA reviews the results and confirms about 10-15 percent of...
www.fueleconomy.gov
exxxviii
Member
The problem is that the EPA protocol is a disaster created by morons. Tesla follows the protocol flawlessly and produces ranges that meet the EPA criteria. Reviewers get Tesla's range numbers when they simulate the test protocol. So, external verification. The other automakers dramatically (and arbitrarily) sandbag their EPA numbers which makes the whole thing useless for vehicle comparison. Don't hate the player, hate the game.
EPA needs to scrap and totally recreate a BEV protocol that makes sense. They need to delete "MPGe," because that is even stupider than the overall protocol. New EPA could include a city range test, but it also needs a highway range protocol, like steady 65 MPH, 70 MPH, or 75 MPH range. InsideEVs, Car & Driver, and now Consumer Reports are all doing range tests like these, and they are more valuable than EPA for judging a car's range during highway driving.
Here's the full list of changes:
| 2023 EPA Rating | 2024 EPA Rating | |
| Model S Long Range | 405 mi | 405 mi |
| Model S Plaid | 396 mi | 359 mi |
| Model X Long Range | 348 mi | 335 mi |
| Model X Plaid | 333 mi | 326 mi |
| Model Y RWD | 260 mi | 260 mi |
| Model Y Long Range | 330 mi | 310 mi |
| Model Y Performance | 303 mi | 285 mi |
Tesla Updates EPA Range for 3 Vehicles and Introduces New Model Y Colors
Tesla updates Model S, X, Y with efficiency-focused changes in its latest electric vehicle software update, Model Y gets new color options.
www.notateslaapp.com
Tesla Updates EPA Range for 3 Vehicles and Introduces New Model Y Colors
Tesla updates Model S, X, Y with efficiency-focused changes in its latest electric vehicle software update, Model Y gets new color options.
www.notateslaapp.com
More faster would likely be handy.
Some hings to be aware of:
The EPA 5 cycle does have a high speed test (80MPH max, but 48 MPH average) and the results are available for manufacturers that use it.
The EPA multicycle range test includes two sections at 65 MPH (these consume the remainder of the battery not drained by the four city and two highway cycles).
The range test and MPG test for EVs are different whereas ICE only has MPG and range is determined by reported tank size.
MPGe is just a scaled kWh/100mile number for comparison
Wow, that model S plaid to a hit.Here's the full list of changes:
2023 EPA Rating 2024 EPA Rating Model S Long Range 405 mi 405 mi Model S Plaid 396 mi 359 mi Model X Long Range 348 mi 335 mi Model X Plaid 333 mi 326 mi Model Y RWD 260 mi 260 mi Model Y Long Range 330 mi 310 mi Model Y Performance 303 mi 285 mi
Tesla Updates EPA Range for 3 Vehicles and Introduces New Model Y Colors
Tesla updates Model S, X, Y with efficiency-focused changes in its latest electric vehicle software update, Model Y gets new color options.
I can't find anything that supports that. Just this EPA document on the changes to the procedures starting in 2024 which don't mention the adjustment factor:
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Guessing track mode wastes a lot of energy conditioning the battery...
exxxviii
Member
The problem with "MPGe" is that there is no "G." It is an asinine, contrived metric to try to equate BEV efficiency into something familiar for legacy ICEV-minded people. They should have made a clean break and specified watt-hours/mile or watt-hours/km as the metric. That 33.7 equivalency factor is work of preschoolers. That constant isn't even true, because the energy varies greatly between types of gasoline and seasonal mix.
It is not scaled version of kWh/100mile, because they flipped the fraction with MPGe. Also, whomever created kWh/100mile should be spanked. That is a terrible unit of measure with an unneeded constant baked in. The no-brainer is simply Wh/mile. These idiots are just making society stupider. (I also dislike miles/kWh as a metric too, but that is a whole other rant.)
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"Ge" Gallon equivalent (amount of energy)...
Inversely proportional then...
Do you want pack size in Wh also?
Just add a 0 to the 28...
exxxviii
Member
I'm kind of tongue-and-cheek on this. But at a summary level, it is terrible science and misleading. "Ge" is made up and fundamentally just wrong. It is literally not a "gasoline equivalent." A BEV has the same efficiency year round and because electricity does not change its energy density. Gasoline energy density is practically arbitrary based on when, where, and with what someone fills up, so 33.7 is el-stupido.
Pack size at Wh would be ridiculous. The metric system solves for this. kWh is the appropriate scaled metric for pack size. Due to scale, Wh is appropriate for efficiency.
That said, mixing pseudo-SI units with Imperial units is also pretty stupid. But that is another rant for another day. Could you imagine the mental chaos if carmakers were required to express efficiency in joules/mile? Or BTU/mile? Or calories/mile?
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I'm assuming the 5-cycle test:
Calculating Electric Vehicle Range with Simulation
Range anxiety is a common concern for electric vehicles (EV). See how simulation can streamline the EV range process.
www.gtisoft.com
So the best I can gather is that
1) Tesla was using the old 5-cycle test prior to 2024, which was overly optimistic
2) Tesla is now using the 2-cycle test with the 0.7 default adjustment factor like all the other EV manufacturers were using due to new EPA guidance
Someone, please correct me if I'm wrong.
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BigNick
Infamous Fat Sweaty Guy
So either the Model 3's 2023 ratings were bang-on, or they didn't bother re-rating the 2024 Model 3s due to imminent Highland rollout. My money is on Door #2.Here's the full list of changes:
2023 EPA Rating 2024 EPA Rating Model S Long Range 405 mi 405 mi Model S Plaid 396 mi 359 mi Model X Long Range 348 mi 335 mi Model X Plaid 333 mi 326 mi Model Y RWD 260 mi 260 mi Model Y Long Range 330 mi 310 mi Model Y Performance 303 mi 285 mi
Tesla Updates EPA Range for 3 Vehicles and Introduces New Model Y Colors
Tesla updates Model S, X, Y with efficiency-focused changes in its latest electric vehicle software update, Model Y gets new color options.
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