The M3 terrifies BMW

[Red Sage]

The 2000 Honda Insight most assuredly gets better mileage than your hybrid! 70
MPG EPA on the sticker. Beat that.

That was under the old EPA 2-Cycle testing. Under the current EPA 5-Cycle testing regimen, the fuel economy is a bit less than that.

 

[Red Sage]

The exaggerated defensiveness of Teslarati in this thread demonstrates it. They are totally terrified of BMW's EV's.

I would be terrified to be limited to a whole 14 miles of fully electric range or less after spending so much money. That is literally 4% of the car's overall range. At about $6,000 less, the Chevrolet VOLT offers 70 more miles of overall range, and 12.6% of that is fully electric. [FOUL] BMW.

 

[Red Sage]

Except the pitchfork Teslarati in this thread aren't laughing they are freaking out of over BMW selling EV's.

No. We are freaking out over BMW offering pitiful electric vehicles and crippled plug-in hybrids.

 

[Red Sage]

Ford Fusion Energi has equal emissions and MPGe to a Tesla 70. Prius has done more to cut oil use and emissions than Tesla will do in 10 years with their most ambitious sales plan.

Show me that highly efficient Prius that has even a 50 mile all electric range, let alone 200 miles, and will get you to 60 MPH from a dead stop in under six seconds. Go ahead. I'll wait.

The Fusion Energi, as noted previously, is definitely a better buy than the BMW 330e. That does not make it a better buy than the Tesla Model S 70. Especially not if someone is determined not to burn gasoline in their car.

The Teslerati here are more like TeslaTrumper's saying all kinds of crazy things to justify an untenable position that the Tesla is the ONLY EV plug in one should buy.

Hey! There's no need to be insulting! [DELTA TANGO] need not be brought into this discussion at all!

 

[Red Sage]

Time to employ the ignore button again

I'm thinking you may be correct... I just want to get in a few more jabs first, Coach!

 

[Red Sage]

I am usually the first to admit there certainly exists a Teslarati with pitchforks, and a real issue as mainly a car owner and enthusiast on these forums can be the prevalence of people invested in the TSLA stock and acting accordingly. It makes it tough to discuss some issues, because some people have other motives than just the car ownership.

However, I would also argue at least a part of this "Teslarati" - equally problematic at times from a car ownership discussion perspective - are the EV revolution enthusiasts. They too can be protective of Tesla, but for different reasons than, say, talking up a TSLA investement. They too certainly are on a mission, but that mission transcends Tesla.

And IMO this latter part, the people on the BEV mission - which is probably a big part of the TMC community in general and people in this thread in particular - genuinely would welcome a serious BEV effort from Tesla's competition and, yes, vocally hate the fact that this has not yet happened.

Look, very few outside of Tesla - and certainly none of the expensive Germans - is really trying very hard with their current BEVs. They have their reasons for not trying very hard. They'd probably rather not try very hard. Which results in heavily compromised cars. Maybe in two years they will be trying more, who knows.

Feel free to blame a Tesla fan for snobbery if they dismiss a Leaf or a Bolt, but then I don't think many here do. A lot of people on TMC are genuinely appreciative of at least some efforts from Chevy and Nissan. At least it seems they are trying a bit. You also hear good rapport of the BMW Active-E on these parts, because for the time, it was a relatively competent effort at a BEV, even if a conversion still.

However when the current best a high-end German brand comes up with is an A3 e-tron PHEV or a BMW 330 PHEV or a seriously compromised/weirded out i3 BEV, calling that compromise out is hardly snobbery. Expecting better of these high-end brands is only natural, it comes with their turf.

A day and age when BMW is indeed lacking in snobbery points is a day when BMW, arguably, is doing something wrong. And while out of practical considerations I can see more point in buying PHEVs than some, I genuinely agree BMW (and Audi and MB) have lost their edge when it comes to this hottest thing in cars. They used to be the ones I looked up to and bought. Now, phev... I bought into Tesla because they became better products than the Germans. I am not alone.

Buying a compromised EV from Chevy or Nissan for a price-point comes with the territory (and shame on anyone looking down on that!), but buying a compromised BMW is a lot less appealing.

I mean, buying a bad high-end product is not anti-snobbery, it is just stupid.

Very well stated on all points! Thank you.

I don't particularly like the BMW 3-Series. I think that for many years their cars got by on reputation alone. Perhaps the reputation was deserved, but I don't care. I thought their cars were inherently ugly for a very long time, and I was astounded then, as I am now, at the premium pricing they command (just for being rear wheel drive?) when cars I perceive as being at least as good and likely far better cost quite a bit less money. It's bad enough that the BMW 320i costs around $10,000 more than a Toyota Camry LE. It is far worse when BMW is asking nearly $44,000 for a 330e that has 70 miles less overall range than a $38,000 Chevrolet VOLT that has a two gallon lower fuel capacity. And when an 'as tested' dollar value for the BMW 330e crosses the $60,000 threshold, I am that much more offended. BMW should be neither lauded nor rewarded for this travesty of a vehicle. Because it sucks.

 

[SΞXY P100D]

I "test drove" my friends BMW i3 and I did like it. In a Scion Cube kind of way

Hey, what's with the quotes? Did you think I made up "test drove"?
test drive Definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

 

[Topher]

Jeez, you must drive like a grandma with the AC off... I have a gen II prius (2007) and barely manage 45 mpg. I mean you keep a logbook, so that says something about the care you probably take while driving.

This is a common misconception about hypermiling. The truth is, as usual, more complicated.

Thank you kindly.

 

[JeffK]

This is a common misconception about hypermiling. The truth is, as usual, more complicated.

Thank you kindly.

Not really complicated, but thanks for the dislike it's always a pleasure

The new 2008 EPA ratings for my 2007 Prius are 51 mpg and at 45 mpg in the summers I think I'm doing pretty well. I find it interesting when someone who also has a Gen II prius get's much better gas mileage than I do. The truth is not more complicated than basically driving more conservatively, AC, acceleration, velocity, and even tire inflation are all important factors in energy usage required for a vehicle to go certain distances. It's not some magical voodoo.

I'd love to see a person drive more aggressively than I do in a Gen II Prius with the AC or heat on and get significantly better gas mileage... It'd make me think there's something wrong with my car.

 

[Neohippy]

The Priui still burn gasoline. Just because they save some vs. non-hybrids, doesn't put them in the same league as a full BEV. That's like saying I saved $100 buying this watch on sale for $200. No, you didn't SAVE $100, you still spent $200.

I own a 2010 Prius and bought it to save on gas. I had a Lexus GS430. If you are looking for something economical and great realizability nothing beats it. The new Prius prime has double the range on the battery. I'm buying a M3 because I miss the performance and luxury that my Prius lacks. I'm just hoping the new M3 is going to reliable. I have owned mostly Toyota and Honda products so I'm used to that.

 

[Topher]

Not really complicated, but thanks for the dislike it's always a pleasure

Glad to hear you like feedback.

I am not a great hypermiler, but I get 62MPG on a specific route I take a lot, when I am paying attention to hypermiling, and 55 MPG when I am not. Same car, same route, same time (i.e. same average speed). People who are really good get 110 MPG in (roughly) the same car (on what I presume are similar circumstances). It is complicated. You should investigate it.

Thank you kindly.

 

[Chopr147]

Hey, what's with the quotes? Did you think I made up "test drove"?
test drive Definition in the Cambridge English Dictionary

Yes you made it up for this forum! Just kidding. The quotes were because it was my friends car not a dealership test drive.

 

[ex-bimmer]

As a life long BMW owner* and (now former) fan boy I am thoroughly embarrassed BMW would resort to something this stupid.
Only thing I can think of is they're trying to sway the rabid BMW fanatics.

*My car ownership history. (I've been a member of the BMW Car Club of America for about 20 years as well.)
1983 BMW 533i
1992 BMW 325i
2001 BMW 330i
2011 BMW 335i (looking very much like the last one)

 

[SageBrush]

I am not a great hypermiler, but I get 62MPG on a specific route I take a lot, when I am paying attention to hypermiling, and 55 MPG when I am not. Same car, same route, same time (i.e. same average speed). People who are really good get 110 MPG in (roughly) the same car (on what I presume are similar circumstances). It is complicated. You should investigate it.

Hi Topher,

Well ... 110 mpg in a Prius on a round-trip course has only been achieved by driving ~ 20-25 mph average so far as I know. My 12 years experience driving Toyota hybrids in a not-too-congested city and obeying the speed limits was ~ 70 mpg average during temperate weather and no better than 80 mpg round-trip.

That caveat aside, you are right that hypermiling is a lot more than just slow driving as JeffK tries to imply. OTOH, "aggressive" driving (by which I mostly mean speeding to red lights and riding the two pedals) will take any car down and level the results, hybrids included.

--
As an aside, and somewhat back to this thread, JeffK reminds me why I have not completely abandoned the idea of buying the 22 mile plug-in Prius instead of the TM3. I estimate our current annual use patterns work out to ~ 15,000 miles a year consuming ~ 100 gallons of fuel in the plug-in. This is in part true because I hypermile and do not really care about driving 75 mph+ to work instead of 65 mph. If my commute was considerably longer I would feel different.

These BEV purity arguments mostly do not persuade me since I tend to be tech agnostic and focused on environmental results, but the plug-in does surprisingly well for my use case despite the nominally crappy sticker numbers:

Average American ICE car: 750 gallon a year
Prius 22 mile plug-in: 100 gallons a year
Tesla: 0 gallons a year

86% reduction in petrol use employing ~ 15 20% the battery size.
And yes, I realize that the Tesla gives me more battery in-lieu of the ICE. I only want to point out that these "awful" plug-ins that Teslarati are so quick to disparage can be quite reasonable choices. The tribal witch-hunting is getting old.

 

[Big Dog]

not sure I agree, jayc

but the general population did not bother because a bunch of boy racer clark-son wanna-be journalists gave hybrids a bad name.

As part of the general population, I never got on board bcos I believe that Prius & Leaf (and others) are butt-ugly. I was actually impressed with some of their performances, however, so not swayed by journalists.

OTOH, here in California, those car pool lane stickers are clearly worth the "look" and if I still had a long commute I would have jumped at a Prius -- for the car pool lane.

Wind back 20 years and it was perfectly fine for a green car or EV to look special or different and for it to come with a host of limitations because at the time it was good enough just being clean and efficient.

Yeah, but just for early adopters.

The problem with Tesla's competition (including all other EVs and Hybrids) is that somewhere along the line, they forgot that eventually, green cars will also have to look and perform very well in order to appeal to the next generation car buyer

No, not next generation, but mass market; in other words, the masses of the current generation. And if 20 years ago, a Prius looked like a M3.....

 

[glenhurst]

LOL.

Yes I'm happy, however it's not a full smile and I'm going to have to get rid of it once the M3 is available. I'm even thinking about going to California and driving the M3 back to Chicago.

Its not simply the monthly note of the M6.... Its the insurance and mandatory service calls that is adding up. The only thing that is really helping is the lack of having to buy gas. Everything else costs more than my ICE. But that's ok. I'll struggle through it.

Out of curiousity, if the MS was a reach, perhaps too much of a reach, why didn't you opt for a Leaf?

 

[Garlan Garner]

Out of curiousity, if the MS was a reach, perhaps too much of a reach, why didn't you opt for a Leaf?

The leaf didn't have the range I needed.

My job is exactly 49.3 miles from my driveway.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

The leaf didn't have the range I needed.

My job is exactly 49.3 miles from my driveway.

My Leaf is rated at 107 miles.

 

[Garlan Garner]

My Leaf is rated at 107 miles.

LOL yeah. I'm not willing to chance making it to work and back home every day with only 7 miles to spare. What if:

The wind blows against me all the way
Or if I have to take a detour
Or if I want to go out for lunch
Or if it rains ( more power needed to go through water )
Or if I want to run the AC
Or if I want to go more than 55mph
Or if the regenerative braking doesn't work properly. wait what?
Or if the auto-pilot draws a little more power than it should. wait what am I saying
Or if I want to demonstrate to my friends what the Ludicrous mode is. wait....that makes no sense.
Or if I want to look cool.
Or if __________ <--- Insert anything you like in here.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

LOL yeah. I'm not willing to chance making it to work and back home every day with only 7 miles to spare. What if:

The wind blows against me all the way
Or if I have to take a detour
Or if I want to go out for lunch
Or if it rains ( more power needed to go through water )
Or if ___________

That's no way to live. Living on the edge is where it's at!