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The M3 terrifies BMW

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Out of curiosity, have you ever seen a thread of such near hysteric Tesla snobs terrified of Tesla competitors?
I watched a Louis CK special a few nights ago. I laughed quite a bit. I guess because I'm terrified of him.

*Edited after your edit. Ah, those Eagles. Yeah, I grew up near Philly - didn't recognize the avatar as related to them, though. Those Eagles make a lot of personnel mistakes, not just the ones you mentioned. Seems to be a habit.
 
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I've been wanting to say this, however I didn't want to get blasted. The S made me struggle financially and that was stupid.

No blasting necessary. The S (even in the base models) is a luxury for sure, no getting around that. Really great that you realized it and have an option to transition to the Model 3. Have you thought about selling now and using Uber/Lyft until you can get your 3? (Or willing to continue so that you can keep your place in line?)
 
Except the pitchfork Teslarati in this thread aren't laughing they are freaking out of over BMW selling EV's.

You no nothing Eagles PDX... Us pitchfork Teslarati would really welcome a true BMW Performance EV Sedan, the whole point is to transition to a post ICE world. We want all of the ICE companies to get EV religion and join Tesla on this new playing field. What is hilarious is that instead of accelerating their development into the obvious solution, they are developing commercials trying to lure the EV customer base to their shitty plug-in hybrids.
 
The exaggerated defensiveness of Teslarati in this thread demonstrates it. They are totally terrified of BMW's EV's
What an absurd statement. Tesla fans want every automaker to build long range BEVs that people want to buy because they are compelling cars. Pathetic hybrids that go a few miles on electricity are not a solution to anything.

Your exaggerated defensiveness of the i3 is terrifying.
 
What an absurd statement. Tesla fans want every automaker to build long range BEVs that people want to buy because they are compelling cars. Pathetic hybrids that go a few miles on electricity are not a solution to anything.

Ford Fusion Energi has equal emissions and MPGe to a Tesla 70. Prius has done more to cut oil use and emissions than Tesla will do in 10 years with their most ambitious sales plan.

The Teslerati here are more like TeslaTrumper's saying all kinds of crazy things to justify an untenable position that the Tesla is the ONLY EV plug in one should buy.
 
Except the pitchfork Teslarati in this thread aren't laughing they are freaking out of over BMW selling EV's.

I am usually the first to admit there certainly exists a Teslarati with pitchforks, and a real issue as mainly a car owner and enthusiast on these forums can be the prevalence of people invested in the TSLA stock and acting accordingly. It makes it tough to discuss some issues, because some people have other motives than just the car ownership.

However, I would also argue at least a part of this "Teslarati" - equally problematic at times from a car ownership discussion perspective - are the EV revolution enthusiasts. They too can be protective of Tesla, but for different reasons than, say, talking up a TSLA investement. They too certainly are on a mission, but that mission transcends Tesla.

And IMO this latter part, the people on the BEV mission - which is probably a big part of the TMC community in general and people in this thread in particular - genuinely would welcome a serious BEV effort from Tesla's competition and, yes, vocally hate the fact that this has not yet happened.

Look, very few outside of Tesla - and certainly none of the expensive Germans - is really trying very hard with their current BEVs. They have their reasons for not trying very hard. They'd probably rather not try very hard. Which results in heavily compromised cars. Maybe in two years they will be trying more, who knows.

Feel free to blame a Tesla fan for snobbery if they dismiss a Leaf or a Bolt, but then I don't think many here do. A lot of people on TMC are genuinely appreciative of at least some efforts from Chevy and Nissan. At least it seems they are trying a bit. You also hear good rapport of the BMW Active-E on these parts, because for the time, it was a relatively competent effort at a BEV, even if a conversion still.

However when the current best a high-end German brand comes up with is an A3 e-tron PHEV or a BMW 330 PHEV or a seriously compromised/weirded out i3 BEV, calling that compromise out is hardly snobbery. Expecting better of these high-end brands is only natural, it comes with their turf.

A day and age when BMW is indeed lacking in snobbery points is a day when BMW, arguably, is doing something wrong. And while out of practical considerations I can see more point in buying PHEVs than some, I genuinely agree BMW (and Audi and MB) have lost their edge when it comes to this hottest thing in cars. They used to be the ones I looked up to and bought. Now, phev... I bought into Tesla because they became better products than the Germans. I am not alone.

Buying a compromised EV from Chevy or Nissan for a price-point comes with the territory (and shame on anyone looking down on that!), but buying a compromised BMW is a lot less appealing.

I mean, buying a bad high-end product is not anti-snobbery, it is just stupid.
 
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Of course, but there is a difference between no options and some options. For some reaching into that lowest price point from below, the beef may be the EV drive - for some of them, the car at its most basic is already the greatest car they've ever bought.

As I said, perhaps the base Model S shouldn't be considered a 77000 eur (or $75,000 car) car for an average base buyer, but I would expect calling it an 80000 to 85000 eur car is a lot closer to the point than, say, calling it a 100000 eur car. I really have a bit hard time seeing many buying loaded or nearly-loaded S60s, but people buying them at some level about 80k sounds a lot more likely to me.

For the math, I guess we had different exchange rates on hand, but no need to dwell on that. We both agree 100k USD certainly comes up faster in EU Model S pricing than in the U.S. :)

But the thing is, if you are already buying the base model, how likely is it that you will buy it nearly loaded?

About the exchange rate, yes, oops, mybad. Have gotten that one the wrong way round. Anyway, you got my drift ;)

But about the other point: the average new car selling price in Germany last year was 28.5K Euro. Cars that cost in excess of 80K Euro are a rarity in private hands. Lots of executive company cars on leasing contracts of course, but those in general are not the ones choosing a Tesla. With many large leasing companies over here, Tesla isn't even in their portfolio.

And private customers over here who have that much money to begin with, they tend to indeed buy very well optioned if not even fully loaded vehicles. Problem is, in contrast to the US, people over here don't seem too fond of too much "stretching to get a car", and certainly not in that price range. They might be stretching to get a higher specced VW Passat or a well-optioned C-Class, but not a luxury car.
 
About the exchange rate, yes, oops, mybad. Have gotten that one the wrong way round. Anyway, you got my drift ;)

But about the other point: the average new car selling price in Germany last year was 28.5K Euro. Cars that cost in excess of 80K Euro are a rarity in private hands. Lots of executive company cars on leasing contracts of course, but those in general are not the ones choosing a Tesla. With many large leasing companies over here, Tesla isn't even in their portfolio.

And private customers over here who have that much money to begin with, they tend to indeed buy very well optioned if not even fully loaded vehicles. Problem is, in contrast to the US, people over here don't seem too fond of too much "stretching to get a car", and certainly not in that price range. They might be stretching to get a higher specced VW Passat or a well-optioned C-Class, but not a luxury car.

I will have to cede to your experience on what a German buyer in particular does. I think, in general, on TMC there are plenty of base-level Model S buyers with only a few options and I would imagine this to be true in some parts of Europe at least as well. It certainly seems to be true for the U.S.?

Also, I think Model S is in a bit of a special place anywhere in the world. A notable portion of Model S buyers seem to be people that otherwise would never reach to such a high priced car, yet now have done so because it is the only long-range EV (I expect this sort of upshopping to end completely with the Model 3 of course).

I mean, some people have moved from a Prius to an S Class price range with the Model S. We have such people on TMC. Whether or not this applies to Germany in particular, of course, may be a bit different question.

Germany is... er... special, when it comes to both money and cars... But now I digress into those dangerous stereotypes, sorry. ;)
 
Prius has done more to cut oil use and emissions than Tesla will do in 10 years with their most ambitious sales plan.

I agree with your point about the Prius and I am speaking as an owner. Sometimes I find it hilarious when nowadays people describe how their clean diesels stop and start automatically or how their nissan leaf takes just a second to reach 20mph or even how their EVs are so smooth from start. The fact is that the the Prius was doing this for the past 20 years but the general population did not bother because a bunch of boy racer clark-son wanna-be journalists gave hybrids a bad name.

From Tesla's perspective however, they have done something that no other manufacturer has done successfully and that is, especially with Model 3, they have managed to design an EV that is better than most (if not all) other cars in its class and most importantly, Tesla managed to make it very appealing - one that is bound to make owners proud to own.

Wind back 20 years and it was perfectly fine for a green car or EV to look special or different and for it to come with a host of limitations because at the time it was good enough just being clean and efficient. The problem with Tesla's competition (including all other EVs and Hybrids) is that somewhere along the line, they forgot that eventually, green cars will also have to look and perform very well in order to appeal to the next generation car buyer - that is the only way to guarantee long-term takeup. In contrast, Tesla's mission was that from day one, you can see why fans consider them very special.
 
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I test drove the BMW i3 and really liked it. However, it's just too expensive. I would have considered buying it years ago for half price, say fully loaded for around $28k coz I view it as an upgrade to the Honda Civic but not on par with the Accord.

Too late now when I can get a long range sport-luxury EV, in the near future, for even less after tax incentives! That's why the TM3 is such a big deal.
 
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I "test drove" my friends BMW i3 and I did like it. In a Scion Cube kind of way :)
The interior felt very cheap to me though. The driving position is too high in my opinion. Tesla has no "fear" of BMW , the i3, i8 or 330i though. EaglesPDX knows this as well. He is just trying to illicit a reaction. Ignore him. I would like to see better EV's on the road other than Tesla. I believe Mercedes Benz is planning on a release in the next 2 years of a Tesla competitor.
By the way Tesla again won the award for "Highest quality vehicle industry wide" by Strategic Vision
 
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Ford Fusion Energi has equal emissions and MPGe to a Tesla 70. Prius has done more to cut oil use and emissions than Tesla will do in 10 years with their most ambitious sales plan.

Hmmm... a little back-of-the-virtual-napkin figuring...

Toyota has sold ~5.7mil Prius' worldwide since their introduction in 1997. They started with an mpg in the low 40's, and now in the low 50's. So say an avg of 48 or so.

Compact cars back then got in the mid-20's, and now the high 20's (not a lot better, honestly). So say maybe 27 mpg on average.

So the Prius has sold 5.7mil cars, each shaving ~20MPG on average in 20 years.

Tesla in the next 10 years (you didn't say "will have sold", so you are speaking future tense) will, if they hit their 500K/yr targets starting in 2018 and ramp up from there, have sold at least 4.25million cars, and it could very well match or exceed Toyota's 5.7mil if the ramp is anything like they have seen with sales thus far.

Each of those cars saves far more oil and emissions that a Prius would have.

So I'd have to say you prognostication seems suspect.

The Teslerati here are more like TeslaTrumper's saying all kinds of crazy things to justify an untenable position that the Tesla is the ONLY EV plug in one should buy.
.

Funny, I've not seen that quote... particularly in this thread.
 
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The Priui still burn gasoline. Just because they save some vs. non-hybrids, doesn't put them in the same league as a full BEV. That's like saying I saved $100 buying this watch on sale for $200. No, you didn't SAVE $100, you still spent $200.
I hear the same thing all the time from every girl I've ever dated...

A typical conversation:
- I bought it because it was on sale...
Do you need it?
- No
Do you even want it?
- No
Sigh o_O

This equates to

Why did you buy the hybrid?
- Because I'm saving the environment
But it still uses gas and puts out pollution...
- Yeah, but less than other people...
So, you are simply killing people more slowly?!
- I guess...? :confused:
{ facepalm }

Air Pollution Kills More Than 5 Million People Every Year
 
I hear the same thing all the time from every girl I've ever dated...

A typical conversation:
- I bought it because it was on sale...
Do you need it?
- No
Do you even want it?
- No
Sigh o_O

This equates to

Why did you buy the hybrid?
- Because I'm saving the environment
But it still uses gas and puts out pollution...
- Yeah, but less than other people...
So, you are simply killing people more slowly?!
- I guess...? :confused:
{ facepalm }

Air Pollution Kills More Than 5 Million People Every Year

So you're implying that reducing your carbon footprint is meaningless if you're not reducing it to zero. Gotcha. :)