The M3 terrifies BMW

[zenmaster]

May I politely suggest that it is greatly exceeded by the amount of denial, misinformation and outright nonsense about Tesla outside these forums.

Not sure where. Even on the most popular BMW site "bimmerpost", *most* of the comments about the Tesla and Model 3 have been positive.

I would include any suggestion that 3-series sales are not being significantly impacted by the Model 3 launch in at least the "denial" and "nonsense" categories.

Of course they have and will probably be impacted, but nothing posted in this thread claiming to show an indication of this impact has actually done so. It is as if that would be an irrelevant detail. Also what is "significant"?

 

[scaesare]

The biggest question to be asked in this thread is whether we're the Teslerati or the Teslarati. I mean, I don't drive a Tesle, does anyone else?

Excellent question.

Which confers greater status?

 

[SΞXY P100D]

But without the hybrids NOW we don't make the goal of 80% reduction in GHG by 2050

Can't argue with you on this one. I do own a hybrid myself.

 

[sitter_k]

I know a lot of it is dependant on location, but $1,200 to have a 240 volt outlet installed seems excessive. The vast majority of posts on it that I've seen put it in the neighborhood of a few hundred dollars. Yes, some people may need service upgrades or additonal panels or some other additional service, but for those people I would hope that they would take that into account.


Can you provide a source for that 10-20% recomendation? According to the 2014 census the median household income was a bit over $53,000 dollars, using the 10-20% figure the median car purchased would be 5,000 - $10,000. Forget your 25% figure, your well into the 91st percentile of income to even be able to afford a $35,000 car. Yes, people often spend more on things than they should, but there's no way half the country is spending that much more on a car than what your 10-20% says they can afford.

Perhaps the 10-20% is for payments? That sounds much better, and then it makes the car much more affordable to everyone.


How?

This! Looking for the rebuttal from Eaglespdx.
According to KBB
Record New-Car Transaction Prices Reported In December 2015, According To Kelley Blue Book
Average car price is in and around $34k. Model 3 is very much in line with this budget.

 

[ccutrer]

Men with ... guns? For polluting? For all our sakes, I hope this is hyperbole. A hefty fine would be sufficient, and would actually help with cleaning up.

Depends on how much you're polluting, and how much you're resisting paying that fine. And who the EPA sends. If it's your friendly local beat cop, or even an FBI agent - yes, they're carrying guns. Not big scary guns, but they're definitely packing. Government works - ultimately - on the threat of force, and them having (at least the façade of) a monopoly on said force. Everything less than that is less forceful - and contingent on your compliance to the lesser force before escalation.

 

[EinSV]

Not sure where. Even on the most popular BMW site "bimmerpost", *most* of the comments about the Tesla and Model 3 have been positive.

I haven't had any reason to look at those forums but that is good to hear. I expect most people who are into cars and the driving experience would have a positive reaction to what Tesla is doing. I was referring to some in the mainstream media and a small army of trolls who seem determined to paint a negative picture of Tesla.

Of course they have and will probably be impacted, but nothing posted in this thread claiming to show an indication of this impact has actually done so. It is as if that would be an irrelevant detail. Also what is "significant"?

I love cars. I owned a Porsche which I recently sold and currently drive an Audi Q5. My son owns a BMW 5-series. We will be replacing these cars with three Model 3s (or possibly two Model 3s and one Model Y).

I don't think there is any question that BMW's target demographic of people interested in the "Ultimate Driving Machine" are moving to Tesla in large numbers because it offers a superior driving experience (some of us are also excited to have the environmental benefits of EVs).

@RubberToe has created several interesting threads comparing the growth of the X/S/3 with competitors' sales. Correlation does not imply causation but the BMW ad that is the subject of this thread shows that at least some within BMW understand what is happening and are worried enough about a significant impact that they have invested in a multimillion dollar advertising campaign to fight it.

Frankly, I would be happier if BMW decided to embrace what is a superior technology (EV) and invest in it instead of spending money on a pathetic advertising campaign promoting a ridiculous car nobody wants. So far that is not happening at a level that IMO is anywhere close to what it should be, which I think is a strategic mistake that BMW will regret.

 

[dsvick]

I'm just going to put this here...

View attachment 190420

Hopefully whoever created this will keep updating it. The next 18 months ought to be interesting to watch.

Given a set of data, a pencil, and some graph paper you can make almost any data conform to your point of view. Throw in a politician and you can make it say anything, even the complete opposite of what it really means

 

[SageBrush]

Given a set of data, a pencil, and some graph paper you can make almost any data conform to your point of view. Throw in a politician and you can make it say anything, even the complete opposite of what it really means

I notice you hedge your statement with 'almost,' but I'd love to see your graph of car sales that supports the assertion that the TM3 is helping BMW

 

[xav-]

I doubt BMW is scared (for now). M3 is all on paper. Lots of hype.. But the car is just not there. That $35k starting price, the mass production in 2018 etc. All is based on very very optimistic assumptions.

Let just not be overly optimistic and remind ourselves that there is still a long way to go.

 

[Neohippy]

Seems like most Tesla owners are ok with growing pains and problems with their MS and MX. I read a article which applys to myself. The target of the 35k buyer is not so tolerant of their car being in the shop constantly. This is because this demographic of buyer works long hours and sometimes only has one car to drive. If the M3 has constant problems the 1st year of release and other companies such as BMW build a reliable car Tesla might be in trouble. I'm in love with the Tesla brand but I plan on spending 55k on a M3 which will be my 1st new car purchase. I will be very upset if it is constantly in the shop.

 

[dsvick]

I notice you hedge your statement with 'almost,' but I'd love to see your graph of car sales that supports the assertion that the TM3 is helping BMW

You didn't read all of my post, to do what you want is the part where I need a politician

 

[Model 3]

and other companies such as BMW build a reliable car ...

Sorry, not enough with just a reliable car. It has to be a reliable mid-to-long range BEV with a good build out working fast charging network. So, no problem for Tesla

On a more serious side: I did not put down a deposit and sit down to wait 2+ years just to "get a car", but to get the car I have been waiting for 20+ years to finely be produced. Yes, like everbody else I hope it is reliable without any problems, but I'm willing to give the fresh car maker that stated up just to make my dream come true some leeway on their new model if they have some problems in the start, as long as they do their best to fix those problems in an adequate manner. If they manage to expand the service centers like they have said they will, I'm confident that they are prepared to do just that.

 

[SΞXY P100D]

...The target of the 35k buyer is not so tolerant of their car being in the shop constantly. This is because this demographic of buyer works long hours and sometimes only has one car to drive...

Umm... wouldn't Tesla offer a loaner vehicle if your car will be in the shop for an extended period of time? This should be a non-issue even at the Model 3's price point.

 

[Neohippy]

Umm... wouldn't Tesla offer a loaner vehicle if your car will be in the shop for an extended period of time? This should be a non-issue even at the Model 3's price point.

Yes they will as I have been told. What scares me is they will produce and sell many of the M3 and the service centers are already backed up. I would ha w to drive 20 miles to get my car repaired then have to pick it up. So a loaner is one thing. I work 50-60hrs a week sometimes 12hr days. I want to spend my free time relaxing or with my family. Not getting my brand new car fixed constantly. I'm so excited for the M3 to be released and love the driving experience Tesla offers. I can handle a few hiccups. Constant problems will ruin my experience

 

[Neohippy]

I own a Acura Nsx. I love it because it looks like a Ferrari but has Honda reliability. I don't mind spending a lot of money on a good car. It just stings when it's in the shop and not being enjoyed.

 

[Saghost]

Seems like most Tesla owners are ok with growing pains and problems with their MS and MX. I read a article which applys to myself. The target of the 35k buyer is not so tolerant of their car being in the shop constantly. This is because this demographic of buyer works long hours and sometimes only has one car to drive. If the M3 has constant problems the 1st year of release and other companies such as BMW build a reliable car Tesla might be in trouble. I'm in love with the Tesla brand but I plan on spending 55k on a M3 which will be my 1st new car purchase. I will be very upset if it is constantly in the shop.

Forums always magnify the apparent extent of problems - I don't think most owners of either car are putting up with lots of problems or giving Tesla slack.

I also don't think that the 400k people who rushed to put down money on a car they haven't seen and don't have specs for are the typical $35k car buyers who will be so critical of the car - but those 400k people will be most of the model 3 sales for a couple years.

 

[Neohippy]

I also don't think that the 400k people who rushed to put down money on a cat they haven't seen and don't have specs for are the typical $35k car buyers who will be so critical of the car - but those 400k people will be most of the model 3 sales for a couple years.

I would bet a good portion of the 400k people don't realize the issues. I understood the growing pains. After going to test drive a MS I saw the entire service center flooded with MX getting warranty work done. Even spoke to a few owners who loved the cars. I understood the FWD were complex and has issues. Having ac lines crossed and other issues to me are not normal. I thought like most of the general public Tesla had learned on the MS. I'm a gambling man so I will take my chances on the M3 and trust Elon when he said he learned from his mistakes. Don't assume all 400k reservation holders are very educated on the problems

 

[Alketi]

I assume you saw the news from yesterday that Tesla hired the the Apple's Reliability Director to lead their own efforts..

Tesla snags Apple’s Reliability Director to scale up production with iPhone-like dependability

 

[dsvick]

... people who rushed to put down money on a cat ....

I tried that once, he just played with the coins and spent the bills on catnip...

I would bet a good portion of the 400k people don't realize the issues. I understood the growing pains. After going to test drive a MS I saw the entire service center flooded with MX getting warranty work done. Even spoke to a few owners who loved the cars. I understood the FWD were complex and has issues. Having ac lines crossed and other issues to me are not normal. I thought like most of the general public Tesla had learned on the MS. I'm a gambling man so I will take my chances on the M3 and trust Elon when he said he learned from his mistakes. Don't assume all 400k reservation holders are very educated on the problems

Of course not all of us do, however I bet more than you seem to think are aware of the potential for issues. I think your both right though, the M3 buyers will be less tolerant than the MS and MX buyers, but will still be much more tolerant than most car buyers. I would hope that most of the M3 reservation holders know that while they may not be "early adoptors" they are certainly on the leading edge of everyone else.

 

[Saghost]

I tried that once, he just played with the coins and spent the bills on catnip...


Of course not all of us do, however I bet more than you seem to think are aware of the potential for issues. I think your both right though, the M3 buyers will be less tolerant than the MS and MX buyers, but will still be much more tolerant than most car buyers. I would hope that most of the M3 reservation holders know that while they may not be "early adoptors" they are certainly on the leading edge of everyone else.

You caught that just barely in time for me to edit.

For some reason my Swype keyboard strongly prefers cat over car, and I mostly manage to catch it and fix it. Mostly. :-/