SΞXY P100D
$ Trillion Musk
Just command your car to drive itself to your workplace once it's fixed. Same thing with the loaner car by commanding it to drive back to the dealership. BERRY NAAASSSS huh?
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The M3 terrifies BMW
- Thread starter JoeCoolMan24
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- Model 3
Chopr147
Active Member
Like some have mentioned, the service centers are overwhelmed these days. I really hope the M3 is an example of what Tesla has learned as a young upstart with the S and X issues. If not, additional SC's may not be enough and they could get bogged down in their own sh*&^
Tesla fan or not people will only take so much inconvenience . One other thing: IK Tesla gives loaners for the S and X but will they continue that with the 3?
Tesla fan or not people will only take so much inconvenience . One other thing: IK Tesla gives loaners for the S and X but will they continue that with the 3?
The 35k buyer is going to be just fine, because there will be at least a couple hundred thousand cars built and in service before their car is built. The "maxed out" Model 3s will be delivered first, and those are going to people in similar income brackets to the Model S and X, or to Tesla and SpaceX employees. Assuming your sweeping generalizations have any merit, the long-hour-working-one-car-owning base model buyer should be getting the benefit of early adopter mindset individuals.
What!?! You're kidding right? Have you been stuck on an island for the past 5 months? Tesla gave test drives of the car in pretty much production condition at the unveiling of it....check em out, they're on YouTube. And the website says $35,000, this is beyond paper now.
CuriousG
Active Member
Unless Tesla Service Centers are going to stock up on their inventory of loaner cars, most likely you'll get an Enterprise loaner.
Plus:
(1) "Pencils down" confirmed.
(2) On August 1, Electrek reported that Tesla had been ordering enough parts over the previous two months for 300 Model 3 prototypes (presumably they won't make that many prototypes as some of the parts will be used for testing). Tesla Model 3: Tesla is ordering enough parts for a fleet of ~300 prototypes
So far so good, it would seem ....
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Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
It's not an assumption, it is an observation. General Motors has limited their exposure to Production and potential Sales of plug-in vehicles to the level at which they would ordinarily CANCEL a project. That indeed telegraphs their full intention to cancel both, any, and all plug-ins the instant they don't need to offer them anymore. They haven't even bothered to offer the bare minimal 1% of their best selling passenger cars, Malibu and Cruze, as either fully electric or plug-in hybrid. Likely because they do not want to associate plugging in with their cash cow cars in any way.
That is why I give some credit to Ford for at the very least offering a fully electric version of their best selling car in the world, the Focus. Ford also offers the Fusion Energi and C-MAX Energi as plug-ins. Note that there is no fully electric version of BMW's best selling vehicle in the US and worldwide -- the 3-Series. And the piteous 330e has only 70% the fully electric range of the Fusion Energi that costs thousands less. During the month of July 2016, the 330e only sold 14.7% as many units as the i3. Maybe BMW should rethink their strategy?
Dispute my position if you wish. But these are valid conclusions given the evidence. Once again, as your Friendly Neighborhood Over-the-Top Optimistic Tesla Motors Certified Apologist Fanboy...? I reserve the right to be just that pessimistic of the minimal efforts and continual delay tactics employed by traditional automobile manufacturers and call them out for the [BOLSHEVIK] they are: a desperate attempt to make it seem as if they are sincerely attempting to look to the future with fuel efficient new technology vehicles when in fact that is the very last thing on their minds.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Every automobile company that sells vehicles in the Great State of California, and presumably other CARB States, must offer at least 1% of their sales in that territory as zero emissions vehicles. If they do not, there are fines to be paid for non-compliance. There may be some exemptions for those firms that sell a minimal number of cars.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
"I can't spell 'VW', but I got a Porsche!" -- Julie Brown, 'Cause I'm a Blonde'
"I just want to say that being chosen as this month's Miss August is like, a compliment I'll remember for as long as I can. Right now I'm a freshman in my fourth year at UCLA, but my goal is to become a veterinarian, 'cause I love children."
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Precisely. This is why those traditional automobile manufacturers that DO make zero emissions cars lobbied the California Air Resources Board (CARB) to give them additional benefits. That is, the Zero Emissions Vehicles (ZEV) Credits they receive in CARB States are multiplied by a specific factor based upon the type of qualifying vehicle they provide. Those ZEV Credits, which are offered because of emissions at the State level, can be converted to modify their Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) rating at the Federal level. I think the minimal level of modification is a factor of five. So, each high MPGe vehicle offered in California or other CARB States is counted as at least five cars on their CAFE rating. This explains why Toyota was motivated to offer so few of the Mirai -- 1,000 units worldwide per year, for three years -- with maybe half of those going to California Customers. Hydrogen Fuel Cell Electric Vehicles currently get the highest amount of ZEV Credits per vehicle in CARB States under current regulations. They only have to build about 1% of their total offerings as zero emissions, and those can be applied as at least 5% against their fuel economy ratings, and that grows even higher dependent upon the ZEV Credit ratings per each. Yet Naysayers want to claim it is Tesla Motors that is 'gaming the system'...
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
I may have mentioned before... Take note that BMW stopped counting the 4-Series as part of the 3-Series Sales Totals as of June 2015, when this precipitous dropoff began.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
The problem isn't that the Model ☰ 'is just not here'. The problem for BMW is that their 'independent franchised dealerships' are complaining that when they contact longtime, loyal Customers, the ones who have bought a new car from them like clockwork every three years for fifteen years, to ask if they'd like to come in to see their latest cars...? They have been told those folks are, "Waiting for the NEW Tesla..." It really hurts when your cold calls to known entities, valued customers, guaranteed leads, are shut down by the simple query, "You guys have anything fully electric in the lineup?"
That was bad enough three years ago, when they weren't coming in for the 7-Series (they still aren't)... and those cars took several weeks longer to sell per unit. Because everyone and their Grandmother's Sister Sarah preferred to wait three months for a car they ordered over the internet instead of driving away in something that was in the showroom TODAY. It is way worse when they aren't coming in to get the car that keeps the lights on. And they are willing to wait up to two years for it. That's a long time for someone to not darken your door, especially when all evidence shows that once you go electric, you never go back to ICE.
It isn't like when someone decides not to get a car from PENSKE BMW... Because they got something from PENSKE Acura... or PENSKE Lexus instead. Because there is no PENSKE Tesla -- ANYWHERE.
I'm sure the 'independent franchised dealerships' all demanded that BMW 'DO something!' So they did. And this advertising campaign is it.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
So why is it still going down. If they changed their reporting methods, there should be a cliff, and then the slope continuing as it was before.
The plan (according to Elon) is to send someone in your replacement car, to pick up your car, and then return it when done.
Thank you kindly
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
My "favorite" is the "flex-fuel" vehicle, which is one huge government subsidy for domestic SUV production since it keeps the local manufacturers fairly CAFE compliant.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Oh, I agree! It is going down, continually, because of the Tesla Model ☰. Just pointing out the slope of the graph might not be quite so harsh if 4-Series Sales were added to 3-Series. It would be nice to see them listed both separately and combined on the chart. Because if there is a similar precipitous drop since June 2015 on both, without a corresponding increase in other BMW sales (as some have suggested) it will support the notion that the Model ☰ is already killing 3-Series sales.
Red Sage
The Cybernetic Samurai
Yeah... Their argument has been that since low emissions and zero emissions vehicles tend to have higher fuel economy ratings ANYWAY... And they cost SO MUCH to build... And no one wants them so they sell poorly... And all those longhaired, barefoot, hippie, treehuggers 'out there in California' force them to offer them anyway... They'd might as well get a bonus on their CAFE rating for all their hard work. So, that's why they get a huge pile of ZEV Credits for selling/offering only a handful of cars, then apply those toward their entire fleet of gas guzzlers to lower their CAFE rating.
GM's efforts may look like foot dragging, but the Volt offers more practical electrification than any car not made by Tesla, far preferable to 80-mile BEV's or 18 mile PHEV's. The Volt has been around 2 years longer than Model S, and the Bolt will be here a year before Model 3. The case for GM:Red Sage said:
How GM Beat Tesla to the First True Mass-Market Electric Car
I don't necessarily think the Bolt will succeed any more than the Volt has:
1) For pure electrics the supercharger network is a key advantage for Tesla.
2) Tesla has established brand cachet over the past 4 years and many potential customers are still prejudiced against GM.
3) Even though there is a faction within GM (starting with Bob Lutz back in 2008 or so) which has developed these cars, I can't argue there hasn't been foot dragging on the marketing and dealership ends to keep sales levels modest.
Yes they should. I expect all the German companies to be producing BEV's in a big way during the 2020's. The attraction of BEV's should be much greater in Europe than here:Red Sage said:
1) More aggressive government policy to reduce greenhouse gases, part of which is
2) Sky high gas taxes, so the consumer has a far greater economic saving by switching from gas to electric.
3) Compact driving distances should mean less range anxiety
Deja vu. In a 60+ page EpicSki Forum thread about the Vail/Talisker/Park City lawsuit in 2014 he was rehashing every bit as much as here. And he repeatedly called former Park City CEO John Cumming "John Cummings" despite several posters trying to correct that.CuriousG said:
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Unless 4-Series had growth in the same period that 3-series was dropping. It's possible that the 4-series is cannibalizing sales of the 3. I'm not suggesting that is the case, because I don't know the answer. But your option isn't the only one.
And not to pick on your post, but I missed this plan of Elon's. This used to be how things were done, but they (mostly) discontinued that service a while back. It was called Valet service, and it was awesome. I'll miss it, but while it makes sense for a small luxury company, it makes a lot less sense for a larger mainstream one.
Swe
They are conclusions based on your observations of previous action.
Which are neither:
A) Something GM "noted" themselves
B) Necessarily their future "intention"
Both things you asserted in your statement.
Now we have a more accurate picture of what the facts are. Thanks.
