The New Chevy Bolt vs Tesla Model 3: Which is better EV?

[Jeff N]

Where the Bolt falls down though is the lack of fast charging infrastructure. The infrastructure that is there is extremely slow vs. Tesla's Supercharger. GM has openly said they have no intention of building a charging network whatsoever. No fast charging, no road trips for me. No road trips, I ain't buying it.

A base trim Model 3, with its slightly smaller than 60 kWh pack, will add 140 highway miles of charge slower than the maximum S90D rates that people usually toss around.

A Bolt EV at a 125A "50 kW" charger might take an extra 20-30 minutes. So, maybe 30-ish minutes for the Model 3 and maybe 55-ish minutes on the Bolt EV. If you are sitting down at a restaurant to eat during charging then the perceptual time difference won't matter all that much. The Bolt might be able to do better on a 200A CCS charger but GM hasn't disclosed anything about that yet.

Although I'd like to see GM contribute meaningfully to bootstrapping a highway-oriented charging infrastructure it ultimately doesn't matter who builds it. VW will apparently have lots of mandated money to spend on EV charging infrastructure under their Dieselgate consent decree and they have the business motivation to build a competitive Bolt-compatible CCS Supercharger-like network with that cash.

 

[Chopr147]

Quote from article:"The Chevy Bolt's body style and design was not made to compete with Tesla model 3. However, It can actually copete head-on with the Tesla Model 3 or any Tesla. One reason why the Bolt can take a Tesla head-on is because of its range and price. General Motors also have the advantage of experience (with OnStar) which makes themexperts in vehicle connectivity."
The author must not have ever driven a Tesla if she thinks it can "copete" with any Tesla. Add the grammatical errors and downright false information, the author cannot be taken seriously. It can compete with the 3 on price and range I guess. But what do you do in a Bolt when the range is used up? In a 3 you can charge up in 30 minutes and then drive right by that Bolt on the side of the road waiting for the tow.
Connectivity experts? GM? Laughable. I had Onstar for 3 years and finally cancelled it because it was useless. So I paid over $300 each year for what? Knowing where my car is if stolen, (who steals Yukon's? ) unlock if needed and uh...........That's it. No-one needs the turn by turn directions anymore. OK Onstar can shut the car off if stolen but again, theft is a rare event today and the cost is over $300 a year.

 

[McRat]

Quote from article:"The Chevy Bolt's body style and design was not made to compete with Tesla model 3. However, It can actually copete head-on with the Tesla Model 3 or any Tesla. One reason why the Bolt can take a Tesla head-on is because of its range and price. General Motors also have the advantage of experience (with OnStar) which makes themexperts in vehicle connectivity."
The author must not have ever driven a Tesla if she thinks it can "copete" with any Tesla. Add the grammatical errors and downright false information, the author cannot be taken seriously. It can compete with the 3 on price and range I guess. But what do you do in a Bolt when the range is used up? In a 3 you can charge up in 30 minutes and then drive right by that Bolt on the side of the road waiting for the tow.
Connectivity experts? GM? Laughable. I had Onstar for 3 years and finally cancelled it because it was useless. So I paid over $300 each year for what? Knowing where my car is if stolen, (who steals Yukon's? ) unlock if needed and uh...........That's it. No-one needs the turn by turn directions anymore. OK Onstar can shut the car off if stolen but again, theft is a rare event today and the cost is over $300 a year.

Onstar does a lot. You probably should have read the directions.

It's a backup phone system that is fully voice command and hand's free. It will call for an ambulance/cops with a single push of button. It will send rescue if you are dying and cannot speak or push a button if you crash. It will tell you where your kids are at if one is using the car. It will tell you what the tire pressures are and fuel/range level. It will tell you what any trouble code means. It will lock your car when you forget. It will unlock your car. It will precondition the interior. The Human navigation will find stuff without knowing exactly where you want to go, and can even give you suggestions of places you haven't heard of. The nav goes right into the HUD without lifting a finger.

I'm probably forgetting things, but I won't buy a family car anymore without it. Sure, it's a luxury feature, but I'm not so poor that I can't afford better safety equipment for my family.

 

[McRat]

And, the Bolt does not have to beat the Tesla ###. It has to first beat the ICE Prius (PHEV Priuses are all committed to doing standup comedy focusing on making fun of hybrids), then target the Camry.

It doesn't have to compete with the BMW 3xx, MB CLS's, stripper Lexuses, etc. This will save $$$ per car by not having to pipe in engine sounds through the stereo, or have 20"+ wheel options, or baby seal leather coated steering wheels.

For EV's to gain significant market share, they need to replace the ICE cars that sell well, not the ones that sell in small numbers to committed fanboys.

 

[Topher]

Every sentence in that second paragraph is not true.

The first paragraph is not doing well in the truth department either. Matching similar 'announcements', the Bolt had a prelimnary announcement, then the Model ≡ did, the Bolt then had a final announcement, and we are waiting for the model ≡'s. And the bias is blatant "Telsa is an expensive car" no mention that the Bolt is MORE expensive.

I think GM will try to capitalize on this advantage as much as they can.

Not be making lots of cars apparently. That is what we really need them to do.

Thank you kindly.

 

[slowjim]

I'm a Model ≡ reservation holder and a LEAF owner. I don't think we know enough about the Model ≡ (yet) to pick one over the other. I think the LEAF is great car and fun to drive, only things I wish mine had is more range, cruise control (I have the S), and better looks (in that order). The Bolt will have all three (no I don't think the Bolt can compare with the M≡ in looks). I'll wait until after the 2nd reveal to make a choice, but the Bolt has a few things going for it that could make me decide to cancel my reservation:

1. Better chance of getting the federal incentive
2. Better chance of getting Washington State's sales tax incentive (about 2.8k)
3. I Prefer a hatchback
4. Don't have to go as far to buy or have serviced
5. Will have better 0-30 and 0-60 than the LEAF (the LEAF is quick enough for my needs)
6. Don't have to wait as long to get it
7. I won't feel as bad when it gets scratched or dinged

The supercharging network isn't a need for me, I'll use my ICE on the few times a year I drive more than the Bolt's range. I have a feeling the Model ≡ 2nd reveal will make me forget about the Bolt. I'm really hoping everything goes well for Tesla and Model ≡ production. I haven't driven a Tesla yet but it's number 1 on my bucket list.

​

 

[ccutrer]

The supercharging network isn't a need for me, I'll use my ICE on the few times a year I drive more than the Bolt's range.

Do you have other uses for an ICE? When we got our X, we planned to keep our previous family car for a few months just in case the X had build issues. After a month of sitting in the driveway, and not wanting to touch it with a 10 foot pole cause the Tesla is so much better, I realized how incredibly stupid it was to have a car sitting in the driveway doing nothing, while paying insurance on it, and it depreciating even more. Even if it's only worth a thousand dollars or so, might selling it and unlocking that value be better used elsewhere, and then simply renting an ICE for those rare (even rarer if you choose a Model 3) occasions when you need one?

 

[Red Sage]

And, the Bolt does not have to beat the Tesla ###. It has to first beat the ICE Prius (PHEV Priuses are all committed to doing standup comedy focusing on making fun of hybrids), then target the Camry.

It doesn't have to compete with the BMW 3xx, MB CLS's, stripper Lexuses, etc. This will save $$$ per car by not having to pipe in engine sounds through the stereo, or have 20"+ wheel options, or baby seal leather coated steering wheels.

For EV's to gain significant market share, they need to replace the ICE cars that sell well, not the ones that sell in small numbers to committed fanboys.

2016 may end up being the first full calendar year since 2004 that the Prius sells less than 100,000 units to US new car buyers. I think it is because Toyota went just a fistful of chest hair too far in making the sucker ugly (while attempting to make it futuristic?) this time around. But I predict it will likely take at least three years for the BOLT to have a total of 100,000 units sold here. Without similar Production volume...? No. The BOLT is in no way a competitor to either Prius or Camry. Heh. The Prius actually outsold the Malibu in 2007. The LEAF managed to find 30,200 US buyers in 2014. So that shows the BOLT may be able to match that sales rate. But there is no way in [HECK] that GM will allow it to be produced to rival Prius, CRUZE, or MALIBU in sales. Ever.

Nissan LEAF Sales Figures - GOOD CAR BAD CAR

Chevrolet Malibu Sales Figures - GOOD CAR BAD CAR

Chevrolet Cruze Sales Figures - GOOD CAR BAD CAR

Toyota Prius Sales Figures - GOOD CAR BAD CAR

 

[CitizenKane]

Anybody who understands Teslas mission is applauding this. It seems in only a few years there will be a lot of fully electric cars to choose from. This is only because of Tesla and it is really quite an amazing achievement by Tesla and Musk. The base question - which car is better - is not really that important to me, but yes, I would choose the Tesla. But I still hope the Bolt will be a great success.

 

[slowjim]

Do you have other uses for an ICE? When we got our X, we planned to keep our previous family car for a few months just in case the X had build issues. After a month of sitting in the driveway, and not wanting to touch it with a 10 foot pole cause the Tesla is so much better, I realized how incredibly stupid it was to have a car sitting in the driveway doing nothing, while paying insurance on it, and it depreciating even more. Even if it's only worth a thousand dollars or so, might selling it and unlocking that value be better used elsewhere, and then simply renting an ICE for those rare (even rarer if you choose a Model 3) occasions when you need one?

I've thought about it but the only way we could go to being a one vehicle (BEV) family would be if the BEV was an X. Unfortunately an X isn't a possibility for me unless I get some really bad news at my next physical.

 

[ccutrer]

I've thought about it but the only way we could go to being a one vehicle (BEV) family would be if the BEV was an X. Unfortunately an X isn't a possibility for me unless I get some really bad news at my next physical.

Okay, so a second primary vehicle, not a vehicle you're keeping as just a backup. Makes sense.

I still have "my" Ford Focus that I use to commute, while the wife runs the kids around in the X. I hate it (in comparison to a Tesla), but there just isn't enough Tesla to go around... yet.

 

[S'toon]

Is the interior comfy? Is it roomy? Are the ergos good? Control placement and actuation?

Yes, the Volt has a shiity interior compared to the CT6 Platinum, but so does everything BMW and Mercedes sell at any price.

But the Volt interior is comfy, IMO, better than our CTS-V.

Do you want jewelry or intuitive controls and comfort? Truth? Most BMW folk don't care about the ergo or operational features. It's got to have that Euro look. The seat could be a bed of nails as long as it looks like a Recaro.

Test drivers from a dozen mags failed to say the comfort and controls of the Bolts were shiity. Some did say they looked like ass (ie - does not look Euro).

Funny thing is, I loathe the interior of BMW. All those GD buttons. Oi vey, talk about incredibly awkward to use. Then the video I saw of the "user interface," oi! The most awkward unintuitive thing I've seen in my life. Just give me a Tesla screen.

Is the interior comfy? Is it roomy? Are the ergos good? Control placement and actuation?

Yes, the Volt has a shiity interior compared to the CT6 Platinum, but so does everything BMW and Mercedes sell at any price.

But the Volt interior is comfy, IMO, better than our CTS-V.

Do you want jewelry or intuitive controls and comfort? Truth? Most BMW folk don't care about the ergo or operational features. It's got to have that Euro look. The seat could be a bed of nails as long as it looks like a Recaro.

Test drivers from a dozen mags failed to say the comfort and controls of the Bolts were shiity. Some did say they looked like ass (ie - does not look Euro).

You said it, not me. BMW folk don't care about care about the ergo or operational features. That's why they make the most awkward unusable user interface and buttons in the world.

I want practical in a car.

 

[diamond.g]

Is the interior comfy? Is it roomy? Are the ergos good? Control placement and actuation?

Yes, the Volt has a shiity interior compared to the CT6 Platinum, but so does everything BMW and Mercedes sell at any price.

But the Volt interior is comfy, IMO, better than our CTS-V.

Do you want jewelry or intuitive controls and comfort? Truth? Most BMW folk don't care about the ergo or operational features. It's got to have that Euro look. The seat could be a bed of nails as long as it looks like a Recaro.

Test drivers from a dozen mags failed to say the comfort and controls of the Bolts were shiity. Some did say they looked like ass (ie - does not look Euro).

Mercedes-Maybach says hi.

 

[stopcrazypp]

And, the Bolt does not have to beat the Tesla ###. It has to first beat the ICE Prius (PHEV Priuses are all committed to doing standup comedy focusing on making fun of hybrids), then target the Camry.

It doesn't have to compete with the BMW 3xx, MB CLS's, stripper Lexuses, etc. This will save $$$ per car by not having to pipe in engine sounds through the stereo, or have 20"+ wheel options, or baby seal leather coated steering wheels.

For EV's to gain significant market share, they need to replace the ICE cars that sell well, not the ones that sell in small numbers to committed fanboys.

I actually come to the exact opposite conclusion with the same data. IMO, Tesla's approach is actually what will take EVs out of the niche, while GM's approach (which in this price category mirrors all other traditional manufacturers: start with an economy car market and add an EV premium to it) will regulate it to continue to be a niche.

Selling in the premium market allows Tesla to be perceptively "equal" to ICE cars in the same price range. You'll see comparisons with entry level compact premium sedans, which do sell in large numbers at similar prices ~$35k (3 series sells 100-140k per year in USA and around 500k worldwide).

Perceptively Bolt is an EV version of the $20-25k Trax/Encore, with a $10-17k "EV premium" tacked on top. Some even think it's a Honda Fit ($15k) alternative because of the styling (although Bolt is larger if you compare dimensions). This is essentially the same approach the Leaf took and it's being handily outsold by the Model S, despite the Model S costing 2-3x the price.

If the goal is more EVs sold, I would not say targeting an economy car market right now will get you there. The EV battery premium is still too big to do that. If the "EV premium" is brought to well under $5k (as with the hybrid premium, which is only a couple thousand), then that approach might work. That gets you to a car that is in the $20-25k range and can directly compete with economy cars.

 

[N5329K]

I don't think GM is targeting the economy market. While there are good people at GM who want to see the Bolt succeed, I doubt there's much of a corporate ladder available to them. They're off on their own, like the Saturn folks. In the end, I think what GM did with the Bolt was to use the same bland, "me-too" design language they have used for other cars that are not important to them. The Model 3 is central to Tesla's mission. The Bolt is peripheral to GM's mission, at best. Tesla is all about changing what we all want to drive. GM is all about pushing 20th-century tin at maximum margins. Tesla want to build cars that aren't just as good as their ICE counterparts, but better. GM is happy with good enough to say "See? We did something."
Looking at what they came up with in the Bolt, it shows.
Robin

 

[Jeff N]

Selling in the premium market allows Tesla to be perceptively "equal" to ICE cars in the same price range. You'll see comparisons with entry level compact premium sedans, which do sell in large numbers at similar prices ~$35k ......

Perceptively Bolt is an EV version of the $20-25k Trax/Encore, with a $10-17k "EV premium" tacked on top......This is essentially the same approach the Leaf took and it's being handily outsold by the Model S, despite the Model S costing 2-3x the price.

I think there are more important reasons why the Model S outsells the LEAF at a much higher price. Among them are driving range (at least 2.5x farther), aesthetic appearance, acceleration performance, and fast charging.

The Bolt EV addresses the range and to a large extent the performance issues. It also substantially addresses the aesthetic issue -- the Bolt isn't a beauty queen but is also not a weirdmobile like the LEAF.

Finally, the Bolt partially shares the LEAF's fast charging weakness but with a bigger battery it charges faster, doesn't ramp-down nearly as soon or as much, is selling in an environment with better coastal DC charging availability than in 2011-2015, and may well be capable of faster DC charging than GM has revealed so far.

People regularly comment that Tesla's ICE-competitive offerings do not match the same interior design comfort and quality at the same price point. Perhaps it's a stretch, but the Bolt EV has similar interior space dimensions and much faster performance (0-60 6.5 seconds vs. 8.5 seconds) as a Lexus NX crossover at roughly the same $35-37 thousand price point.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I think there are more important reasons why the Model S outsells the LEAF at a much higher price. Among them are driving range (at least 2.5x farther), aesthetic appearance, acceleration performance, and fast charging.

The Bolt EV addresses the range and to a large extent the performance issues. It also substantially addresses the aesthetic issue -- the Bolt isn't a beauty queen but is also not a weirdmobile like the LEAF.

Finally, the Bolt partially shares the LEAF's fast charging weakness but with a bigger battery it charges faster, doesn't ramp-down nearly as soon or as much, is selling in an environment with better coastal DC charging availability than in 2011-2015, and may well be capable of faster DC charging than GM has revealed so far.

Yes, the Bolt most definitely addresses most of the weak points of the Leaf. For $7k more, you are getting a lot more for your money than the Leaf. I have no doubt it will easily outsell the Leaf.

However, is that enough to get it well beyond the ~30k US sales that individual plug-in models have peaked at, to the next level (100k+ annual sales like hybrids)? I don't think it is. Personally, I think Tesla will get there with their approach with the Model 3. Which is the exact opposite conclusion as @McRat given the same two approaches.

It kind of goes back to my point. If you are comparing inside the niche of the "EV market," (as EV fans do) then the Bolt presents excellent value. But compared to the overall ICE market, it's not on par (there is still an "EV premium"). For Tesla that EV premium is seen as perceptively very little to non-existent because it is viewed as a premium car. The reality might be different, but perception is critical in the car market (which is why premium cars are so popular, even though objectively they are a poor value).

 

[Jeff N]

For $7k more, you are getting a lot more for your money than the Leaf.

The 2016 LEAF SV (base trim with 30 kWh battery) is $35,000. It is equivalent to a $37,500 base trim Bolt EV except it includes a DC charging port. So, the Bolt has 2x the battery and 2.2x the range for about $3,300 more (including DC charging in Bolt).

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

The 2016 LEAF SV (base trim with 30 kWh battery) is $35,000. It is equivalent to a $37,500 base trim Bolt EV except it includes a DC charging port. So, the Bolt has 2x the battery and 2.2x the range for about $3,300 more (including DC charging in Bolt).

The SV also has the hybrid heater. We don't yet know how it'll compare with the Bolt's heating system.

 

[Red Sage]

I actually come to the exact opposite conclusion with the same data. IMO, Tesla's approach is actually what will take EVs out of the niche, while GM's approach (which in this price category mirrors all other traditional manufacturers: start with an economy car market and add an EV premium to it) will regulate it to continue to be a niche.

Selling in the premium market allows Tesla to be perceptively "equal" to ICE cars in the same price range. You'll see comparisons with entry level compact premium sedans, which do sell in large numbers at similar prices ~$35k (3 series sells 100-140k per year in USA and around 500k worldwide).

Perceptively Bolt is an EV version of the $20-25k Trax/Encore, with a $10-17k "EV premium" tacked on top. Some even think it's a Honda Fit ($15k) alternative because of the styling (although Bolt is larger if you compare dimensions). This is essentially the same approach the Leaf took and it's being handily outsold by the Model S, despite the Model S costing 2-3x the price.

If the goal is more EVs sold, I would not say targeting an economy car market right now will get you there. The EV battery premium is still too big to do that. If the "EV premium" is brought to well under $5k (as with the hybrid premium, which is only a couple thousand), then that approach might work. That gets you to a car that is in the $20-25k range and can directly compete with economy cars.

Agreed. The trend of having a 100% premium to go EV over an ICE version of a vehicle is not going to work. Unless your intention is to sell as few of the EVs as possible. Even the ratios for plug-in hybrid versions of some cars is pretty close to a 100% premium as well. And that doesn't stop the 'independent franchised dealerships' from adding an up-charge over and above the MSRP if they like. They believe it is their right to do so, and convince themselves that they are performing a 'service' to Consumers by gouging them for more dough.