The shudder problem: Current status (end of February 2020)

[Harvey Danger]

All racing launches are done in VERY LOW. The weight transfer and acceleration of course makes the suspension seperate

Ah I get it! Wasn't even clear to me the car was in motion. Camera had a fast shutter speed I guess.

I want to try this someday. I have zero experience but there is some kind of race track nearby that seems like the place to try it. I'm sure it will be a fun experience even if Insane+ is slow compared to Ludicrous+ ...

 

[n1h1]

@rob4448585

Correct. Immediate loss. At first I thought it was because I was on my 20" Helix wheels. I finally put the 22"s back on and tried again (like for like testing) and it ran the same thing on the 22"s as the 20"s.... SUPER unhappy about this.

That sucks. Have you started getting shudder again? You could try and get the latest fix applied, and see if those do better, and maybe bug them about the perf drop you saw last time, see if they can remove any special stopgaps they applied, since this is supposed to be the real fix now.

 

[rob4448585]

@rob4448585


That sucks. Have you started getting shudder again? You could try and get the latest fix applied, and see if those do better, and maybe bug them about the perf drop you saw last time, see if they can remove any special stopgaps they applied, since this is supposed to be the real fix now.

No shudder anymore. I will reach out to my local guys and see what they think. I doubt they know if they flashed the car for a slower quartermile time. But I suppose it doesn't hurt to ask. I wish they gave me the option cause I wouldn't have wanted the hit on performance

 

[X-RAY]

Just heard from my service centre in Europe.
Apparently a new fix has come available. Parts available this June/July. SC offered to replace now and then again with the new part. (it's been the third recurrence now for my 2018 X) . I was tempted, but decided to wait for the new part, since I do not ever race and as a share owner I am not for wasting service resources. Sure hope this new fix will finally fix the problem.

 

[Rolaids]

Just reporting that I was one of the first cars (2020 Model X LR) to get the new fix in Columbus, OH. As I had posted earlier, I got the first replacements of the old half shafts at around 11k miles. The old replacements started shuddering after a few thousand miles. I decided to hold out for the new parts and these were replaced on June 2nd with about 22k miles on car.

So far these new parts are very smooth!!! Below is the parts list from invoice:

Correction: Inspect Vehicle, Replace Front Halfshafts (Raven Front Drive Unit)
Parts Replaced or Added
Part Quantity
HALFSHAFT
ASSEMBLY, FRONT,
RIGHT HAND(1420119-
00-B)
1.00
HALFSHAFT
ASSEMBLY, FRONT,
LEFT HAND(1420113-
00-B)
1.00
NUT HF M24x1.5 [8.8]
ZnFl-W(1020297-00-A)
2.00
WASHER SAFETY
M24x39(1020296-00-B)
2.00

 

[dudeabides]

Just reporting that I was one of the first cars (2020 Model X LR) to get the new fix in Columbus, OH. As I had posted earlier, I got the first replacements of the old half shafts at around 11k miles. The old replacements started shuddering after a few thousand miles. I decided to hold out for the new parts and these were replaced on June 2nd with about 22k miles on car.

So far these new parts are very smooth!!! Below is the parts list from invoice:

Correction: Inspect Vehicle, Replace Front Halfshafts (Raven Front Drive Unit)
Parts Replaced or Added
Part Quantity
HALFSHAFT
ASSEMBLY, FRONT,
RIGHT HAND(1420119-
00-B)
1.00
HALFSHAFT
ASSEMBLY, FRONT,
LEFT HAND(1420113-
00-B)
1.00
NUT HF M24x1.5 [8.8]
ZnFl-W(1020297-00-A)
2.00
WASHER SAFETY
M24x39(1020296-00-B)
2.00

I also have a 2020 MX LR+, scheduled to get the new half-shafts later in June. Hoping its a permanent fix … or at least long lasting.

 

[Maxpilot]

How do you reproduce this shudder to check if you have it? Full throttle?

 

[n1h1]

How do you reproduce this shudder to check if you have it? Full throttle?

Two things to check

1. At a complete stop (say stoplight). Floor it on whatever the max your car has (ludicrous for perf models, sport for LR) - do you hear a very noticeable noise
2. when you hit cruising speed, trigger something that requires rapid accell. E.g. uphill on an entrance ramp, or accell to pass etc

 

[mxnym]

do you hear a very noticeable noise

Does the new TSB say anything about noise? I thought only the shaking was eligible for repair. I had the original TSB done and have had noise during even moderate acceleration at higher speeds ever since, but the problematic shaking hasn't come back.

 

[n1h1]

Does the new TSB say anything about noise? I thought only the shaking was eligible for repair. I had the original TSB done and have had noise during even moderate acceleration at higher speeds ever since, but the problematic shaking hasn't come back.

Yeah they call it an NVH issue. The noise comes from spalling on the raceway inside the Rzeppa style CV joint, so when the balls travel over the damaged area at high speeds it vibrates the entire thing creating noise and when bad enough shaking.

 

[n1h1]

Does the new TSB say anything about noise? I thought only the shaking was eligible for repair. I had the original TSB done and have had noise during even moderate acceleration at higher speeds ever since, but the problematic shaking hasn't come back.

Yeah they call it an NVH issue. The noise comes from spalling on the raceway inside the Rzeppa style CV joint, so when the balls travel over the damaged area at high speeds it vibrates the entire thing creating noise and when bad enough shaking.

Also wrt to moderate accel, people usually report noticing this at around 30-40mph or so, as they are accelerating into it.

 

[mxnym]

Also wrt to moderate accel, people usually report noticing this at around 30-40mph or so, as they are accelerating into it.

I guess I should have looked up what NVH meant when I originally saw the new TSB. To be sure, as I don't remember, did the old TSB also reference NVH? I ask because I feel like there were lots of people saying the service center wouldn't fix I without vibration on the old TSB. Also, wrt to, I think the t stands for to. I only mention this because that actually threw me off, read moderate as a verb instead of an adjective and took me a minute to figure out what you meant. However, yeah, it starts somewhere between 30 and 40 MPH and then goes away only when acceleration is reduced sufficiently.

 

[n1h1]

I guess I should have looked up what NVH meant when I originally saw the new TSB. To be sure, as I don't remember, did the old TSB also reference NVH? I ask because I feel like there were lots of people saying the service center wouldn't fix I without vibration on the old TSB. Also, wrt to, I think the t stands for to. I only mention this because that actually threw me off, read moderate as a verb instead of an adjective and took me a minute to figure out what you meant. However, yeah, it starts somewhere between 30 and 40 MPH and then goes away only when acceleration is reduced sufficiently.

I vaguely remember it did say that as well. Lately I have been seeing folks denied (pre second TSB) who even had intense shaking. It seems they have known for quite some time that the shaft replacements were not a permanent fix and eventually going to fail, and so were probably trying to contain cost and limit replacements.

Keep in mind an audible vibration noise *is* vibration, whether your steering wheel violently shakes or not, since the vibration is what clearly causes the noise. If they turn you away because your steering wheel doesn’t violently shake hard enough thats just stalling on their part. Over time it will get worse you end up with other things failing (clevis Mount etc).

 

[Richbot]

Old fix parts:
CLVS ASSY,DBL ISO,LHS MTR MNT,SDU-F(1055366-00-H)
HALFSHAFT, FR RH, MODEL X(1027115-00-D)
HALFSHAFT, FR LH, MODEL X(1027111-00-D)

New fix parts:

HALFSHAFT
ASSEMBLY, FRONT,
RIGHT HAND
(1420119-00-B)
HALFSHAFT

ASSEMBLY, FRONT,
LEFT HAND
(1420113-00-B)

Anybody spotted a new clevis mount part or do we think the "fix" is "in" the half shaft?

 

[n1h1]

Old fix parts:
CLVS ASSY,DBL ISO,LHS MTR MNT,SDU-F(1055366-00-H)
HALFSHAFT, FR RH, MODEL X(1027115-00-D)
HALFSHAFT, FR LH, MODEL X(1027111-00-D)

New fix parts:

HALFSHAFT
ASSEMBLY, FRONT,
RIGHT HAND
(1420119-00-B)
HALFSHAFT

ASSEMBLY, FRONT,
LEFT HAND
(1420113-00-B)

Anybody spotted a new clevis mount part or do we think the "fix" is "in" the half shaft?

The source of the vibration is definitely the shaft. I think previously they just reinforced the Clevis to better absorb the shock generated when the shafts start to have the issue. Hopefully, the updated shafts resolve the issue (fingers crossed)

 

[Richbot]

I started getting this intermittently, especially if I use any of the higher suspension settings in a parking or gravel situation, it's quite noticeable for a while and then settles down to a mild hum at 30-40mph in low or very low where I usually am, so I added this to my appointment to address the passenger side falcon wing door latch dissassembling itself NUMMI engineers would not be pleased to see this kind of stuff coming out of their old Matrix/Vibe plant lol. We'll see if they do anything with it. 50/50 chance they decide it's not quite bad enough to get it done, it's definitely not holy-crap bad, but it's there,, now at 8300 miles. Considering it's warm out and how people report it's much worse in winter I'd rather address it now before something else craps out. I wasn't going to have them look at it until a new part number was out in the wild, so, thanks @Rolaids for posting those new parts

Would be pretty sweet to not have to worry about occasionally lifting the car for a better view/egress/etc., what with ti being a feature you're supposed to be able to you know, use

Also, if the fix is good enough, they might have some margin to uncork it a bit more at low speed

 

[VLTWGGN]

Does anyone know what % of Raven XPs have this issue? I'm in the market for a Model X and am thinking it's a better bet to pocket 40-50k now and pick up a 2019 XP instead of an X Plaid.

 

[n1h1]

Now that model s

Does anyone know what % of Raven XPs have this issue?

It seems widespread.

I'm in the market for a Model X and am thinking it's a better bet to pocket 40-50k now and pick up a 2019 XP instead of an X Plaid.

Now that the model s plaid is out, and I can see entries in the parts catalog, it does look like the parts they are using in the plaid S are identical to those in the TSB for the fix for all raven model s'. (420113-00-B 1420119-00-B for both). Assuming that's accurate, it looks like they did indeed develop these new parts as part of the S & X refresh and retrofitted them. So either option (new or used) you have access to the same new part that supposedly resolves the issue. So IMO probably not worth basing your decision on that.

I just had these installed today and so far so good!

IMO the plaid looks mind-blowingly amazing, and the difference in value is there, save the uncertainty of the yoke. If I was coming in the market new I would go that route. Upgrading for me so soon (I have a 2020) is hard for me to justify, but so tempting! Either way, you will be happy, IMO; you can't really make a wrong decision on this.

 

[n1h1]

I guess I should have looked up what NVH meant when I originally saw the new TSB. To be sure, as I don't remember, did the old TSB also reference NVH? I ask because I feel like there were lots of people saying the service center wouldn't fix I without vibration on the old TSB. Also, wrt to, I think the t stands for to. I only mention this because that actually threw me off, read moderate as a verb instead of an adjective and took me a minute to figure out what you meant. However, yeah, it starts somewhere between 30 and 40 MPH and then goes away only when acceleration is reduced sufficiently.

Just to add to my last reply on this point. My SC appointment went awesome, even though it was for some reason was acting way more subtle than normal when I got there (heat maybe?). In any case the tech confirmed hearing it and feeling it in the pedal and they performed the TSB part replacements. They were super nice. I also got a M3 loaner.

 

[VLTWGGN]

Now that model s


It seems widespread.


Now that the model s plaid is out, and I can see entries in the parts catalog, it does look like the parts they are using in the plaid S are identical to those in the TSB for the fix for all raven model s'. (420113-00-B 1420119-00-B for both). Assuming that's accurate, it looks like they did indeed develop these new parts as part of the S & X refresh and retrofitted them. So either option (new or used) you have access to the same new part that supposedly resolves the issue. So IMO probably not worth basing your decision on that.

I just had these installed today and so far so good!

IMO the plaid looks mind-blowingly amazing, and the difference in value is there, save the uncertainty of the yoke. If I was coming in the market new I would go that route. Upgrading for me so soon (I have a 2020) is hard for me to justify, but so tempting! Either way, you will be happy, IMO; you can't really make a wrong decision on this.

Thanks for the thoughtful information! Yes I have an X Plaid on order and given the ridiculous used prices and lack of inventory, I may just go with that.