There will be NO HW4 upgrade for HW3 owners

[argon2018]

Only after the lawsuit (which as noted did not reference those claims at all, only the ones in the manual) and it was over 5 years / 60k miles (not the full warranty).
Nissan upgrades US Leaf warranties, will 'restore' batteries that lose too much charge | Engadget

So if it has to be written, why did Trevor Milton of Nikola who staged the who thing for investors arrested for fraud? I don't think it is as simple as that when you continuously say that FSD will happen by the end of next year repeatedly on investor channels, investor days, and autonomy day...

 

[enemji]

HW4 cameras, according to the spy pics, will not physically fit in the areas of the 3/Y where they would need to be retrofit ... one shining example of this is the B pillar will have to be wider ... Also, the additional cameras and hd radar have nowhere to go, I guess duck tape them to the hood ... at any rate, if this is the case, Tesla will fight this to the end ...

It seems you have never retrofitted a backup camera, forward vision camera and a GPS unit to a car from 2000 and earlier.

This is all to easy and totally doable. It is only a matter of whether Tesla wants to do it or not.

 

[stopcrazypp]

So if it has to be written, why did Trevor Milton of Nikola who staged the who thing for investors arrested for fraud? I don't think it is as simple as that when you continuously say that FSD will happen by the end of next year repeatedly on investor channels, investor days, and autonomy day...

You didn't read/understand my argument at all:

Personally I make a distinction between what Elon says to media vs what Tesla actually has on their order page, but not everyone does here. Legally I don't think there would be much consequences for what Elon says in terms of contractual obligations to owners, but what they have on the order page would matter.

I'm not saying he might not be in other legal trouble (I explicitly pointed out false advertising and a SEC securities fraud investigation as possible legal trouble he might get into), just that it won't be seen as a contract to deliver a product to owners.
There will be NO HW4 upgrade for HW3 owners

 

[argon2018]

Tesla FSD Hardware 4.0 Revealed: More Cameras, New Placements

www.notateslaapp.com

Here is the example of why the wide the angle in the front is needed

 

[argon2018]

Just paying back FSD is not enough. Per Musk in 2019, its an appreciating asset, it will become part of the Tesla ridesharing network and make you passive income, this was what they showcased in 2019

here is the whole video still on Youtube channel from Tesla

this video is from THREE years ago lol

I don't whats the point of arguing with people here anyways, nothing we say here changes anything anyways

 

[argon2018]

I guess we now know why Musk wants to build the most brutal litigation department..

 

[argon2018]

I can see Tesla arguing that they thought it was legitimately possible and other autonomous vehicle experts being brought in to say that no, clearly it was not possible at least by the time 2019 rolled around.

But Tesla told the Cali DMV back in 2019-2020, behind closed doors, that FSD would be released to the wider fleet as a Level 2 ADAS. It was Level 2, it will stay Level 2, and anything further will be new iterative processes.


This has been the plan for a long long time.

They can say that to Cali DMV but not investors on a day to day matter.. Cali DMV is not the only DMV in the country. and is certainly not the court

 

[argon2018]

With enough pressure on Tesla by the Tesla owners groups, a HW4 processor on a HW3-form-factor (fewer sensors however) could be made for retrofitting.

Just don't get you hopes up for HW4 bringing full-autonomy.

even if they put the new FSD 2 computer that is not that impressive after all, they are putting additional higher resolution cameras at different locations and radar back that requires more processing power. Those are the real deal, otherwise, the new computer is pointless as the processing power for our 2017-2018 cameras 1.2 megapixels will just be useless

 

[argon2018]

That might be true in theory, but it only matters if they actually evolve the software. At some point HW3 releases will have little to no focus, with only maintenance support, and my main worry with HW4 (and the new sensor suite) is that this point may be quite soon. Once we have an initial park-seek implementation, I'm not sure why they'd spend much effort on legacy hardware.

Exactly especially putting back additional cameras and radar, they need to start writing codes for that. They have spent 5 years now on HW3, doubt they will spend another couple of years on it. 10.69 was supposed to be magical. Now we think 11.3 is gonna be some kind of magic because they are combing stacks..

 

[argon2018]

How many years do you think that will take? Or are you ready to wait indefinitely?


I think everyone considers it a failure including Musk, in terms of being Full Self Driving. I'm confident they can turn that around in the 5+ year time frame. 2 years for Level 3.

Musk strategy keep promising until either customers buy new cars, your their car will be out of warranty and too costly to maintain forcing them to buy a new one. Meanwhile steal their money for FSD

 

[argon2018]

Apple or Steve Jobs never sold a product that was not even there. That's the difference.

 

[DL_Mike]

There is no possible way to retrofit HW4 to current cars period. Greentheonly on Twitter has confirmed this and he has always been right. Whether you pay 10K or free of charge it's not happening.

Which is why Tesla will incur a liability of some sort in courts and arbitration. Not being able to retrofit just cost them in refunds and maybe that's a calculation they're willing to take.

 

[Zedbox]

Which is why Tesla will incur a liability of some sort in courts and arbitration. Not being able to retrofit just cost them in refunds and maybe that's a calculation they're willing to take

What if you only got a tesla for the ability to fsd and now it will never happen?

 

[DanCar]

What if you only got a tesla for the ability to fsd and now it will never happen?

Tesla should refund the total price of the vehicle.

 

[stopcrazypp]

What if you only got a tesla for the ability to fsd and now it will never happen?

Good luck arguing that in court. The same argument could have been made in AP for those lawsuits (about the delay in feature restoration), but Tesla only paid a fraction of the cost of the option (not a fraction of the cost of the whole vehicle). It is not reasonable to assume the rest of the car has no value.

 

[Dewg]

Tesla should refund the total price of the vehicle.

Given Tesla's cash on hand, which is higher than most auto makers, I think that solution would bankrupt the company. That would cause a massive burden on the customer base who have no problems with their car, but now have issues getting parts and service, and software updates would stop.

I know there are some pissed off, jaded people here, but you wanna screw over the majority to satisfy the complaints of the minority?

That, right there, is why the courts will never destroy Tesla the way some of you want. They may be punished, but never to a degree that hurts the majority of customers.

 

[argon2018]

Tesla should refund the total price of the vehicle.

Wishful thinking. Tesla lawyers will swallow all of us combined.

 

[argon2018]

Given Tesla's cash on hand, which is higher than most auto makers, I think that solution would bankrupt the company. That would cause a massive burden on the customer base who have no problems with their car, but now have issues getting parts and service, and software updates would stop.

I know there are some pissed off, jaded people here, but you wanna screw over the majority to satisfy the complaints of the minority?

That, right there, is why the courts will never destroy Tesla the way some of you want. They may be punished, but never to a degree that hurts the majority of customers.

No one wants to destroy a great company. But Elon Musk has made outrageous claims over and over and even recently from hardware that has not changed since 2018. He needs to be liable for his claims, such as millions of robotaxis in 2019 with the Tesla ridesharing network. That was BS. It's not okay to make false claims when you know new hardware and camera placement are required from at least a year of being a company CEO while selling FSD for such a price.

You have likely invested in Tesla and want to defend it. Elon Musk didn't have to make such claims. Why did he? to sell FSD.

Do you think Elon Musk CEO of the company, didn't know the new camera placements would be needed from a year ago while still making these outrageous claims? you think they just found out yesterday this would be needed to place new cameras at different locations?

Please ponder and stop defending

 

[stopcrazypp]

No one wants to destroy a great company. But Elon Musk has made outrageous claims over and over and even recently from hardware that has not changed since 2018. He needs to be liable for his claims, such as millions of robotaxis in 2019 with the Tesla ridesharing network. That was BS. It's not okay to make false claims when you know new hardware and camera placement are required from at least a year of being a company CEO while selling FSD for such a price.

Well, Elon said they will still deliver FSD with HW3 and HW4 is just going to be better. There will always be better hardware (it's inevitable), the core issue is if they will deliver FSD (whatever that means, whether a door-to-door L2 feature or a L3/L4 feature) with HW3.

You have likely invested in Tesla and want to defend it.

You don't have to invest in Tesla to not want it to fail over FSD lawsuits. If you bought the car and care zero about FSD, you don't necessarily care about if Tesla delivers FSD, you care about if Tesla can continue to service your vehicle (plus run the supercharger network).
Also punishing Elon is not necessarily the same as punishing Tesla as a company. You brought up Nikola and Trevor Milton, and it shows the example. Trevor Milton was convicted, but Nikola is still running as a company.

 

[argon2018]

Well, Elon said they will still deliver FSD with HW3 and HW4 is just going to be better. There will always be better hardware (it's inevitable), the core issue is if they will deliver FSD (whatever that means, whether a door-to-door L2 feature or a L3/L4 feature) with HW3.

You don't have to invest in Tesla to not want it to fail over FSD lawsuits. If you bought the car and care zero about FSD, you don't necessarily care about if Tesla delivers FSD, you care about if Tesla can continue to service your vehicle (plus run the supercharger network).
Also punishing Elon is not necessarily the same as punishing Tesla as a company. You brought up Nikola and Trevor Milton, and it shows the example. Trevor Milton was convicted, but Nikola is still running as a company.

thats not accurate, he claimed that all cars produced in 2019 will be capable of ride-sharing and make money while you sit at home. That's from autonomy day of 2019 and he has not backed down from claims that Tesla cars are an appreciating asset. So this is not about L2 or L3 or L4... He said the car will be making money for you while you sit at home.

No one wants to destroy a company. But one should be liable to for their claims. Don't worry Musk has enough money. Worry about yourself.