eyespii
Member
Just curious why someone WOULDNT opt for eap. IMO it’s the #1 selling point of the car. Only reason I could see not wanting it would be if you don’t really drive much I guess.
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Just curious why someone WOULDNT opt for eap. IMO it’s the #1 selling point of the car. Only reason I could see not wanting it would be if you don’t really drive much I guess.
It's a Level 2 driver aid today which cannot be safely implemented (as the recent fatal accident in CA sadly illustrates). It requires more mental effort than driving yourself in order to drive safely on auto-pilot, i.e. supervise the system so it doesn't kill you or cause a non-fatal accident. Note that I underlined "safely", because it is possible to pay no attention at all, wedge an orange in a steering wheen, bag of patatos on the driver seat and nap in the back seat while doing 75mph on the highway, and actually survive. As the AP gets better, it ironically becomes more dangerous:Just curious why someone WOULDNT opt for eap. IMO it’s the #1 selling point of the car. Only reason I could see not wanting it would be if you don’t really drive much I guess.
Just curious why someone WOULDNT opt for eap. IMO it’s the #1 selling point of the car. Only reason I could see not wanting it would be if you don’t really drive much I guess.
Now with my 3 to arrive next month, I'm concerned about my wife and kids using AP -- which they will only do after I have them watch the above video a few times so they understand its severe limitations and potential death trap (too strong? -- probably -- but he did ask).
Herein lies the trap - you think you can watch a video and know it. I know very well and actually understand the sources of the drawbacks of the AP, including a bunch engineering details that no video is going to impart on a non-engineer. That said, I found that even though I know I should be paying attention and how severe the consequences can be, I have caught myself paying much less attention that I should be, including one close call. This is why I simply decided not use it and definitely would not want my family to use it either. I don't want to pay for progress of AP with my of my family. Imagine if AP got so good you'd only have to intervene once every 6 months. Guaranteed the driver stops paying attention. Do you really want to gamble with your life every 6 months?
It requires more mental effort than driving yourself in order to drive safely on auto-pilot, i.e. supervise the system so it doesn't kill you or cause a non-fatal accident
But I think giving a general proclamation that Autopilot is unsafe or requires more mental effort to be equally safe in all people is misleading an irresponsible. If it doesn't work for you, that's fine, and you can say as much. But not everybody has your same experiences with it.
Couldn't disagree more. I've done many 400+ mile road trips with AS on almost the entire time(barring taking exits and parking and such) and remain constantly vigilant, with hands on the wheel and eyes up.
That minutia of keeping in the lane is what keeps you from hitting a lane divider. If you offload it to AP and are not dealing with it yourself, then you are the mercy of that lane keeping system while you're paying attention 200ft ahead.Being free to pay attention to the more high-level dynamics of the road/cars around me, rather than having to do that plus constantly dealing with the minutia of keeping centered in the lane [...]
If your brain is less drained that means it's doing less, meaning you are paying less attention. I agree that if you could offload the lane keeping reliably to AP then you could claim less effort required, however you cannot because it is not 100% reliable. It's like driving with a student driver who in addition to being inexperience, occasionally has epileptic seizures. Most of the time you don't need to do anything, but have to be more vigilant than if you were just driving yourself.Being free to pay attention to the more high-level dynamics of the road/cars around me, rather than having to do that plus constantly dealing with the minutia of keeping centered in the lane for hours straight makes the whole driving task much easier, less draining and allows me to pay more attention to the safety risks that are there.
I linked to an article above why Waymo (Google) decided Level 2/3 cannot be safely implemented. That article talks about studies done by them and some universities that support their theory. So my personal experiences (first person here) match the studies with other people agree (I can't use first person here as I wasn't participating in the studies, just looking at results).People react differently to things, so I've been careful here to try to keep everything in 1st person. But I think giving a general proclamation that Autopilot is unsafe or requires more mental effort to be equally safe in all people is misleading an irresponsible. If it doesn't work for you, that's fine, and you can say as much. But not everybody has your same experiences with it.
I think that's a bit unfair to @whitex. Can you really say that you have never caught yourself paying less attention than you should be while on AP? After only a week I found that happening to me -- and it scared me. If it's never happen to you, you're a more disciplined person than me, and probably most others using AP.
In my view, the fact that a momentary lapse of attention can kill you while on AP makes me appreciate that @whitex has made his comments more objective than subjective. If they don't apply to you, fine. But to say his comments are limited to him, and as such should be said to be limited to him (and thus in first person), is not a fair objection, at least in my view.
That minutia of keeping in the lane is what keeps you from hitting a lane divider. If you offload it to AP and are not dealing with it yourself, then you are the mercy of that lane keeping system while you're paying attention 200ft ahead
That is the part that I would disagree with completely. When driving, your brain handles a of things automatically, such as when you walk, you're not constantly telling yourself "left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot..." and I'm sure a lot of times simply don't remember how you walked somewhere, but you obviously did. Many of times I've arrived at my car trip destination having little recollection of the drive there - the brain has a built-in auto-pilot. The problem with AP engaged is that our brains disengage completely so a lapse in attention is MORE dangerous on AP than while driving yourself because it takes precious time for the brain to re-engage.Not never, no. But then I also can't say that I've never caught myself paying less attention than I should while manually driving either. Such momentary lapses are, fortunately, much less likely to be disastrous with AS engaged.
That is the part that I would disagree with completely. When driving, your brain handles a of things automatically, such as when you walk, you're not constantly telling yourself "left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot..." and I'm sure a lot of times simply don't remember how you walked somewhere, but you obviously did. Many of times I've arrived at my car trip destination having little recollection of the drive there - the brain has a built-in auto-pilot. The problem with AP engaged is that our brains disengage completely so a lapse in attention is MORE dangerous on AP than while driving yourself because it takes precious time for the brain to re-engage.
Each time I read a reply I'm persuaded until I read the rebuttal.
I remember when seat-belts were mandated and my grandfather said he'd rather be thrown from a crash than die in one. But it didn't take him long to buckle up -- because of the potential fine. I wonder if AP is the same and I'm being like my grandfather? People still die today in crashes belted in -- when they'd otherwise be thrown clear -- but far more are saved wearing them. Same with AP?