Thinking About Selling Camaro SS 1LE For a Model 3

[GregD60]

Alright folks, now for the stick in the wheel..

Remind me again why I wouldn't want to do something like this?

View attachment 390939

The S and the 3 have some significant differences.

- The S is much larger and heavier so it doesn't handle like the 3 which is much more nimble
- The steering is rather numb in the S while the 3 has a decent amount of feel through the steering
- The S rides a bit better than the 3
- The P85D is faster than the LR AWD 3, and about the same as the Performance 3
- The 3 has a 20% longer range and is about 20% more efficient on electricity usage
- The S has a fairly conventional interior with a dash and regular heat/AC outlets while the 3 is pretty radically different
- The front and rear passenger seating space is about the same on the two cars
- The 3 feels more airy and roomy due to the interior design
- YMMV, but I think the seats in the 3 are a little more comfortable than the seats in the S
- The trunk in the S is significantly larger, and being a hatchback, the cargo space is huge when the rear seats are folded down; the 3 is good, but the S is amazing in this regard
- The 3 has more nooks and crannies, storage spaces, and cup holders than the S; the S is kind of limited in this regard
- The sound system in the 3 sounds a bit better than the one in the S
- The S might be a little quieter than the 3, but it's close

I'd say the choice between the P85D Model S and a LR AWD 3 comes down to what your priorities are. If straight line speed is number one, the S is an easy choice. If handling and fun to drive is number one, the 3 is an easy choice. If handling and speed are of roughly equal importance, then the interior design probably becomes the next major decision point. If you prefer a more traditional style, go S; if you want something very different that feels futuristic, go 3. After that, a bunch of other factors come into play, longer warranty with a new car, preferences in style, the extra 20% of range on the 3, the free supercharging on the S, etc.

The S drives like a big luxury car, say something like a Mercedes S class, while the 3 drives like a sport sedan, better than any of the current competition in my opinion. Since I like a sporty, responsive car, the 3 was an easy choice. The low 4 second range to 60 is plenty quick enough for me, the added range and efficiency is nice, and the 3 is much more fun to drive than the S.

This is based on back to back recent experience since I brought my 3 to the Tesla service center for the first time this morning, and they gave me a 2014 S85 as a loaner.

 

[brianman]

I should turn to you all though - would it be better to buy a new M3, or seriously consider a pre-owned P85D? Decisions decisions!

I can't give you the "smart budget" answer on anything. But what I can tell you...

I traded the P85D (upgraded to P85D, i.e. added Ludicrous) for a P100D (came with Ludicrous), and later traded that for a Model 3 Performance. From a motorsports perspective, the only thing the S P100D has over the Model 3 Performance is the first 1/4 mile. The handling -- mechanically and firmware -- on the 3 is much better, which means (as a driver) I'm ahead in the 3 vs. the S early in the first lap, and the S loses its chance to catch up due to more punishing power limiting due to overheating.

There's a lot I love about the S, and some things I miss, but experience on the track (vs. 3) isn't one of them.

 

[SammichLover]

While I think MPPs offering will be useful, it's not the same experience as track mode by a decent margin for a slew of reasons.

For one it won't be making any changes to the cooling system... for another it's simply "turning off" certain traction and stability features- while TM is actively using those features more to improve the cars performance (shifting power between front/rear to add over or understeer as needed for example)

Mostly agree with this, however MPP's Party Box isn't actually "turning off" T/C - S/C either. It is allowing you to to set the slippage to a different target than factory, one of their five targets.

The two key things we know the P has that the Party Box doesn't are the more pro-active cooling, that you mentioned, and the higher regen setting. There is probably also some more aggressive vectoring via using individually activated brake calipers, I haven't followed the exploration of Track Mode vs the D to know how much difference there is there. They way I've seen Tesla describe it there is more but it might actually be just be doing more because of the higher regen capability and potentially the better caliper capability (so some of it might not be there for P-?).

 

[SammichLover]

Alright folks, now for the stick in the wheel..

Remind me again why I wouldn't want to do something like this?

View attachment 390939

1) Used.
2) No $3750 Fed Tax Credit.
3) Do you want more modern interior and nimble, with no discernible drivetrain heating issues if you hammer on it hard, or a big cruiser that sorta does corners but is mostly raw power straight ahead? Lots of very good S vs 3 comparison posts out there that go into detail on this but it basically boils down to that. The Model S is roughly a Cadillac to your current car.

 

[MXWing]

-Dropping a gear to pass someone is so satisfying - it's a 6 speed manual

That someone isn't me. You don't pass me unless I let you.

 

[Zhelko Dimic]

Hi everyone,

First time poster on this board, so I apologize if i'm starting this thread in the wrong place.

In 2014, I bought a brand new Camaro 2SS 1LE from the dealership, and I would be lying if I said I didn't love this beast. However I've also been an avid Tesla supporter and follower and now that the Model 3 is out, I can comfortably say that i'd love to have one. The reason why i'm starting this thread is to ask if I should actually get one, or maybe wait a few more years until the Camaro has ran it's course and the Model 3 has been improved upon.

Below i've compiled a list of notes regarding my current car and my perception of it:

Camaro:
-The LS3 has that amazing V8 noise - I have a retro chambered exhaust setup. I will probably miss this.
-Dropping a gear to pass someone is so satisfying - it's a 6 speed manual
-The MPG is awful, as are the maintenance costs. 4 new tires cost me 1500 a few years ago. I use premium gasoline. New brake pads may be in the near future and the quotes i'm getting for that are stupid pricey.
-Interior is clean and has an overall nice feel, but it's nothing special. I do have a microfiber suede steering wheel & shifter
-It's been an overall solid DD, minus one or two minor things. I get looks and compliments all the time. If you don't know what a Camaro 1LE is, they're pretty unique cars. Not ZL1 unique, but definitely attention grabbing nonetheless. I don't care too much for the attention at this point in my life.

Tesla & Miscellaneous:
What a beautiful car this is. I love the features and selling points, the all-touch display - almost everything about it. If I could i'd get a Model X or S I would, but it's way out of my price range.

I've heard that the Tesla is quiet, smooth, brilliant, but there are still some quality control issues. That shouldn't be a problem however since the warranty is fantastic. The interior looks plain to the extreme, but that too isn't too much of a bother for me. It's oddly satisfying - but I don't know if it's comfortable. I only drive a total of 3 miles per day (to/from work), and some more on the weekend, but once I start going back to the gym it'll probably climb back up to 10 or 11 a day. FOR NOW I wouldn't do the installed wall charger, because i'm going to be selling my condo probably in the next year or two - which makes me think I should wait until the move before selling the Camaro.

Here's the real dilemma I face: I still owe 6k on the Camaro. MSRP was 45 and I got it for 39. I could probably sell it today for maybe 20k (it has 40k miles). The Tesla i'm looking at would have blue paint (1500), Long Range premium Interior (33,950), and i'm still undecided on the wheels. The purchase price ends up being 47,500 "before savings" (whatever that means) which is a bit out of my line - But I really don't want to compromise on performance compared to what I have now. I could probably use some pointers here. I live in AZ so I don't get as many tax breaks as say someone in California.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. I think the fun factor, responsiveness of steering / acceleration, and the price are my biggest points. Thanks all.

BONUS:

What my car looks like now:

My possible future car:
View attachment 389238

Let me answer it this way: I'm selling my Porsche GT4 to buy P3D.

Long range would be almost as satisfying if you put a bit less emphasis on the 0-60 time. It still will be very quick.

My Tesla model S60, 2016, one that is in the high 5s (i.e. 'slow'), in normal driving feels as quick as Porsche 911 Turbo (996) that's been chipped. Why, considering it's heavier and has less power (40% heavier and about 35% less power)? Difference is in immediacy of the torque delivery and wave of flat torque that is very much resembling 911 Turbo delivery, once it spools. On a track of course it's very different, hp wins, but in a normal driving, I'd easily put 1.5x factor to electric power motor in terms of how it feels.

And you need to drive it, not be driven. There is a delay in reaction of ICE engine, that is non-existing with electric. This you feel only as a driver, and is suddenly like moving from cheap and slow point and shoot camera to a high end DSLR, if you remember those times. This immediacy of the torque creates huge difference in perception of the power. I hear that new Tesla switched reluctance motor is a bit more ehem, reluctant to deliver torque surge, so long range AWD may be the way to go, as it has secondary, purely induction motor that is quicker reacting. But no real experience to judge, it's a theory for me.

And lack of noise, while different, doesn't bother me. I do enjoy GT4 wailing down the track, but Tesla is satisfying too.

 

[1LE McQueen]

Time to climb off of Cloud 9. You've all been extremely helpful and i'm thankful for the input you've given me.

So I think I need to take a step back here. Let me just reiterate everything about my situation:

-I have a 2014 Camaro 2SS RS 1LE, 38,000 miles. I don't know how much i'll get for it.. 24, 25 if I play my cards right. Stupid minimum 22. I still owe 6500 on it. I would have 15,000 MINIMUM to put down on a new (or used) Tesla. Right now i'm paying 407 a month, I don't want to go terribly higher than that. Maybe a max of 500 a month, if this is even achievable with the cars i'm looking at. 84 months loan term. My local credit union said if I was to borrow 35,000, I'd be paying around 490 a month. 50,000 and that 490 becomes 700 something. This might be doable.

-There is nothing wrong with my Car. Nada. It's still solid. It's also 5 years old and out of warranty. My financial situation isn't the best either, which is why i'm terrified something expensive could break and it would devalue the car. It's also extremely difficult to find a 1LE like mine, which could work in my favor. This car is my DD.

-I test drove a Model 3 AWD. It was amazing. Originally I was looking at RWD, but you all convinced me to look at AWD. In stock they're about 47, 48 thousand. My local Tesla rep sent me a blue RWD M3 for 39,000, not long range. I'll pass on it. Though for the price, I may come back and reconsider the RWD.

-There is no such thing as CPO Model 3.. yet. But getting an M3 from a Tesla store would be cheaper than ordering a custom one online. I want blue, so I think I'll wait.

-Oh, hold on, now there's used 2015 Model S P85D's for sale around the same price as a AWD M3. Free supercharging? Free 1st gen autopilot? 0 - 60 in 3 seconds? Factory warranty with remaining engine warranty? Now I really have some thinking to do.

-Model 3 might be better anyway, for it's own reasons. Lighter, more nimble, solid handling, sportier, etc.

Tesla wants me to come back in this weekend to test a Model S. They informed me they could flash the software to be like the 2015's so i'd get an idea of how the car is. My car is 4k pounds, I don't know if a 5k pound car will make too much of a difference. I test drove that pig of a Challenger SRT8 a few years ago and it felt like a watercraft. Still close to 800 pounds lighter then a Model S.

Researching everything has been exhausting so perhaps I should allow myself much more time to think it all over. No way in god's name am I making it before the %3 inventory increase so let's scratch that situation.

 

[ohmman]

Researching everything has been exhausting so perhaps I should allow myself much more time to think it all over. No way in god's name am I making it before the %3 inventory increase so let's scratch that situation.

You're doing the right thing by allowing yourself to make a decision unburdened by a pricing deadline. You can actually digest what you've learned and truly think it out. Good luck, however you choose.

 

[hcdavis3]

1) Used.
2) No $3750 Fed Tax Credit.
3) Do you want more modern interior and nimble, with no discernible drivetrain heating issues if you hammer on it hard, or a big cruiser that sorta does corners but is mostly raw power straight ahead? Lots of very good S vs 3 comparison posts out there that go into detail on this but it basically boils down to that. The Model S is roughly a Cadillac to your current car.

Sammich, you’re killing me with your avatar. I’m now perpetually hungry for a Cuban sammich. Please stop the madness

 

[Chancellor32]

Time to climb off of Cloud 9. You've all been extremely helpful and i'm thankful for the input you've given me.

So I think I need to take a step back here. Let me just reiterate everything about my situation:

-I have a 2014 Camaro 2SS RS 1LE, 38,000 miles. I don't know how much i'll get for it.. 24, 25 if I play my cards right. Stupid minimum 22. I still owe 6500 on it. I would have 15,000 MINIMUM to put down on a new (or used) Tesla. Right now i'm paying 407 a month, I don't want to go terribly higher than that. Maybe a max of 500 a month, if this is even achievable with the cars i'm looking at. 84 months loan term. My local credit union said if I was to borrow 35,000, I'd be paying around 490 a month. 50,000 and that 490 becomes 700 something. This might be doable.

-There is nothing wrong with my Car. Nada. It's still solid. It's also 5 years old and out of warranty. My financial situation isn't the best either, which is why i'm terrified something expensive could break and it would devalue the car. It's also extremely difficult to find a 1LE like mine, which could work in my favor. This car is my DD.

-I test drove a Model 3 AWD. It was amazing. Originally I was looking at RWD, but you all convinced me to look at AWD. In stock they're about 47, 48 thousand. My local Tesla rep sent me a blue RWD M3 for 39,000, not long range. I'll pass on it. Though for the price, I may come back and reconsider the RWD.

-There is no such thing as CPO Model 3.. yet. But getting an M3 from a Tesla store would be cheaper than ordering a custom one online. I want blue, so I think I'll wait.

-Oh, hold on, now there's used 2015 Model S P85D's for sale around the same price as a AWD M3. Free supercharging? Free 1st gen autopilot? 0 - 60 in 3 seconds? Factory warranty with remaining engine warranty? Now I really have some thinking to do.

-Model 3 might be better anyway, for it's own reasons. Lighter, more nimble, solid handling, sportier, etc.

Tesla wants me to come back in this weekend to test a Model S. They informed me they could flash the software to be like the 2015's so i'd get an idea of how the car is. My car is 4k pounds, I don't know if a 5k pound car will make too much of a difference. I test drove that pig of a Challenger SRT8 a few years ago and it felt like a watercraft. Still close to 800 pounds lighter then a Model S.

Researching everything has been exhausting so perhaps I should allow myself much more time to think it all over. No way in god's name am I making it before the %3 inventory increase so let's scratch that situation.

as long as you get a Tesla you cant go wrong!

 

[1LE McQueen]

You're doing the right thing by allowing yourself to make a decision unburdened by a pricing deadline. You can actually digest what you've learned and truly think it out. Good luck, however you choose.

Thanks a ton!

as long as you get a Tesla you cant go wrong!

haha, I'm starting to feel this way My Tesla rep thinks i'll like the 3 better so I asked him to keep me informed when a blue, AWD M3 shows up in stock. Course it might not hurt to be patient and wait for a 1 year old CPO either.

 

[destructure00]

Course it might not hurt to be patient and wait for a 1 year old CPO either.

It's not like me at all to discourage someone from spending their own money, but if your financial situation is not the best right now, this is probably the smarter option. You're going to take a depreciation bath on a new car, and you're already close to paying off your existing one.

My excited 30-something advice is YOLO BUY THE DAMN CAR but my rational "dad" advice says to keep what you have for now, try to get it paid off, save the money you would have spent on the car payment, then when you are in a better spot pick up a used one. You should not stretch yourself to the limit over a car. Let someone else take the depreciation hit.

Have you checked into what a new car would do to your insurance premiums?

 

[1LE McQueen]

It's not like me at all to discourage someone from spending their own money, but if your financial situation is not the best right now, this is probably the smarter option. You're going to take a depreciation bath on a new car, and you're already close to paying off your existing one.

My excited 30-something advice is YOLO BUY THE DAMN CAR but my rational "dad" advice says to keep what you have for now, try to get it paid off, save the money you would have spent on the car payment, then when you are in a better spot pick up a used one. You should not stretch yourself to the limit over a car. Let someone else take the depreciation hit.

Have you checked into what a new car would do to your insurance premiums?

LOL - I'm feeling your 30-something self but dammit I can't be too stupid with my money. I bought the Camaro 5 years ago with the intention of keeping it til 100k miles, but a lot changes in 5 years. Thankfully it didn't take too bad of a depreciation hit at all.

I haven't asked insurance yet but i'll plan that out this weekend and see what they say.

 

[destructure00]

I bought the Camaro 5 years ago with the intention of keeping it til 100k miles, but a lot changes in 5 years. Thankfully it didn't take too bad of a depreciation hit at all.

I ordered my BMW in late 2015 with the intention of keeping it for 8-10 years. Got the exact configuration I wanted...color, interior, manual transmission, track handling package, etc, so I hear you on things changing. That's good that depreciation isn't bad in your case...I'll be taking a huge depreciation hit...$57k OTD new and I'm getting $24,400 trade in. I should have done a lease instead of purchase. Oh well, water under the bridge. Nobody really knows what depreciation is going to look like on the 3 yet, I'm really interested to see what happens.

Curious about your insurance. Mine is going up by $700/year over the BMW.

 

[daschtick]

I'm in a similar position - I bought my Focus ST 6 years ago, with the intention of keeping it 10-12 years. This was still the plan up until a month ago when I went with a friend to test drive a Model 3. After that drive, I was completely sold on the car, and have not been able to shake it from my head! I now want one rally bad, but the idea of purchasing a new car for $50k hurts my head. Between selling my car and adding in some cash, I could put down $25k, but I am still not thrilled with the owing $30k, especially when I know that this is nothing more than financing depreciation!

What I SHOULD do is save up another year, then put down $35k, and finance $10k on a USED Model 3 next spring. Without question, that is definitely the right answer. I know within my heart that this is the best way to go about it, but I am struggling to delay purchase on a new one. I can definitely afford the new car now, but I have never spent more than $30k on a car before, and it simply pains me to know that I would be loosing so much on a depreciating asset.

That said, I am planning to hold off as long as I can, but I wouldn't be surprised if I suddenly make the purchase. I agree - It is definitely a game changer. One that I am dying to own.

 

[PDX-JP]

Incorrect my good man, RED is quite obviously, and by overwhelming consensus, the fastest color. Other than that, I 100% agree with you. I actually look forward to my drive TO work every morning now as much as as my drive AWAY from work BECAUSE of my car.

{edited for emphasis}

No way, black with chrome delete is the fastest. The money you save on black pays for the chrome delete. And looks best after you tint the windows. And I’ve always been a red sports car guy.

 

[destructure00]

No way, black with chrome delete is the fastest. The money you save on black pays for the chrome delete. And looks best after you tint the windows. And I’ve always been a red sports car guy.

Negative. Red is fastest. See Doppler effect. Everything is red as it travels away from you, leaving you in the dust. Red shift. White interior contains anti-friction modifier nano molecules that disrupt the space-time continuum, giving an extra 1.21 GIGAWATTS of accelerational centrifuge vector.

 

[SleeperService]

Negative. Red is fastest. See Doppler effect. Everything is red as it travels away from you, leaving you in the dust. Red shift. White interior contains anti-friction modifier nano molecules that disrupt the space-time continuum, giving an extra 1.21 GIGAWATTS of accelerational centrifuge vector.

Obviously concur on the red outside color and the reasoning, but it's the BLACK interior that gives the biggest speed boost, not the white. Ever heard of little things called "Black Holes"? Yeah, they cause LUDICROUS acceleration. Game. Set. Match.

 

[voip-ninja]

Thanks a ton!



haha, I'm starting to feel this way My Tesla rep thinks i'll like the 3 better so I asked him to keep me informed when a blue, AWD M3 shows up in stock. Course it might not hurt to be patient and wait for a 1 year old CPO either.

Tesla doesn't really have a CPO program for these cars yet and no idea if they ever will.

Since you're not in a hurry you can also wait until sometime later this year when Tesla begins to offer leasing which will let you fit the payment into the budget you are allotting for a car.

I didn't pick up on this from your post but you will also need to budget for installation of a 220V outlet to charge the car at home unless you plan on relying on Superchargers exclusively which is a poor idea.

If you can get a 220V outlet installed for a reasonable price then the fuel savings are going to offset a higher payment over time.

My final comment is, if your "financial situation is not good" and you are putting a hard cap on how much of a loan you can take then the smartest thing you can do is to continue driving the car you already have until it is paid off and save up for that next car. Financial discipline might not be much fun in the short run but is oh so satisfying in the long run.

Also, consider used... as in completely secondary market. There are definitely used Model 3s for sale and I would imagine if you are patient you can get a late 2018 build dual motor car sometime this year for around $45,000 or less.

 

[MrMannnilow]

Sorry I've been away with my 30 year old fatherly but not a father advise lol. I test drove my AWD 3 and was immediately sold in the first 30 seconds . For the sake of being reasonable I spent some time in the S they had in the showroom though I would have bought a used 2015 16 S as you posted

Ultimately I still chose the 3 for these reasons
1)imo seats were more comfortable
2) love the "non traditional" interior with the single screen vs the cluttered guages in the S
3)I wanted the latest and greatest tech(both batteries and AP hardware)

Less important
4)closest SC is 30 miles away don't care about lifetime free. But could be useful for those of us that live in a modern city lol
5)sizeidn't need the S because I have my SUV, and if you can get by with your car you'll be happy with how big the 3 is and it's more zippy and fun to throw around
6)old...and imo due for a refresh

I thought about not ordering EAP on mine...and I really thought everyone who would see my car would ask about the self driving. Come to realize no one except 2 people either A)knew it could or B)could even understand how different AP is vs distance cruise in most cars.

My buddy's wife has a new 2018 Highlander and he quickly told me "yeah hers has the same lane keep thing"....then he drove my M3 and changed his tune... No one in the game has the autopilot type functions or quality that Tesla has.

I'm sure I missed other points i wanted to discuss but if you can't even wash your car at your condo can you install a 220v outlet or Tesla wall charger? Maybe HOA would be more open to a wall connector more than one tenant could use but then your hoa fee will go up for all the electrons lol.

Oh yeah one more.. following up on insurance be sure to check that too. I have a couple other cars, 370z and 2014 Infiniti SUV and my model 3 is actually the cheapest to insure....