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Sunlight
Member
Yup JRP3 - an EV will have rads/intakes in the front but I suspect they will be far less cumbersome and space intrusive.
I am certain that our current 'aesthetics' - imagining a car with a long-ish bonnet/hood - have been conditioned and that a shorter nose (with ALL the attendant benefits) will end up looking normal. Already I see long noses as 'ungainly'; unbalanced; wasteful and solely serving a purpose which will no longer exist (housing a huge ICE in the front...) Form follows function....
I think that 2-D pictures and CD images are not truly representative of reality and do not necessarily portray what a vehicle will look like 'in the flesh'.
For me the three crucial aspects of a car design are:- stance; proportions and detailing - the rest is fluff and subservient to these. Stance is improved by having a 'wheel in each corner'; lower height/greater width (not always practical); nicely filled wheelarches; some lower visual 'body weight' and so on.
Proportions are more subjective and open to fashion but any good 'stylist/artist' will know what looks and feels right.
I think detailing is an under-rated aspect. Beautiful lights set in the bodywork exquisitely; neat and classy chromework; jewel-like details; functionally beautiful handles and badges; and so on can make the difference between OK and fabulous on the same basic car architecture. I feel it is often overlooked - there is too much clunky and poor detailing on many cars - especially cheaper ones but that is NO excuse as it takes more effort and style than cost....
I am certain that our current 'aesthetics' - imagining a car with a long-ish bonnet/hood - have been conditioned and that a shorter nose (with ALL the attendant benefits) will end up looking normal. Already I see long noses as 'ungainly'; unbalanced; wasteful and solely serving a purpose which will no longer exist (housing a huge ICE in the front...) Form follows function....
I think that 2-D pictures and CD images are not truly representative of reality and do not necessarily portray what a vehicle will look like 'in the flesh'.
For me the three crucial aspects of a car design are:- stance; proportions and detailing - the rest is fluff and subservient to these. Stance is improved by having a 'wheel in each corner'; lower height/greater width (not always practical); nicely filled wheelarches; some lower visual 'body weight' and so on.
Proportions are more subjective and open to fashion but any good 'stylist/artist' will know what looks and feels right.
I think detailing is an under-rated aspect. Beautiful lights set in the bodywork exquisitely; neat and classy chromework; jewel-like details; functionally beautiful handles and badges; and so on can make the difference between OK and fabulous on the same basic car architecture. I feel it is often overlooked - there is too much clunky and poor detailing on many cars - especially cheaper ones but that is NO excuse as it takes more effort and style than cost....
the new function of the long nose is to take the impact of a crash, so it may be around for a while yet
Sunlight
Member
If Tesla can sail through the crash testing with the MS and all MPVs have to pass the tests, I'd guess that Tesla would have no trouble passing the tests with slightly shorter noses.
The main visual shortening of the nose would be by moving the windshield forward to give more internal space; improve crash safety (less likely to crunch your head on the screen) and better aero.
For me also better visual/proportions balance......
And a further advantage - the sunroof could move forward so it would feel more like a cabriolet with it open!
The main visual shortening of the nose would be by moving the windshield forward to give more internal space; improve crash safety (less likely to crunch your head on the screen) and better aero.
For me also better visual/proportions balance......
And a further advantage - the sunroof could move forward so it would feel more like a cabriolet with it open!
SwedishAdvocate
Active Member
A longer nose will enable a longer section that can be used to decelerate the occupants during a forward crash/collision. The longer the occupants can travel, the lower the g-forces can be during this deceleration. Therefore: The longer the nose is, the safer the car can be. This is basic physics, and there is no way around that.
Anyway...
This whole discussion is pretty meaningless. Tesla will not give the Model 3 poor aesthetics. That would be corporate self-harm. Or even suicide.
MassModel3
Member
As much as I, too, would love the Model 3 to just be a slightly smaller version of the S, Elon has said that this will absolutely not be the case.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Because to maintain the same length to height ration, the headroom would have to be worse than S.
Sunlight
Member
And I believe the M3 will actually be on the 'taller' side (slightly) to limit the complaints about interior space/headroom which is the case with the MS.
The MS was a trailblazer and some compromises were OK/necessary but the M3 will have to have a broader appeal with less compromises. Anyway I notice that taller cars are becoming very popular for endless reasons so a taller M3 would only disappoint those who are expecting a limited appeal 'sportier' look.
Unless of course Tesla have decided to pitch to this more rarified market and accept the smaller market in exchange for that image.....
The MS was a trailblazer and some compromises were OK/necessary but the M3 will have to have a broader appeal with less compromises. Anyway I notice that taller cars are becoming very popular for endless reasons so a taller M3 would only disappoint those who are expecting a limited appeal 'sportier' look.
Unless of course Tesla have decided to pitch to this more rarified market and accept the smaller market in exchange for that image.....
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
Rather than taller, I think Tesla will go with a sedan profile as opposed to the coupe profile of the Model S. The S has a sexier curve in the back, but a sedan profile like 3 series will yield acceptable headroom, while still looking "sporty".
The taller version should be reserved for the CUV built on the same platform.
The taller version should be reserved for the CUV built on the same platform.
Jaff
Active Member
Remember that taste in a vehicles "look" are subjective...BMW 4...boring...Audi 5...major boring...you will never be able to please everyone when designing a mid priced vehicle.
Sunlight
Member
By 'taller' I am thinking 2-3 inches taller than the MS - not CUV/SUV tall...! Minimal drag influence - may even improve the drag coefficient if carefully detailed aerodynamically.
As Jaff points out, there are so many responses to designs - people 'love' some designs I find heavy-handed and visa versa.
In which case it would be worthwhile to play to the EV's advantages rather than just pitching for an 'uncontentious' and traditional design. Once the public see that the car is fundamentally better - more internal space; better ride; safer; more aerodynamic - it will sell through virtues rather than 'looks' only.
But it had better not be ugly!!
As Jaff points out, there are so many responses to designs - people 'love' some designs I find heavy-handed and visa versa.
In which case it would be worthwhile to play to the EV's advantages rather than just pitching for an 'uncontentious' and traditional design. Once the public see that the car is fundamentally better - more internal space; better ride; safer; more aerodynamic - it will sell through virtues rather than 'looks' only.
But it had better not be ugly!!
Elon just confirmed that the Model 3 will be a sedan starting production in 2 years. It requires fully operational Gigafactory. Other body variants may come after that. Elon Musk on Twitter:
MassModel3
Member
So to be at the front of the delivery line we need to put our reservations in EARLY. Then it's a year-and-a-half wait for delivery? Expected? Yes. But soon we'll know how the early S and X adopters felt all that time. That may be to be the longest year-and-a-half of my life!
Elon Musk @elonmusk 45m45 minutes ago
Model 3, our smaller and lower cost sedan will start production in about 2 years. Fully operational Gigafactory needed.
Elon Musk @elonmusk 40m40 minutes ago
@elonmusk $35k price, unveil in March, preorders start then.
Not at all. Most BMW's and Audi's are nice looking cars but they are all pretty much boring and generic looking, no exciting curves or anything.
Cars like these
Are undeniably sexy, gorgeous, beautiful, sleek and I know of no one that would not happily drive one of them for the rest of their lives. I've never seen or heard a person say an AM isn't an absolutely beautiful car.
If someone said that any of the cars above dont look good but they drive and like the Leaf then.... LOL!
But the thing is... some people have good taste.... and most people have bad taste. :shrug: All i know is Model 3 will not and cannot disappoint in terms of design.
Sunlight
Member
I presume by 'sedan' Tesla mean a trunked/booted car rather than a hatchback (this is an Americanism.....). That makes sense if the M3 will be cost restrained as a booted vehicle of this size is surely more cost-effective than a hatchback. And it is easier to make them more rigid.
Also pitches it more squarely in the face of BMW; Audi; Merc; Lexus etc. I imagine we will see station wagon/hatchback/coupe/two-door versions during its life to cover all bases.
Just a thought - a sedan could still maintain the 'Tesla profile' (ie swept rear hatch look) if they used rear buttresses with a recessed steeper rear window (bit like some of the older mid-engine sportscars). This would improve rigidity; reduce direct sun onto rear passengers and increase the size of the boot/trunk lid for easier loading - at the expense of the rear shelf (which I never use anyway...)
Form follows function.....And why not something innovative?
Also pitches it more squarely in the face of BMW; Audi; Merc; Lexus etc. I imagine we will see station wagon/hatchback/coupe/two-door versions during its life to cover all bases.
Just a thought - a sedan could still maintain the 'Tesla profile' (ie swept rear hatch look) if they used rear buttresses with a recessed steeper rear window (bit like some of the older mid-engine sportscars). This would improve rigidity; reduce direct sun onto rear passengers and increase the size of the boot/trunk lid for easier loading - at the expense of the rear shelf (which I never use anyway...)
Form follows function.....And why not something innovative?
Don't read to much into "sedan/coupe" dichotomy.
What Elon tried to say was just the most basic characterization i.e. it wont be a small hatch (VW Golf), it wont be a van (VW Sharan), it wont be a caravan, and it won't be CUV, SUV, XUV.
Range/aero demands will give it into coupe-like profile. Classic sedan profile has poor/high aero drag.
Technically speaking it will be a hatchback just like Model S, just smaller.
MassModel3
Member
What is it that you don't like about the BMW 4 series? Is it the look of the car itself, or is it the fact that it's not that different from every other current model of BMW (hence "boring")?
Personally, the 4's are my favorite of the current BMW line-up. Just the right combination of size and sexy.
But one thing I can say about them is that I've never seen an ugly BMW. Ford, GM, Toyota, and every other major manufacturer of mass produced vehicles has had their share of downright ugly cars. But BMW sedans have always been sleek and sexy. I've never looked at a BMW and said to myself, "What in God's name were they thinking???"
Early last year I knew I wanted an electric car but I was only distantly aware of Tesla at that time. So I drove through the local Ford lot and all I could manage to focus on was the sea of hideous chrome front-ends.
And really, what in God's name was Toyota/Lexus thinking? Awful design choices. Dare I say that the front is just downright ugly? Yes, I dare!
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Bad aerodynamics should preclude the use of a true sedan profile.
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What you are describing is likely impossible. Taller is going to have worse aero than shorter when applying the same design cues.
