Timer charging restricted to 16A?

[HenryT]

Having recently signed up to Octopus Go I have just started using timed charging to take advantage of the lower rate between 00.30 and 04.30. The problem is though, that whenever the timed charging starts, it only ever runs at 16A, not the 32A I would normally get if I just plugged the car into the charger without the timer being set. This has remained the case all the way through the 4 hour period, charging at around 11mph compared to a typical 23mph my car normally reports.

My car (MS 70D 2015) was recently updated to 2020.48.12.1 but I haven't found reports of others with this particular update having a similar problem.

The charger (a Wallbox) happily delivers 32A if I just plug it straight into my car without any timing restriction and also delivers 32A (27mph) on a timed cycle if my wife's ID.3 is connected with the timer set (using the Wallbox app to manage the timing).

I have tried using my car for the timing with 'start charging from...' set but the outcome is the same. While the car is charging at 16A the option to increase the charge rate above 16A is greyed out and just shows 16/16 available. Before the timer kicks in though, and with the cable plugged in it shows 0/32 and 'ready to charge'.

To add insult to injury, the charger app shows 32A being delivered (or rather, made available) but again the car only reports 16A. The voltage is fine at up to 244v and there are no settings in the timer set to deliver reduced power, so I am not sure if there is anything else to check?

Do you think this is something that might be resolved in a further update (as happened previously) or should I be reporting this to Tesla? (I am out of warranty by the way, so no doubt I would be charged to investigate the problem).

Failing that, any other suggestions?

(I have tried a couple of re-boots, following the software update)

 

[NewbieT]

Must have had a late night recently!

Don’t want to insult your intelligence but thought I’d check you aren’t misreading the half- hourly smart meter data? 7kWh / 2 half hours = 3.5kWh in each half hour?

I know you could have worked out 16A using before/after SoC / TeslaFi too.

 

[AndrewGR]

Must have had a late night recently!

Don’t want to insult your intelligence but thought I’d check you aren’t misreading the half- hourly smart meter data? 7kWh / 2 half hours = 3.5kWh in each half hour?

I know you could have worked out 16A using before/after SoC / TeslaFi too.

Several indications in the OP's post that the car is actually charging at 16A. I'd question whether the timing is being controlled by the car or by the chargepoint? If the OP has the option to change where the timing is being controlled from, I'd suggest trying a swap. Doesn't explain away the problem but at least it might get round it!

I charge using Go with timing controlled by my Zappi charger and it works fine at 32A - but I'm aware that the charging system on the M3 is different from the MS. The MS got the ability to have charging controlled by the chargepoint long befoe the M3 did.

 

[MrBadger]

To add insult to injury, the charger app shows 32A being delivered (or rather, made available) but again the car only reports 16A. The voltage is fine at up to 244v and there are no settings in the timer set to deliver reduced power, so I am not sure if there is anything else to check?

Ignoring the statement above, which I have no idea why the discrepancy, have you tried changing the charge rate whilst a manually started charge is in progress? Charge rate is location aware and charge rate may have become lost for some reason so you are having to enter it again for the 'first time'. It defaults to 16A on first occasion and iirc, I think it needs at least some charge history at that location to know whether it can be upped from 16A or not, hence >16A being unavailable.

 

[Jason71]

Ignoring the statement above, which I have no idea why the discrepancy, have you tried changing the charge rate whilst a manually started charge is in progress? Charge rate is location aware and charge rate may have become lost for some reason so you are having to enter it again for the 'first time'. It defaults to 16A on first occasion and iirc, I think it needs at least some charge history at that location to know whether it can be upped from 16A or not, hence >16A being unavailable.

If that were the case would it be showing 16/16? the second number ( as I know you know) is the max that the car believes that the charger can offer. so its like if the charger is plugged in an charges straight away it hand shakes at 32amp but if left plugged in an then the car demands charge later it only handshakes at 16 amp.? If it was location based I don't see why it would charge at 32amp if plugged in and charging starts immediately. You are either in a 16amp location or you are not surely?.
Is it definitely starting at 16 amp and not starting at 32 then dropping down to 16 part way through?
Seen lots of similar problems on here but not this one exactly. At the moment we don't know if the issue is the wall box or the car or a combination.
You probably haven't tried this but what happens if you plug in the wall box. stop charging leave it a couple of hours and then start it manually does that do the same thing? i.e. is it about timed charging or just about starting charging after the charger has been connected a while and has "gone to sleep" itself?
The other things to try are:
reset on the car
another car
another charger

I appreciate the last 2 are tricky especially when we are talking about timed started

You could raise a service request and maybe they will check the car remotely but they are probably going to say its your charger

 

[Cnixon]

Hi, couple of questions to OP. What make is the charger (wall), is it tethered or do you use a separate cable? what app are you using? (who has username/ passwords - i.e control). Has it ever worked? I know nothing about Octopus Go can they control? Are you 3 phase?

 

[HenryT]

Thanks for all the responses. I'll try and answer as many questions as I can;

• The charger is a Wallbox (as stated in my original post). It has always worked fine and still does work fine, its just that the charge rate is being restricted when used on a timed basis with the timing managed either by the car or the Wallbox app.
• Single Phase - Octopus don't control anything - just what I pay for power used

"Don’t want to insult your intelligence but thought I’d check you aren’t misreading the half- hourly smart meter data? 7kWh / 2 half hours = 3.5kWh in each half hour?"

No. I'm reading 16A from the Tesla app and also from the display in the car whilst connected to a 'timed' charge

"Several indications in the OP's post that the car is actually charging at 16A. I'd question whether the timing is being controlled by the car or by the chargepoint? If the OP has the option to change where the timing is being controlled from, I'd suggest trying a swap. Doesn't explain away the problem but at least it might get round it!"

I have tried doing it both ways - with the Wallbox app managing the start time and alternatively with my car managing the start time - in either case the display in the car/on the Tesla app shows 0/32 while waiting but switches to 0/16 (11 mph) and then counts up to 16/16 as the power delivery begins. As I mentioned the + option next to the amp display on the car is 'greyed out' as soon as the charge begins. Again, in either case if I just unplug the charge lead and plug it back in while it is 'live' I get 32A again, 23 mph.

"Ignoring the statement above, which I have no idea why the discrepancy, have you tried changing the charge rate whilst a manually started charge is in progress?"

Yes. The Wallbox app allows you dial up or down the amperage being delivered so I've tried that to no effect - the Wallbox app seems to indicate 32A is being delivered/made available. (I have also tried sliding the charge limit down below the current level so the charging stops then back up again - this was mentioned elsewhere as a solution, but to no effect. Still only runs at 16A at best.).

"It defaults to 16A on first occasion and iirc, I think it needs at least some charge history at that location to know whether it can be upped from 16A or not, hence >16A being unavailable."

As mentioned, it has and does charge at 32A routinely. My wife's car (ID.3) happily charges at 32A on a timer charge with the Wallbox app running the timing. Likewise, mine gets 32A if plugged in with a timer being set.

"At the moment we don't know if the issue is the wall box or the car or a combination". We do - it's the car. As mentioned the Wallbox happily charges at 32A 'on demand' or on a timed basis on my wife's car.

You probably haven't tried this but what happens if you plug in the wall box. stop charging leave it a couple of hours and then start it manually does that do the same thing? i.e. is it about timed charging or just about starting charging after the charger has been connected a while and has "gone to sleep" itself? I have tried it. It will start charging on a timed basis but won't go above 16A. If I unplug it 'live' and plug it back in again it jumps up to 32A and stays there.

The other things to try are:
reset on the car - done that and mention it earlier
another car - done that and say so in my original post. Works fine on 'another car'
another charger - don't have access to another charger I can use on a 'timed' basis, but car draws 32A from a 7kw public charger nearby
You could raise a service request and maybe they will check the car remotely but they are probably going to say its your charger - Which I think will have to do, but again, as mentioned it is not the charger that is at fault as it works fine 'on demand' or timed to charge my wife's car.

 

[HenryT]

Hi, couple of questions to OP. What make is the charger (wall), is it tethered or do you use a separate cable? what app are you using? (who has username/ passwords - i.e control). Has it ever worked? I know nothing about Octopus Go can they control? Are you 3 phase?

Tethered. Has always worked fine as a 'dumb' charger just doesn't like charging my car on a timed basis, but works great on a VW.

Only me controlling it. Single phase.

 

[AndrewGR]

Looks like you’ve tried pretty much all the options. Rather than raising a service request you could try phoning Tesla and pressing the option for help with controls. I’ve found this usually generates helpful advice and, if necessary will schedule a service request.

 

[MrBadger]

"Ignoring the statement above, which I have no idea why the discrepancy, have you tried changing the charge rate whilst a manually started charge is in progress?"

Yes. The Wallbox app allows you dial up or down the amperage being delivered so I've tried that to no effect - the Wallbox app seems to indicate 32A is being delivered/made available. (I have also tried sliding the charge limit down below the current level so the charging stops then back up again - this was mentioned elsewhere as a solution, but to no effect. Still only runs at 16A at best.).

"It defaults to 16A on first occasion and iirc, I think it needs at least some charge history at that location to know whether it can be upped from 16A or not, hence >16A being unavailable."

As mentioned, it has and does charge at 32A routinely. My wife's car (ID.3) happily charges at 32A on a timer charge with the Wallbox app running the timing. Likewise, mine gets 32A if plugged in with a timer being set.

Are you changing the charge rate the in the wallbox or in the car? I'm confused about the final statement in bold.

For clarity, what does the Model S screen indicate for the charge rate? 16/16, 16/32, 32/32, something else?

 

[HenryT]

Looks like you’ve tried pretty much all the options. Rather than raising a service request you could try phoning Tesla and pressing the option for help with controls. I’ve found this usually generates helpful advice and, if necessary will schedule a service request.

Thanks Andrew - that looks like a good option. I'll give it a go.

 

[HenryT]

Are you changing the charge rate the in the wallbox or in the car? I'm confused about the final statement in bold.

For clarity, what does the Model S screen indicate for the charge rate? 16/16, 16/32, 32/32, something else?

Thanks for the follow up VA -
My comment "The Wallbox app allows you dial up or down the amperage being delivered so I've tried that to no effect " means I was using the option in the Wallbox app to reduce the charge from 32A down to zero then back up again. All doing that did, as far as the car was concerned (as confirmed by the Tesla app) was reduce the Amps below 16A (when I reduced it far enough) then back up again, but no further up than 16A. The Tesla app and the screen in the car showing 16/16.

To be absolutely explicit the sequence of events is this;

1. set timer (via Wallbox app or in the car; same result either way)
2. Plug in charge cable at which point car/Tesla app shows 'ready to charge 0/32'
3. Timer starts at 00.30 and charging begins - display on car/app switches from 0/32 to 0/16 and charge begins to build to a max of 16/16 which in my car equates to 11 mph being displayed. At this point the display in the car to hit + next to the amps value is greyed out - it won't let me go any higher, but I can reduce it.
4. If I now pull charge lead out of car and then stick it back in again charging resumes with a 32A limit and quickly climbs to that showing 32/32 and 23 mph.

Repeat the same process with the ID.3 instead of my car plugged in (Wallbox running the timing,) charging starts as 3. above but at 32A and delivers 27 mph.

 

[Dilly]

I had a brief dose of that from my Zappi//model 3, but there were no schedules set in the car.
I had set a lower rate in the car for one night as I didn’t want it to complete before the next pre-heat.
The next time I charged it stayed on the lower rate.
I did a brief full bore charge and changed the Max rate back to 32.
Timed boosts with the Zappi were fine after that.

 

[HenryT]

I had a brief dose of that from my Zappi//model 3, but there were no schedules set in the car.
I had set a lower rate in the car for one night as I didn’t want it to complete before the next pre-heat.
The next time I charged it stayed on the lower rate.
I did a brief full bore charge and changed the Max rate back to 32.
Timed boosts with the Zappi were fine after that.

Thanks Dilly - I can't help thinking this is Tesla software related. I did have an episode several months ago when an update reduced the max charge rate to 16A but at that time I was able to change it in the car to 32A and never had any problem with that again. Much like the point Vanilla Air made about geographical locations being 'forgotten' after an update and needing to be re-set.

This is an odd one though as I can charge at 32A if I just plug the car into the charger while it is live. The handshake shows 32A capability when plugged in before the timed charging begins, but immediately drops to a max of 16A as soon as the current hits.

 

[Dilly]

Thanks Dilly - I can't help thinking this is Tesla software related. I did have an episode several months ago when an update reduced the max charge rate to 16A but at that time I was able to change it in the car to 32A and never had any problem with that again. Much like the point Vanilla Air made about geographical locations being 'forgotten' after an update and needing to be re-set.

This is an odd one though as I can charge at 32A if I just plug the car into the charger while it is live. The handshake shows 32A capability when plugged in before the timed charging begins, but immediately drops to a max of 16A as soon as the current hits.

Is the timer set in the car or the Zappi?
I don’t use car timers, just Zappi boosts.

 

[MrBadger]

4. If I now pull charge lead out of car and then stick it back in again charging resumes with a 32A limit and quickly climbs to that showing 32/32 and 23 mph.

I may be reading this all wrong but I think this is expected behaviour. Not because that how it should work, but because thats how I think it does work as a result of a safety feature, but just my theory on how it behaves if it sees a reduction in offered charge rate falling below 16A.

Sounds like you are resetting things by manually unplugging the charge and it works fine after that?

Is there a reason why you are adjusting the charge rate in the wallbox app? Unless you were trying to charge multiple cars simultaneously, I would have thought that leaving it on 32A was what was needed and letting each car take what it needs when its it turn.

Opologies if teaching you to suck eggs, but by adjusting the rate in the wallbox, you are only adjusting what the wallbox is reporting to the car what it can offer wrt to charge rate. The wallbox is not limiting the charge rate, the cars are doing that themselves based upon the maximum rate that the wallbox has told them it can supply. So stick a car on charge that can only take 16A, it will only take 16A even if the wallbox says that it can supply 32A. Stick a car on charge that can take 32A, it will take the 32A, unless its been confused by being told at some point that the charge point can only do 16A and it doesn't want to raise the charge rate back up without manual intervention.

 

[HenryT]

I may be reading this all wrong but I think this is expected behaviour. Not because that how it should work, but because thats how I think it does work as a result of a safety feature, but just my theory on how it behaves if it sees a reduction in offered charge rate falling below 16A.

Sounds like you are resetting things by manually unplugging the charge and it works fine after that?

Is there a reason why you are adjusting the charge rate in the wallbox app? Unless you were trying to charge multiple cars simultaneously, I would have thought that leaving it on 32A was what was needed and letting each car take what it needs when its it turn.

Opologies if teaching you to suck eggs, but by adjusting the rate in the wallbox, you are only adjusting what the wallbox is reporting to the car what it can offer wrt to charge rate. The wallbox is not limiting the charge rate, the cars are doing that themselves based upon the maximum rate that the wallbox has told them it can supply. So stick a car on charge that can only take 16A, it will only take 16A even if the wallbox says that it can supply 32A. Stick a car on charge that can take 32A, it will take the 32A, unless its been confused by being told at some point that the charge point can only do 16A and it doesn't want to raise the charge rate back up without manual intervention.

Thanks again VA.

I think we are going down a bit of a rabbit hole here.

The Wallbox can reduce the level of charge it offers the car, but as you rightly observe, it can't increase it beyond what is available from the supply. It can and has offered 32A to the car and the car readily takes that on many occasions past. The problem is simply that when a timed charge is implemented, the car (my car) only 'sees' 16A. Frustratingly, my wife's ID.3 gets the full 32A on timed charges.

The only reason I tried adjusting the charge rate in the Wallbox app was to try to get the car to charge at a higher rate than 16A - to wake it up if you will. The hope being that if I move it down below 16A, which the car sees (according to the Tesla app) it might respond when I move it back up beyond 16A. But, as I've said before, the car doesn't see the charge rate any higher than 16A once the timed charge has begun, and doesn't allow me to adjust it upwards in the car (16/16). I can only get back to 32A by unplugging/re-plugging. Hard reset as you note.

Having read through a similar thread from earlier (Scheduled charging restricted to 16A ) I am getting the impression this is about my car being asleep at the time the charge wants to start combined with a another flaw in the firmware yet to be addressed?

 

[Durzel]

Probably not much help but I don’t think I’ve ever been able to manually set the charge amperage above 16A on scheduled charging, but it’s never seemed to matter and has charged at 32A anyway.

... which sortof begs the question how one would set it to 16A if you actually wanted it to only charge at that level.

 

[HenryT]

Is the timer set in the car or the Zappi?
I don’t use car timers, just Zappi boosts.

My wall charger is a 'Wallbox Pulsar' not a Zappi.

I have tried using the delayed start in the Tesla and using the timing schedule in the app the Wallbox has. Both lead to the same conclusion unfortunately.

 

[Neilda]

I am not a techie and also brand new to Tesla ownership - just a couple of days.

I wonder if it might be worthwhile driving down the road and storing that location as your 'home'? Then returning and trying it. Probably a hopeless suggestion!