To FSD or not, that is the question…

[Struja]

So, my 3 month trial for FSD just expired. I believe the app says it’s an additional $8,200 to buy it (I have EAP). I want to hear reasons for why I should or should not buy it. I’m not looking for people to flame one another for differing opinions, just want to hear thoughts on things I may not have considered.

Here were my initial thoughts…

1. It’s cool, really cool. The dashboard view is awesome and I’m amazed at how good it works. Now that it’s gone, I get why I got the free three months because I’m getting major FOMO.

2. Notwithstanding the above, it still makes way too many mistakes for regular use or reliance in my experience.

3. What is the difference between FSD and EAP on the highway? Not sure I know, but this is where I would conceivably use it most. (There might be no practical difference).

4. It’s expensive but I spend money on dumb things all the time so this is not a huge concern.

 

[FatFalcon]

If it's just for highway, no real difference between FSD and EAP.

The math always, always works out in favor of subscribing vs buying.

 

[NightStorm]

I agree, best to subscribe. As a S/W engineer I am impressed at what Tesla has accomplished with FSD. As a driver .. not so much. FSD has been an indefinite promise with no possibility of transfer, except maybe just one time if you act quick. Or perhaps just this once again.

 

[MLXXXp]

The math always, always works out in favor of subscribing vs buying.

You can't subscribe (yet) in Canada, though the ability to subscribe is supposed to be coming fairly soon. If not purchased, @Struja would be without FSD until then.

Tesla FSD subscription coming to Canada “in a few weeks“

Tesla owners in Canada will hopefully be able to subscribe to Full Self-Driving (FSD) later this month. The option will launch in Canada in the next few weeks, nearly 3 years after it first became […]

driveteslacanada.ca

 

[hingisfan]

Unless I'm not liable for a crash, no way!

 

[Tony_YYZ]

You are paying a company to BETA test their software for them. They use your user data to refine their product which they sell for an insane amount of money while you assume all of the risk. And on top of that you don’t even own the software you purchased.

That is a terrible value proposition. And I say that as someone who once had FSD.

 

[TrevTremaine]

Given that Tesla is offering test drives with the new V12 beta (just got a text this evening for it), I'd go and do it and see if it's got any serious advantages. You don't know whether you'll need to pay out more to get the hardware that makes it functional. Otherwise, you're making a salient decision on a substantial amount of money. Subscription will eventually occur - depends upon how long you plan to own it and whether a purchase will remain transferable.

 

[phxazcraig]

So, my 3 month trial for FSD just expired. I believe the app says it’s an additional $8,200 to buy it (I have EAP). I want to hear reasons for why I should or should not buy it. I’m not looking for people to flame one another for differing opinions, just want to hear thoughts on things I may not have considered.

Here were my initial thoughts…

1. It’s cool, really cool. The dashboard view is awesome and I’m amazed at how good it works. Now that it’s gone, I get why I got the free three months because I’m getting major FOMO.

2. Notwithstanding the above, it still makes way too many mistakes for regular use or reliance in my experience.

3. What is the difference between FSD and EAP on the highway? Not sure I know, but this is where I would conceivably use it most. (There might be no practical difference).

4. It’s expensive but I spend money on dumb things all the time so this is not a huge concern.

I got my 2023 MYP last August, and I got a 3-month trial of FSD 11.4.something a month or so later. I definitely liked it when road-tripping, but mostly the highway portion of it. I kept hearing about ver 12, and I really wanted to try it. I decided to subscribe to FSD monthly ($217 incl tax), and I'm glad I'm not paying for 11.4.9 anymore. Ver 11 was just not worth paying for, and I rarely used it off the freeway. Now I have 12.3, and while it has its issues, it's very usable for me around Phoenix, so I'm trying it a lot now. It's still too slow, mostly, but at least it's mostly safe. There are some turns that are hard to see from that I prefer the car to take more than me (because of angles involved).

So - just do a month or two subscription to try it out, or wait for the free month.

 

[xG35]

12.3 is pretty magical, just got it in Toronto. I have bought the software 3 times over 4 Tesla.

I don’t know if it is worth a lump sum 16k. It doesn’t add any value to the car. It is quite a luxury package. I enjoy barely needing to driver, especially at night though. If I replace a car once every 5 years, I probably pay the monthly instead

 

[Tony_YYZ]

Also remember, the cameras still can’t function when the sun hits it at certain angles. None of the Tesla’s on the road today have the actual hardware suite needed for this stuff to work properly as evident by people getting errors in sunlight and in areas with little to no street lights. Maybe HW10 will finally be ready and the software at that time might be capable. None of our cars today will ever achieve what Tesla states FSD will be.

 

[SidetrackedSue]

You have done what I recommend, buy EAP and wait until FSD will do everything you want without any further risk to your pocketbook.

Canadian issues:

Doesn't recognize school zones. Some places have speed cameras for school zones, therefore one can expect tickets to arrive in the mail if you are going through such places.

Doesn't recognize pot holes. Therefore, given the prevalence of them in most parts of Canada, you can expect higher tire, wheel and suspension repair costs. Pot holes are a hazard even when not on FSD but no need to deliberately drive through them.

The speed control is dodgy on the latest version which can lead to speed camera tickets (they don't appear to have these in the US so while maintaining speed is an issue there, there is not risk of a ticket unless one speeds in front of the police.)

Has some issues on non-control-access highways (diving into turning lanes then hitting the shoulder if it can't return to the straight lane.) This is not a Canadian only issue, but since most parts of Canada are not as well served with controlled access highways as the US, this is an issue that will occur more often for those of us driving in non-urban settings. Road trips on a 400 series highway in Ontario is relaxing. On a regular highway, not so much since the tendency to dive into turn lanes is not consistent so you have to be ready at all times. Not relaxing at all.

My suggestion is to hang tight and then subscribe when you are going on road trips unless you do a lot of controlled access highway driving daily. Subscription will come to Canada soon. One guess is when the 1 month free trial is over.

 

[primedive]

My experience with it was pretty much a disaster. Too fast on residential streets with auto max, accelerates too hard like it’s in a street race to 50, but brakes too slowly and creeps too long, doesn’t yield right of way at roundabouts. I also can’t stand NHSTA stops, or at least the way the car does them. It doesn’t take the right of way fast enough. It crosses over white lines all of the time because it doesn’t choose the right lane quickly enough, or ever.

The way it locks onto the steering wheel also means any attempt to avoid holes or debris, or correct the car’s positioning, also results in a disengagement.

I sort of bought into the hype, and it’s a little smoother than 11.x when it works, but for me it won’t be worth paying for until it’s reliable enough that I don’t need to babysit it and stress out more than just driving myself.

 

[Smytty]

I just tried it out on the free 30day trial, and I gotta say I’m impressed. Had a couple of speed issues (going less than the speed limit on a relatively narrow country road, and one left turn where the car went right into the right lane instead of going into the left lane then changing lanes). I’ll play around with it for the next 29 days, including a 12 hour road trip I’m planning. Then I’ll decide if I want to do an intermittent subscription - if you can do that - for the rare times when I do a road trip. Still not worth 16k for me…but then again, I like to drive fast.

 

[Smytty]

I just tried it out on the free 30day trial, and I gotta say I’m impressed. Had a couple of speed issues (going less than the speed limit on a relatively narrow country road, and one left turn where the car went right into the right lane instead of going into the left lane then changing lanes). I’ll play around with it for the next 29 days, including a 12 hour road trip I’m planning. Then I’ll decide if I want to do an intermittent subscription - if you can do that - for the rare times when I do a road trip. Still not worth 16k for me…but then again, I like to drive fast.

Ok, after having used it for a couple weeks, here’s an update on what I like and what I hate.

Like:
- updated visualizations - works well to ensure you know the car is seeing what you are.
-nav on autopilot
-Stop signs and traffic lights.
-pretty good “judgement” on yellow lights - decisions to stop or continue align well with my own decisions.
-prompt for “auto pilot disconnected” - glad to see the software lets you tell them what the problem was.

Hate:
-speed control is all over the place - usually slower than the speed limit. If you set it above the speed limit, it continually slows down toward the limit again.
-passing really close to parked cars
-really close to curbs on occasion
-on mostly snow covered road, tried to stay centred in the lane (usually good), but didn’t follow the tire tracks from other cars, meaning that it tried to drive on the part of the road with the least traction
-poor eyesight for speed limit signs 80 read as 60 a bunch of times, 30 a couple of times. I don’t need the car suddenly slowing to 30 in an 80 zone…
-can’t just put it in TACC mode - sometimes I just want the car to manage a constant speed and I’ll take care of the steering.
-car doesn’t know how to park in my driveway. It should just do that when it brings me home instead of pulling up in front of the house.
-AUTO WIPERS!!!! (Not a FSD unique problem, but still…)

Some really cool tech, and I hope tesla gets enough data to improve it. I don’t see any teslas driving themselves around anytime in the near future tho - still lots to work on.

 

[primedive]

Ok, after having used it for a couple weeks, here’s an update on what I like and what I hate.

Like:
- updated visualizations - works well to ensure you know the car is seeing what you are.
-nav on autopilot
-Stop signs and traffic lights.
-pretty good “judgement” on yellow lights - decisions to stop or continue align well with my own decisions.
-prompt for “auto pilot disconnected” - glad to see the software lets you tell them what the problem was.

Hate:
-speed control is all over the place - usually slower than the speed limit. If you set it above the speed limit, it continually slows down toward the limit again.
-passing really close to parked cars
-really close to curbs on occasion
-on mostly snow covered road, tried to stay centred in the lane (usually good), but didn’t follow the tire tracks from other cars, meaning that it tried to drive on the part of the road with the least traction
-poor eyesight for speed limit signs 80 read as 60 a bunch of times, 30 a couple of times. I don’t need the car suddenly slowing to 30 in an 80 zone…
-can’t just put it in TACC mode - sometimes I just want the car to manage a constant speed and I’ll take care of the steering.
-car doesn’t know how to park in my driveway. It should just do that when it brings me home instead of pulling up in front of the house.
-AUTO WIPERS!!!! (Not a FSD unique problem, but still…)

Some really cool tech, and I hope tesla gets enough data to improve it. I don’t see any teslas driving themselves around anytime in the near future tho - still lots to work on.

Agreed with this feedback. I like to keep a lot more space to parked cars than FSD does. Apparently creating two driver profiles is the way to change to tacc while driving…