TOU Broken?

[kardiff_kris]

So with this last update ToU appears to be totally and fully broken?

Despite being set on ToU the system happily pulled from the grid with batteries at 100% (reserve set to 5%).

Switched back to self powered mode does start draining the batteries. But that isn’t the point. Why in the world did Tesla brake this feature?

 

[jjrandorin]

There is not enough information here to try to help you troubleshoot.

1. What "latest update" are you talking about? Firmware? Tesla App? If Tesla App have you reviewed the threads here about the new tesla app?
2. How did you have the system setup before? Balanced, Cost Savings?
3. What time did you have TOU set to?
4. When was the last time it worked properly?

 

[kardiff_kris]

1)latest update to my knowledge is the app change. But I don’t know or really care. I didn’t change anything and now TOU isn’t honored.

2)Cost savings

3) it was matched to my ToU plan?

4) Looks like Oct 31st but not really sure. Just seeing powerwalls pegged at 100% starting then. With no change on my end.

I’ve had the install with the same settings since Oct of last year. Everything was working fine tell whatever update, app or firmware, it doesn’t really matter, screwed it up.

 

[BGbreeder]

If you would like help, then details would help others help you; e.g. check your app for revision number. Then check in your app for your gateway firmware level, and finally, post a screenshot of your TOU settings and power flow.

if you just wanted vent, feel free to ignore this.

 

[kardiff_kris]

app is 21.35.3

Gateway firmware isn’t listed

This was yesterday, after trying to see if a day of self powered fixed it. It did not obviously.

The Nov 3rd photo the new “default” behavior.

Trouble shooting so far: logging in/out of the app: switching between tou and self powered: going through the guide to select power plan: entering custom TOU plan: adjusting reserve settings

All result in grid power being pulled instead of using power walls during peak period. The only way I can get the power walls to discharge is going to self powered mode.

 

[sorka]

app is 21.35.3

Gateway firmware isn’t listed

This was yesterday, after trying to see if a day of self powered fixed it. It did not obviously.

The Nov 3rd photo the new “default” behavior.

Trouble shooting so far: logging in/out of the app: switching between tou and self powered: going through the guide to select power plan: entering custom TOU plan: adjusting reserve settings

All result in grid power being pulled instead of using power walls during peak period. The only way I can get the power walls to discharge is going to self powered mode.

21.35.3 IS the the TEG version. Same as I have but my TOU is still working fine.

 

[kardiff_kris]

So what in the world could it be? ToU is set, power reserve is set, but it refuses to use power walls on ToU during peak (or any point for that matter).

It’s just totally unacceptable that an app or firmware update breaks core functionality. I didn’t change anything tell I noticed the change in behavior.

It seemed to coincide with whatever this utility provider layout/input screen nonsense is. I just want the old non broken TOU control back (aka tou working), or you know what we paid thousands of dollars for.

 

[jjrandorin]

It seemed to coincide with whatever this utility provider layout/input screen nonsense is. I just want the old non broken TOU control back (aka tou working), or you know what we paid thousands of dollars for.

If you now have the new utility provider / ability to set more than one peak period, you may need to go through and set things back up again. This thread talks about it a bit, with a bunch of people waiting to get this functionality:

Utility Rate Plans Where are they?

I've got the latest app update. The what's new talked about Utility Rate Plans and ability to add more than 1 peak period. I've looked at Utility Rate Plans | Tesla Support which is saying the same thing. I'm 2 weeks away from having a split peak rate period, 5a-9a then 5p-9p for 6 months...

teslamotorsclub.com

Utility Rate Plans | Tesla Support

The Tesla app allows you to add your utility rate plan for more accurate value calculation estimates and system optimization.

www.tesla.com

 

[kardiff_kris]

If you now have the new utility provider / ability to set more than one peak period, you may need to go through and set things back up again. This thread talks about it a bit, with a bunch of people waiting to get this functionality:

Utility Rate Plans Where are they?

I've got the latest app update. The what's new talked about Utility Rate Plans and ability to add more than 1 peak period. I've looked at Utility Rate Plans | Tesla Support which is saying the same thing. I'm 2 weeks away from having a split peak rate period, 5a-9a then 5p-9p for 6 months...

teslamotorsclub.com

Utility Rate Plans | Tesla Support

The Tesla app allows you to add your utility rate plan for more accurate value calculation estimates and system optimization.

www.tesla.com

Thanks, I’ve unfortunately already tried that and it didn’t work. I tried setting other ToU plans with my provider and other providers and none triggered battery use during peak with a 100% full battery instead always pulling from the grid.

 

[dailo]

Thanks, I’ve unfortunately already tried that and it didn’t work. I tried setting other ToU plans with my provider and other providers and none triggered battery use during peak with a 100% full battery instead always pulling from the grid.

Have you tried resetting your system? That seems to have worked for me before when TOU wasn’t working as expected.

 

[kardiff_kris]

Resetting the little gateway box up by the router or something else? If the later, no. Is there a link somewhere to do that?

I did just call Tesla support and they sent it over to Tier 2 as everything appears to be set up correctly but obviously not working as intended.

 

[dailo]

Resetting the little gateway box up by the router or something else? If the later, no. Is there a link somewhere to do that?

I did just call Tesla support and they sent it over to Tier 2 as everything appears to be set up correctly but obviously not working as intended.

I turn off all the toggle switches and breakers to the system until the green LEDs turn off and then turn everything back on. Also try creating an all peak time period and see if that works.

 

[Redhill_qik]

Resetting the little gateway box up by the router or something else? If the later, no. Is there a link somewhere to do that?

I did just call Tesla support and they sent it over to Tier 2 as everything appears to be set up correctly but obviously not working as intended.

The new utility pricing updates to the Time Based Control functionality thinks that it doesn't make sense to discharge the Powerwalls as it isn't cost efficient under some rates plans for lower differences between Peak and Off-Peak TOU rates. Please see this post on how to update your plan to go back to what you want.

Tesla app version 4.0.0 has app re design for both car and energy

If you re-install the 3.x version on an old device you can still choose between balanced and cost saving time based control. Our Powerwalls are still working as we programmed them to 3 years ago. @MorrisonHiker what version of the firmware do you have? On 21.35.0 we had the 3.x app giving...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[alexguichet]

The new utility pricing updates to the Time Based Control functionality thinks that it doesn't make sense to discharge the Powerwalls as it isn't cost efficient under some rates plans for lower differences between Peak and Off-Peak TOU rates. Please see this post on how to update your plan to go back to what you want.

Tesla app version 4.0.0 has app re design for both car and energy

If you re-install the 3.x version on an old device you can still choose between balanced and cost saving time based control. Our Powerwalls are still working as we programmed them to 3 years ago. @MorrisonHiker what version of the firmware do you have? On 21.35.0 we had the 3.x app giving...

teslamotorsclub.com

Indeed, there's also a paragraph on the Tesla website about how Powerwall charging behavior can change with seasons.

Why did my Powerwall reduce charging and discharging during the winter?​

In Time-Based Control, Powerwall uses your rate plan to optimize for economic value generation. In the winter, some time-of-use plans have too similar prices during off-peak and peak periods to economically load-shift, so you may see reduced daily use of your Powerwall. If you prefer to maximize the daily use of your Powerwall, consider switching your home to Self-Powered mode, with a higher backup reserve to account for seasonal reduction in solar production.

 

[kardiff_kris]

The new utility pricing updates to the Time Based Control functionality thinks that it doesn't make sense to discharge the Powerwalls as it isn't cost efficient under some rates plans for lower differences between Peak and Off-Peak TOU rates. Please see this post on how to update your plan to go back to what you want.

Tesla app version 4.0.0 has app re design for both car and energy

If you re-install the 3.x version on an old device you can still choose between balanced and cost saving time based control. Our Powerwalls are still working as we programmed them to 3 years ago. @MorrisonHiker what version of the firmware do you have? On 21.35.0 we had the 3.x app giving...

teslamotorsclub.com

The quoted thread did not solve it for me. It still wants to pull from the grid.

I tried using the pricing in the post, as well as some others (including a buy price of $9.99 kWh), and during peak it still refuses to touch the powerwalls.

 

[kardiff_kris]

Indeed, there's also a paragraph on the Tesla website about how Powerwall charging behavior can change with seasons.

There can’t be any scenario where pulling from the grid during peak with 100% charges batteries is the intended behavior. Yeah I get it might change, but with a peak rate of .38 kWh there is no scenario (outside of storm watch which I have disabled to test to no effect) where that makes sense.

 

[Redhill_qik]

There can’t be any scenario where pulling from the grid during peak with 100% charges batteries is the intended behavior. Yeah I get it might change, but with a peak rate of .38 kWh there is no scenario (outside of storm watch which I have disabled to test to no effect) where that makes sense.

Ok, here is a scenario.

• Peak pricing for Buy & Sell is $0.28
• Off-Peak pricing for Buy & Sell is $0.27
• Powerwall charging efficiency is 90%
• House load requires 10 kWh during Peak
• Solar generates 3 kWh during Peak
• If the Powerwall is used
  • Savings by not importing is 10kWh * $0.28 = $2.80
  • Credit for exporting is 3kWh * $0.28 = $0.96
  • Recharging the Powerwall when Solar returns Off-Peak requires 11.11 kWh (10 kWh/90%) losing NEM credits $3.00
  • Net gain is $0.64 ($2.80 + $0.96 - $3.00)
• If the Powerwall was not used
  • Solar offsets house load requiring only 7kWh (10-3) * $0.28 = $1.96
  • Powerwall doesn't need to be charged and 11.11 kWh is sent to grid * $0.27 = $3.00
  • Net gain is $1.04

In this scenario, not using the Powerwall results in a NEM balance gain of $0.40.

 

[kardiff_kris]

Ok, here is a scenario.

• Peak pricing for Buy & Sell is $0.28
• Off-Peak pricing for Buy & Sell is $0.27
• Powerwall charging efficiency is 90%
• House load requires 10 kWh during Peak
• Solar generates 3 kWh during Peak
• If the Powerwall is used
  • Savings by not importing is 10kWh * $0.28 = $2.80
  • Credit for exporting is 3kWh * $0.28 = $0.96
  • Recharging the Powerwall when Solar returns Off-Peak requires 11.11 kWh (10 kWh/90%) losing NEM credits $3.00
  • Net gain is $0.64 ($2.80 + $0.96 - $3.00)
• If the Powerwall was not used
  • Solar offsets house load requiring only 7kWh (10-3) * $0.28 = $1.96
  • Powerwall doesn't need to be charged and 11.11 kWh is sent to grid * $0.27 = $3.00
  • Net gain is $1.04

In this scenario, not using the Powerwall results in a NEM balance gain of $0.40.

Fair. Currently it’s dark out and producing 0 kWh with 100% charged powerwalls and it wants to buy during a known peak period.

 

[Redhill_qik]

Fair. Currently it’s dark out and producing 0 kWh with 100% charged powerwalls and it wants to buy during a known peak period.

Doesn't really change anything. Buy 10 kWh at $0.28 ($2.80) and can't sell 11.11 kWh at $0.27 ($3.00) so you lose $0.20 in NEM credits. Note: Those were hypothetical numbers, I have no idea what your real numbers are.

What are the buy/sell rates for each TOU period in your Tesla App?
What are your actual TOU rates right now for Winter and since you are in San Diego and likely have SCE as your utility, what are the NBC rates?

Did you read my other post in the 4.0.0 thread on what I did to "fix" it for me?

 

[kardiff_kris]

The numbers provided by Tesla are lower than the actual. What is/are NBC/SCE?

The only sheet I know of is https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/regulatory/11-1-21 Schedule DR-SES Total Rates Table.pdf and don’t see anything matching those acronyms.

Yes I tried using your exact numbers and it didn’t work.

While not precise, we average close to 3kwh /hr of power usage (from all sources) during our peak period so 5 hours (4-9pm).