Toyota Mechanic Reviews the Model Y

[Eto Demerzel]

It's funny that the reviewer agree with you that the Tesla UI is great but he thinks the car is a terrible place to be in.

I thought about it a little more and I do take issue with his assertion that the Model Y is "horrendous" as a car. He hammers on how cheap the materials and build quality are. While that particular car does have the squeaking interior door handles (mine doesn't), at the very least I think the materials you can touch is objectively not "worse than then cheapest Mitsubishi", as he contends. I've always found the plastics used in the MY to be of decent quality. The matte center console feels pretty solid to me and good to the touch. I believe every metal looking piece is also actually metal, unlike many other cars that use painted plastics, even some that are in the near-luxury class. No gloss black is also a plus. I really hate gloss black plastics in cars so I appreciate that Tesla got rid of that in 2021. He says that the plastic cover behind the front seats are super cheap and could break if you look at it. Really? It may not be the most luxurious thing, but at the very least it's a pretty sturdy piece (easily surviving kids feet kicking against it), so I thought that was a really stupid comment.

Anyway, it's fine that he hates the car overall. Not everyone has to like it. It's just that some of the exaggerated negative stuff is a bit much.

Yeah, I said the same. He extremely exaggerated the negatives.
I think he wanted to make a negative video but from a mechanic's pov to give the air of objectivity.
The problem is, he only pointed to some fit and finish issues and opinion on design. He didn't go into any manufacturing comparisons.

As far as materials, I agree, they are generally good. The seatback kickpanels seem good to me too.
I like the design of the seats.
But hard plastics on the door cards on a $50k+ car? I understand on the first year or two but this should have been upgraded by now.
Tesla hides it well at least.
There are a lot of missing finish details on a premium vehicle though. But, again, it's hidden well and the design plays into their favor.

I like Tesla's dash a lot better than the plastic fantastic Q4 etron dash.

 

[Apprunner]

I have watched other videos of his and find him to be very knowledgeable and balanced with his opinions. Difficult to find two more different brands than Toyota and Tesla. Toyota takes forever to update their vehicles and over engineers their parts, as a result they have stellar reliability.

He does praise the thermal management system and vehicle software. He spends little time on driving dynamics, which is a plus for Tesla. Vehicle looks are obviously subjective, you know what you are getting in that area and up to the individual if one likes it or not.

Agree....want a boring appliance, Toyota is a great appliance. Want to have fun driving, pick the Tesla. Ironically, my Tesla is far more convenient vs. my Toyotas as there almost no maintenance requirements. I really don't miss dealers at all.

 

[240vPlug]

Did I miss something in the video? He doesn't even show himself driving the car...arguably the most important.part of any automotive review. The video from when he was on YAA/CarEdge tells it all really. He is regurgitating the same old stuff the typical EV hater says which clearly shows he has very little knowledge on EV. Because of this I'm chalking his review up to "I work on Toyotas and I hate Teslas". It's not a serious unbiased review.

 

[WyoDude]

Wait, wasn’t one of your “facts“ that the Subaru outback was the worst selling SUV of 2022?

Pretty sure they were talking about the Subaru EV

 

[GoVols!]

I think for a lot of Toyota truck guys, technology is viewed with suspicion at best. I’d say setting aside the software side of things, and just focusing on the car itself, Toyota’s truck business isn’t all that innovative any more. When they came out with Toyota truck and 4runner those vehicles were game changing because they were small, efficient, reliable vehicles in a world dominated by trucks that were the polar opposite. Today their mass market vehicle model y competitor is the Rav4 and I don’t know anyone who gets in one of those and thinks “oooh this feels fancy”.

Over time Toyota has chased the large truck and SUV profit margins over an innovation cliff. IMO Subaru and Honda are much more interesting and innovative in making vehicles that blend function, looks and efficiency. There is nothing magical about a body on frame v8 that weighs 5-6000 lbs. These are expensive vehicles to run and they increase in cost exponentially once they start breaking down. They will “run forever“ if you have a good mechanic and deep pockets. A lot of it is nostalgia.

This is no knock on Amd who makes some very valid points that EVs don’t yet have the track record or infrastructure to match the run foreverness of a Toyota and local mechanic. But it is unclear to me who sees themselves driving the same Toyota RAV4 15, 20 or 30 years down the road.

I disagree a little here about the V8 and body on frame but agree with much of what you said. I’ve owned 4 200 series Land Cruisers and the previous three have been put through the wringer with high miles and never had a single issue. The frame on a 200 series is similar in size and strength of an F-250. When you get a chance, look under a 200 series and the build quality is extremely good and everything is oversized and built. The 5.7 V8 is slightly different from the Tundra in terms of small parts. The plastics and metals component are actually thicker. The LC is absolutely low tech but for good reason. It just works. Many members in Ih8mud.com are well over 300k miles at they haven’t much money to keep it running. Just the standard plugs and some replace the heating core and alternator as they tend to overland in the boonies and don’t want to risk it. Many and I mean many folks across the World on our forum have 200 and 100 series have Uber high mile range. You don’t need deep pockets to run them to a million miles. I’ve only heard of a couple outliers who had to do engine replacements and that is usually do to poor maintenance or bad oil.

I am not a fan of the Tundra. They are also great long lasting vehicles but they feel cheap. If I was going for a heavy duty truck, Power Wagon all day long.

 

[GoVols!]

You know there was a story on MSNBC I believe. Many think Toyota is in bed with big oil. Toyota came out with some innovative cars ...they practically put hybrids on the map with the Prius. They have just stagnated and not done anything with EV even when everyone else is. They have indeed built a reputation for reliability by not innovating. They use the same power plants for as long as possible and use previous generation fuel injection tech. Anyone could do what they are doing by doing the same thing I feel.

being a Toyota tech should be much simpler because nothing really changes all that much at Toyota.

This is absolutely untrue. I’m sorry, but this needs to be called out. First issue is the report coming from fake news MSNBC who has an agenda to push. This is why I can’t watch any national news station. These idiots aren’t in the auto industry or understand how manufacturing works.

The reason I know for a fact Toyota is not in bed with oil because I worked very closely with many folks from Toyota. I belong to a group of 200/300 series owners who run support teams in Baja,Dakar,etc. with many other folks in the racing community who are or was working along side TRD and Toyota corp.. David Wilson is a very good friend of mine “head of TRD”, Tim Ingle and Shinichi Yasui are great people who really care about Toyota development and they are always at the races with many others from corporate. Look them up on the internet. I was very fortunate to meet Akio Toyoda a couple of times and he is a wild one. He would rather race than sit in an office and he can drive. These folks have a huge passion and the last thing they care about is the oil industry. They take building autos very seriously. Yes, they don’t have the latest and greatest tech but that’s never been what they are about. Having spoken to Shinichi, Toyota does not believe EV’s can scale up this quickly and also be affordable. They much prefer the hybrid solution for years to come.

 

[GoVols!]

Toyota stagnated on ev's because Aioka Toyoda believed in hybrid and hydrogen, wasting billions on it and most importantly-time.
They own patents on many hybrid technologies they license out to Ford and others.
Most consumers see them as half-steps that cost the same as a ev.
Toyoda stepped down recently because he's so out of touch. Sato (Lexus) takes over.

In the meantime, Tesla went from 22k units to 1million per year - in less than 10 yrs. Probably the fastest growth in the history of mass production cars.

By 2030-2032, predictions are the global market will be 100% EV.
Even if Toyota could match Tesla's historic growth in sales to 1 million ev's per year in 10 yrs... they would only be making 1 million cars.
Problem is, they currently make 10 million cars a year. Those factories can't just start pumping out ev's.
So, starting this year, Toyota would have to pump out 1 million ev's every year to 2032 to break even. That is not counting the cost of ev manufacturing plants, which don't exist yet. Uphill battle.


2022 global sales:
1. Toyota RAV4, leading with 871,513 sales
2. Tesla Model Y that with 758,599 sales
The key here is that Tesla did it without marketing, the vehicle is double the price of the Rav4, and is on a radical upward sales trend.
Rav4 is on a negative sales trend.

Yes, a vehicle like the Land Cruiser is built to last 30 years +. That's the reason they are special vehicles. That's also the reason they don't sell well: The same reason Teslas do- what's underneath is what's special about both these vehicles.

Better built means just that. Construction, fit, finish, assembly, materials and details. Land Cruisers are built far better than almost anything available.
"hyperbolic justifications"... anyone can objectively look at the construction of a Land Cruiser, GX, or NX or Tesla and see all the manufacturing comparison. It's in your driveway. Tesla didn't hide it. They were smart about how they did it, but it's right there for you to see.
Tesla did things very smart, and they've come a long way very quickly and did it in the US. They are not, however, at the coachwork standard of Toyota or Lexus. But, as i've said many times, Tesla offers the best overall package.

Not sure why people get so butthurt hearing that. It's like saying "that is white paint" and then someone gets upset you called it white.

I personally don't think PHEV's work for me. Doesn't alter the point they are popular.
The reason there is a wait list for any car is production. That's why Teslas were backed up for a year.
They aren't making enough of any popular model.

That is a different argument from Toyota build quality. People do, in fact, look at Toyota's for reliability. That's not my argument, that's just part of the brand. That's because many Toyotas are on the most durable vehicle lists.

Of course to each their own. Speaking honestly about products is just that. Just because I state a fact doesn't mean i'm defending it.

It’s a misnomer to say the Land Cruiser didn’t sell well. Cumulative Global Sales of the Toyota Land Cruiser Series Surpass 10 Million Units | Toyota | Global Newsroom | Toyota Motor Corporation Official Global Website

 

[Eto Demerzel]

Yes, I was speaking about the US. I should have clarified.
They stopped selling it here, sales fell off a cliff of already slow sales.
Anniversary 200 came as the last year for the LC in the US-just in time for the boom in interest in Land Cruisers and pandemic offroad camping. Terrible timing.
I hear they are thinking of bringing it back.

 

[GoVols!]

Yes, I was speaking about the US. I should have clarified.
They stopped selling it here, sales fell off a cliff of already slow sales.
Anniversary 200 came as the last year for the LC in the US-just in time for the boom in interest in Land Cruisers and pandemic offroad camping. Terrible timing.
I hear they are thinking of bringing it back.

I get why they don’t do as well here. Most folks want plush, fast or both type of suvs and rarely are they in the bush or no-mans land for hundreds of miles. I love my 200 Heritage for family road trips but don’t get me wrong, I would prefer a new Lincoln Navigator or Range Rover L for pavement trips out of state. We just don’t want to risk having issues. My buddy had a new Earthroamer that broke down on him traveling through South America and he gave up and bought then outfitted a new 200 series. Check him out on instagram. “greatwhiteRomer”. The 200 will outlast anything thrown at it but it’s pretty old tech and I’m ok with that. My second 2014 and 3rd 2019 200 were used as a Baja chase vehicles and it’s always surreal running them hard for hours when temps swing from 20f to 75f in just a couple of hours. I ran King 3.0 on both and they love the bumps and ruts. The actual 200 Canguro race truck just screams wide open non-stop.

Rumors are flying a Land Cruiser is coming back but it’s not the 300 series. From my source, which is a pretty good one, we will see a Land Cruiser ‘lite’ Prado. I bought the last Heritage 200 series in white.

Something I’ve noticed, is a few of the 200 series owners I know also own Teslas and or Porsches. The reason I’m shopping for an EV, is purely out of convenience for the mundane tasks where I don’t need my 200 and since my wife works from home, the Tesla can be used more often by me while the 200 is used for nasty weather and overlanding trips to the mtns, etc.

 

[Eto Demerzel]

Prado makes sense. Price would be more in line with Toyota and keep Lexus dealers happy. Maybe canabalize GX sales but those are small fries by now.

Black roof is unusual. It would match a white tesla y
you would have the ultimate ice drivetrain and the ultimate ev drivetrain

 

[GoVols!]

Prado makes sense. Price would be more in line with Toyota and keep Lexus dealers happy. Maybe canabalize GX sales but those are small fries by now.

Black roof is unusual. It would match a white tesla y
you would have the ultimate ice drivetrain and the ultimate ev drivetrain

The new GX will be a redesigned hybrid released beginning first quarter of 2024…supposedly.

Thanks, I think you’re right about a white MY! That would look cool next to each other. I’ll see if I can get the wife onboard. She was seriously considering the Red with white interior. For some reason, that color combo reminds of lipstick. Pretty fitting for my blonde wife.

 

[Tha_Ape]

Tesla could upgrade the seats and suspension, charge 10k more and call it a luxury edition.

I traded in a 2010 Prius for mine so that was not my priority. Efficiency and cargo space were what I cared about. But there are people that want nicer interiors and ride. They probably wouldn't mind spending a little more for it, too.

 

[spiny]

I disagree a little here about the V8 and body on frame but agree with much of what you said. I’ve owned 4 200 series Land Cruisers and the previous three have been put through the wringer with high miles and never had a single issue. The frame on a 200 series is similar in size and strength of an F-250. When you get a chance, look under a 200 series and the build quality is extremely good and everything is oversized and built. The 5.7 V8 is slightly different from the Tundra in terms of small parts. The plastics and metals component are actually thicker. The LC is absolutely low tech but for good reason. It just works. Many members in Ih8mud.com are well over 300k miles at they haven’t much money to keep it running. Just the standard plugs and some replace the heating core and alternator as they tend to overland in the boonies and don’t want to risk it. Many and I mean many folks across the World on our forum have 200 and 100 series have Uber high mile range. You don’t need deep pockets to run them to a million miles. I’ve only heard of a couple outliers who had to do engine replacements and that is usually do to poor maintenance or bad oil.

I am not a fan of the Tundra. They are also great long lasting vehicles but they feel cheap. If I was going for a heavy duty truck, Power Wagon all day long.

I hear you - not at all denying the potential for longevity of an LC. That said, from my experience, even on an LC stuff wears out and that stuff is expensive. Everything being oversized and overbuilt is an advantage in specific use case scenarios. Paris-Dakar comes to mind. It is not clear to me how much of an advantage it is in an urban setting with stop and go traffic. This is not an environment where a 3 ton body on frame V8 excels. Setting aside maintenance costs, 300k in a Land Cruiser will cost nearly $100k in gas and fluid changes alone. So let’s just say, people driving these around Los Angeles are not doing so because they are frugal. The fact that Toyota never even brought a base LC 200 to the US (and is selling the LC300 only as a Lexus) tells us something about who the target demographic and use case actually is. Oh, and one more thing, please talk to your friends at Toyota about bringing a base LC300 to the US!

 

[yellowr6]

Just finish watching his Review. He didn’t mention about tesla SC!

Yea yea yea. Competition is here and catching up. Tesla will be a thing of the past. Legacy auto will blow by tesla with their built and finish. Same old story we been hearing for years. I’ll believe it when I see it. I’ll give them another 3-5 years to get where tesla is today. By then, tesla cars should be able to drive itself.

my wife drives a Prius prime. What Toyota need to do first is figure out their App! They charging ppl $12 a month or something to do basically nothing. Figure out their app and software , now we talking! Otherwise, good bye to Toyota in 7-10 years.

 

[GoVols!]

I hear you - not at all denying the potential for longevity of an LC. That said, from my experience, even on an LC stuff wears out and that stuff is expensive. Everything being oversized and overbuilt is an advantage in specific use case scenarios. Paris-Dakar comes to mind. It is not clear to me how much of an advantage it is in an urban setting with stop and go traffic. This is not an environment where a 3 ton body on frame V8 excels. Setting aside maintenance costs, 300k in a Land Cruiser will cost nearly $100k in gas and fluid changes alone. So let’s just say, people driving these around Los Angeles are not doing so because they are frugal. The fact that Toyota never even brought a base LC 200 to the US (and is selling the LC300 only as a Lexus) tells us something about who the target demographic and use case actually is. Oh, and one more thing, please talk to your friends at Toyota about bringing a base LC300 to the US!

I agree, the 200 is not meant for city driving and stop n’ go LALA land traffic. This is why a Tesla would be a great edition for these situations. I am not a fan of the LX600. I made my case about ditching the spilt gate four years ago and nobody listened. Big mistake! Now only BMW and Land Rover continue the split gate. It’s one of the my useful functions for overlanders, skiers, tailgaters, etc.

Ha, I wish they’d bring a base LC300 or the GR sport. But that’s not happening unfortunately for the foreseeable future. Toyotas direction under new leadership is going to be interesting. I am not sure if reliability will be top of list.

 

[240vPlug]

This is absolutely untrue. I’m sorry, but this needs to be called out. First issue is the report coming from fake news MSNBC who has an agenda to push. This is why I can’t watch any national news station. These idiots aren’t in the auto industry or understand how manufacturing works.

The reason I know for a fact Toyota is not in bed with oil because I worked very closely with many folks from Toyota. I belong to a group of 200/300 series owners who run support teams in Baja,Dakar,etc. with many other folks in the racing community who are or was working along side TRD and Toyota corp.. David Wilson is a very good friend of mine “head of TRD”, Tim Ingle and Shinichi Yasui are great people who really care about Toyota development and they are always at the races with many others from corporate. Look them up on the internet. I was very fortunate to meet Akio Toyoda a couple of times and he is a wild one. He would rather race than sit in an office and he can drive. These folks have a huge passion and the last thing they care about is the oil industry. They take building autos very seriously. Yes, they don’t have the latest and greatest tech but that’s never been what they are about. Having spoken to Shinichi, Toyota does not believe EV’s can scale up this quickly and also be affordable. They much prefer the hybrid solution for years to come.

Yeah, I get it. I watched on YT... don't watch news channels at all honestly. I just find it interesting that they haven't done much with EV. Then again Honda hasn't done much either unless you count the GM based prologue that's coming next year.

I want to be clear that I don't necessarily agree with MSNBC...but I think Toyota will be behind in the EV space and this will hurt them long term.

 

[240vPlug]

Just finish watching his Review. He didn’t mention about tesla SC!

Yea yea yea. Competition is here and catching up. Tesla will be a thing of the past. Legacy auto will blow by tesla with their built and finish. Same old story we been hearing for years. I’ll believe it when I see it. I’ll give them another 3-5 years to get where tesla is today. By then, tesla cars should be able to drive itself.

my wife drives a Prius prime. What Toyota need to do first is figure out their App! They charging ppl $12 a month or something to do basically nothing. Figure out their app and software , now we talking! Otherwise, good bye to Toyota in 7-10 years.

Exactly...what happens when you run out of battery? Same old arguments against EV that have been parroted around for years.

 

[GoVols!]

Just finish watching his Review. He didn’t mention about tesla SC!

Yea yea yea. Competition is here and catching up. Tesla will be a thing of the past. Legacy auto will blow by tesla with their built and finish. Same old story we been hearing for years. I’ll believe it when I see it. I’ll give them another 3-5 years to get where tesla is today. By then, tesla cars should be able to drive itself.

my wife drives a Prius prime. What Toyota need to do first is figure out their App! They charging ppl $12 a month or something to do basically nothing. Figure out their app and software , now we talking! Otherwise, good bye to Toyota in 7-10 years.

Lol! Toyota is the 1st to 2nd biggest car brand in the world every year and head record profits in 2021. They aren’t going away in 7-10yrs. If anything, they will be more attractive with hybrid plug-ins vs going full ev. Car companies can’t just go all in on Ev and ditch ICE. Like Toyota, car brands have the rest of the World to supply cars. Not many folks are asking for evs in SA,Mexico, Middle East, Africa, Australia, India or Eastern Europe as much as they are staying with ICE vehicles or some form of hybrid. America is a completely different market than most of the populated world. Having been fortunate to travel to many of these places, you’d see why EV is not practical real quick.

 

[GoVols!]

Yeah, I get it. I watched on YT... don't watch news channels at all honestly. I just find it interesting that they haven't done much with EV. Then again Honda hasn't done much either unless you count the GM based prologue that's coming next year.

I want to be clear that I don't necessarily agree with MSNBC...but I think Toyota will be behind in the EV space and this will hurt them long term.

You’re absolutely right, they will be behind evs in America and parts of Europe. Beyond that, the rest do the World isn’t all in on Evs because they can’t. Toyota is very smart and time will tell of course but they are leaning on hybrids more as all EV is not a sustainable solution in most of the world. In America, they will not be apart of the EV community for sometime. For me, I prefer having an all IcE or all soon to be EV as a secondary option as my Land Cruiser isn’t the most practical vehicle for daily errands or short road trips. Lol! What I don’t like about hybrids is the added complications of two systems working together. However, Toyota has made them very reliable as seen by many folks with uber high mileage and very low cost maintenance. My wife’s friend has had her 2016 rav4 hybrid since day one and I believe she has around 290k miles on it. Personally, I never liked it but she loves it. I don’t recall her ever complaining about it, just the basic fluid changes,filters and gas. I foresee car companies already having production issues making EVs on this could actually hurt them financially. It’s one thing to have a particular model sold out for a year or two but majority people grow impatient and buy something else in the meantime and then prices of the EV car they were going to buy has increased in price. That monthly payment they planned for just shot up. Rates will increase two more times this year and many folks on here can absorb it but most of America and the rest of the World don’t live like you and I. Interesting times ahead.

 

[GoVols!]

Exactly...what happens when you run out of battery? Same old arguments against EV that have been parroted around for years.

Toyota app has always sucked. BMW is pretty decent with my previous X7 but from what I’ve seen from the Tesla app, no comparison.