Track Report: Model 3 Performance @ ORP, day 1

[Zippy_EV]

Correspondingly, it's more granular to use rated miles -- 3% difference could be anywhere between 7 miles and 13 depending on rounding and such.

Wow. I've been driving Teslas for years and really thought it was a Guess O Meter based upon lifetime average usage per mile. (The navigation "really* seems to use the lifetime average to estimate ending battery level for a trip segment.) Anyway, thanks for the education!

 

[MP3Mike]

Wow. I've been driving Teslas for years and really thought it was a Guess O Meter based upon lifetime average usage per mile. (The navigation "really* seems to use the lifetime average to estimate ending battery level for a trip segment.) Anyway, thanks for the education!

The navigation system is different, it doesn't use a fixed Kw/mile for the remaining range at destination. it predicts the remaining range by a number of factors. Here is a snippet from the Model 3 manual:

Predicting Energy Usage
When navigating to a destination, Model 3 helps you anticipate your charging needs by calculating the amount of energy that remains when you reach your destination. The calculation is an estimate based on driving style (predicted speed, etc.) and environmental factors (elevation changes, weather, etc.). When you initiate a navigation route, the touchscreen displays this calculation at the bottom of the turn-by-turn direction list. Thereafter, you can display it by touching the area at the bottom of the turn-by-turn direction list.

So they say that weather is even included in that calculation.

 

[MP3Mike]

@brianman Did you make it back from day two at the track? If so, do you have anything additional to report?

 

[brianman]

@brianman Did you make it back from day two at the track? If so, do you have anything additional to report?

All is well with driver and vehicle. Was really tired when I got home last night so I promptly greeted the pillow after having some food. Will try to find time tonite to post some more data.

 

[Lucky13]

Please do. Patiently waiting

 

[brianman]

Track Report: Model 3 Performance @ ORP, day 2

Day 1 was clockwise. Day 2 was counterclockwise.

The event schedule was the same as from day 1. Instead of skipping sessions 3 and 4, I ended up skipping 3 and 6 -- i.e. I got back in time for session 4 but chose not to run session 6 so that my drive back to The Dalles before heading home was easier. Also, I was starting to mentally check out -- which means it's a good time to get off track.

The only pictures I took (sorry) were of the screen so that I could get the (hopefully interesting) numbers. I've recorded that info in Excel form, but apparently both xlsx and xls are not supported by the forum these days. So here's an image:

The highlighted portions are calculated values. Aside from the comments, the rest of the data is from in-car UI.

I generally don't watch the mi/hr (preferring the kW) but since it might be of some interest, on the way back here was that highest mi/hr reported for supercharging:

Previous posts asked about the brake pads. Dan from AR Auto Service (AR Auto) was at the event -- the tall guy in the back of The Team photo -- so I asked him to take a look. He noted that the front pads looked big (lots of pad available) and he didn't measure it, while the back pads were 6-7 mm. I reached out to Tesla service today to try to get some official info and, so far, I've heard that 2 mm is when they recommend replacement.

Regarding top speed -- today I noticed 110mph on the front straight and 95 mph down Valkyrie. Especially while this vehicle is new to me, I wasn't pushing top speed at either of these locations. That said, I did pass 100mph crossing the start line today (roughly mid-way on the front straight) -- i.e. acceleration wasn't an issue.

Miles per session was another question. For today, the two full sessions (as shown above) were 22.8 and 18.3 (10 and 8 laps respectively) -- basically straddling my 20 mi. SWAG from yesterday.


I can't collect any more data (obviously) until the next event but if you have additional questions, fire away in case you remind me of anything I forgot to mention.

 

[MP3Mike]

Previous posts asked about the brake pads. Dan from AR Auto Service (AR Auto) was at the event -- the tall guy in the back of The Team photo -- so I asked him to take a look. He noted that the front pads looked big (lots of pad available) and he didn't measure it, while the back pads were 6-7 mm. I reached out to Tesla service today to try to get some official info and, so far, I've heard that 2 mm is when they recommend replacement.

The pad specs are significantly different on the Performance Upgrade Package brakes. From the August 1st update to the manual:

Interesting that the pads are thicker but you basically get the same amount of usable material.

So on the performance brakes you replace the pads at 8.15 mm. So if your rear ones were at 6-7mm they are past 100% worn out. (Assuming that the manual is correct.)

 

[brianman]

Eep. Guess I should have Tesla take a look then. :|

If 1 track day uses up the rear brake pads (I didn't even check after day 2 yet), this'll get expensive fast.

@MountainPass - Any thoughts on this brake pad wear issue?

 

[GTIceman]

Eep. Guess I should have Tesla take a look then. :|

If 1 track day uses up the rear brake pads (I didn't even check after day 2 yet), this'll get expensive fast.

@MountainPass - Any thoughts on this brake pad wear issue?

Please report back as to what Tesla says about the rears as I agree. I am hoping Track Mode will limit the wear.

 

[Zippy_EV]

Curious if you disabled the parking brake every time the vehicle was stopped with hot brakes? It would also be interesting to learn approximate rotor temps immediately after a session.
The Porsche club wants automatic emergency braking turned off (pretty sure cars that cannot turn it off cannot participate.)
Eventually we will need track mode on when it becomes available.

I was thinking I'd need some sort of pilot style checklist on a Post-It for all these steps.

 

[GTIceman]

Curious if you disabled the parking brake every time the vehicle was stopped with hot brakes? It would also be interesting to learn approximate rotor temps immediately after a session.
The Porsche club wants automatic emergency braking turned off (pretty sure cars that cannot turn it off cannot participate.)
Eventually we will need track mode on when it becomes available.

I was thinking I'd need some sort of pilot style checklist on a Post-It for all these steps.

All good points, I wasn't thinking about the parking brake in these cars.

BMW CCA also requires that all lane, driving, and braking assistance systems be deactivated or you can't participate.

With the number of things we need to worry about right now a checklist would be good.

 

[brianman]

(1) Curious if you disabled the parking brake every time the vehicle was stopped with hot brakes?
(2) The Porsche club wants automatic emergency braking turned off (pretty sure cars that cannot turn it off cannot participate.)

(1) No, but in the final lap I take it very easy on friction brakes (zero if I do it well).
(2) I turn off AEB before every session. Yes, it's annoying that it turns itself back on.

 

[brianman]

Had service appointment yesterday.

The paperwork response:

Concern: Client reports that according to owner's manual, his brakes are in need of
replacement. Client does note that vehicle has been tracked, but is concerned over quick
wear of brake pads. Shop Supervisor investigating brake pad specifications for accuracy -
please inspect brake pads and advise.

Corrections: Brake Discs and Calipers General Diagnosis

Shop Foreman inspected the brakes of the customer's car and compared them to other
Model 3 vehicles. Customer's brakes were found to have normal wear due to racing the
vehicle on track and are also found to be in good condition. Recommend customer to
monitor the brake pad thickness as they continue to use car on the track as the brake pads
will wear faster than usual.

Technician also found the suspension and drive performance to be operating as designed.
Technician notes the outer edges of the tires are showing cords and will affect the
driving performance of the vehicle.

Some notes:

• "racing" was incorrect (event was lapping/cooperative, not racing)
• The "compared to other Model 3 vehicles" included the Performance test drive vehicles that had 10s of miles on them.
• I was told the typical "you need to replace your brakes" (or "you have racing brakes that aren't warm yet don't you") sound is expected when the pads need replacement so that should be another cue, i.e. don't stress before that too much.
• Hopefully the "investigating" will trigger an update to the owner's manual.
• I was told the tread remaining on fronts and back were 7mm and 8mm (I forget which was which), so from a tread perspective it's fine.
• The "rounding" of the edges is somewhat normal (from what I've seen on S) whenever hitting the track; the cords not so much. :|
• The "suspension and drive performance" comment was after a test drive by the technician by my request. The other driver in the household noted "she doesn't feel as tight" after I got back from my trip (followed by something like "did you break her?"). I suspect it's the shaved tire edges that makes it feel less "crisp" than before.

 

[e-FTW]

Great reports, thank you!

The tires showing cords at the edge is a little concerning.

 

[brianman]

The tires showing cords at the edge is a little concerning.

Indeed.

 

[Zippy_EV]

Indeed.

View attachment 332635

View attachment 332636

Had service appointment yesterday.

The paperwork response:


Some notes:

• "racing" was incorrect (event was lapping/cooperative, not racing)
• The "compared to other Model 3 vehicles" included the Performance test drive vehicles that had 10s of miles on them.
• I was told the typical "you need to replace your brakes" (or "you have racing brakes that aren't warm yet don't you") sound is expected when the pads need replacement so that should be another cue, i.e. don't stress before that too much.
• Hopefully the "investigating" will trigger an update to the owner's manual.
• I was told the tread remaining on fronts and back were 7mm and 8mm (I forget which was which), so from a tread perspective it's fine.
• The "rounding" of the edges is somewhat normal (from what I've seen on S) whenever hitting the track; the cords not so much. :|
• The "suspension and drive performance" comment was after a test drive by the technician by my request. The other driver in the household noted "she doesn't feel as tight" after I got back from my trip (followed by something like "did you break her?"). I suspect it's the shaved tire edges that makes it feel less "crisp" than before.

That vagueness in turns is exactly the feeling of a corded tire. The first time I corded a tire I thought something was wrong with the vehicle suspension. Turns in one direction felt loose and vague but the turns in the other direction were still tight as I had only corded one side of the fronts.

 

[Daniel in SD]

From what I've seen Pilot Sports are horrible autocross tires so I'd imagine that they would be even worse track tires. They're great on the street but they have super soft compound on the edges that doesn't hold up well to heat. It seems like any tire is going to be short lived since there is no way to adjust the camber on the Model 3 to a more appropriate track alignment.
Those tires should be replaced. I'd recommend getting a second set of wheels with more appropriate tires.

 

[invalid]

Holy crap those tires wore fast. Maybe just need some negative camber?

I’ve heard the Michelin PSS wear fast on the track. I have them on my daily driver, but never tracked it. 4S may be similar. However I love the PC2s and have found them to wear very well.

 

[brianman]

That vagueness in turns is exactly the feeling of a corded tire. The first time I corded a tire I thought something was wrong with the vehicle suspension. Turns in one direction felt loose and vague but the turns in the other direction were still tight as I had only corded one side of the fronts.

Clarification:
Are you agreeing with my suspicion in the last bullet or saying something different? Just want to make sure I'm understanding. Thanks.

 

[brianman]

From what I've seen Pilot Sports are horrible autocross tires so I'd imagine that they would be even worse track tires. They're great on the street but they have super soft compound on the edges that doesn't hold up well to heat. It seems like any tire is going to be short lived since there is no way to adjust the camber on the Model 3 to a more appropriate track alignment.
Those tires should be replaced. I'd recommend getting a second set of wheels with more appropriate tires.

I'm rolling the dice (regarding fitting properly on with the upgraded brakes) hoping this will make a nice second set:

• TST.1885.1885.MB.M3.DWS06.PPU
• 18

If they arrive soon, I have some time to decide what to replace on the 20s. If not, it becomes more urgent.

I've been using all seasons (Michelin A/S 3+) on the S (daily, autocross, and lapping) as a compromise for bad weather and slower wear. In the past I really enjoyed Michelin Pilot Super Sports but I was burning through them too quick for comfort/budget.