Traffic aware cruise control - initial set speed?

[EVnut]

I haven't tried this yet, but wouldn't setting the Cruise to "Absolute" and then down to "20" effectively do what you-all have been asking? Since you probably won't be engaging cruise when you're going under 20MPH, then the system will choose the current speed of the vehicle?

This has been discussed in this thread. And while it is a somewhat reasonable work-around, there are still several issues with it. First, I assume that you mean setting the "speed warning" because there is no way to set "the cruise" in advance. The speed warning controls the cruise control speed for no reason whatsoever.

There are many (apparently... they've chimed in here) people who turn on TACC when they are stopped, or in stop-and go traffic for the express reason that when traffic clears up, the car will accelerate back to the speed limit or the set speed. This work around defeats that "feature."

Next is that this means that the speed warning cannot be used as an effective.... speed warning. So why have a speed warning?

And finally.. this is still random and clunky. Cruise control and speed warning should not be connected. And cruise control should never immediately accelerate when set. If nothing else there needs to be a check box to force TACC to initially set at the current speed no matter what the speed warning says.

 

[EVnut]

I think another potential solution would be to allow us adjust the "Set" speed with the right scroll wheel before engaging TACC or Autopilot. Right now (on Model 3) if TACC/Autopilot is OFF then rotating the right scroll wheel does nothing. Let the right scroll wheel adjust the set speed up or down BEFORE engaging TACC.

Mike

Yes! Also discussed in this thread. I agree... default should be to set TACC at current speed. If you want something different, you spin the dial. You could even *gasp* first set TACC and THEN spin the dial. But the car should never initially accelerate at TACC activation.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I agree somewhat, normally, I'd say that a car shouldn't accelerate when you engage cruise control however, there's some precedent for this, 'resume' on a regular cruise control and, S/X cruise control does, depending upon how you engage it, either set at road speed or set at guesstimated posted speed. With Tesla already pushing the auto envelope, I'd say keep it, it's interface is similar to the indicator stalk action so safely familiar.

For me, the option of switching it off altogether, including TACC distance sensing, would be bliss - no more jarring, random slow down/speed up because it thinks it's seen a squirrel! I had an i3 which had the equivalent of AP 0.5 from MobileEye, it was too unreliable and had an option where if you press-hold the distance set button it would cut off and revert to old-school cruse control where I could set it at whatever speed I wished - bliss.

Sorry, didn't read all 7 pages (yet) ... but I wanted to chime in in case nobody else has yet ... it doesn't accelerate when you engage cruire control.

It only accelerates when you engage cruise control AND THEN let go of the accelerator pedal.

Until you let go of the pedal it maintains your speed that you are controlling and continue to control for as long as you like with the pedal.

If you engage cruise control AND THEN let go of the pedal, it will accelerate to your set speed if that is higher.

To avoid this, if you don't like the set speed it chose, change it before you let go of the pedal and forfeit control of speed to the car.

1. Engage TACC or AP with the stalk single or double-press
2. Look at the set speed, see if you like it
3. If you don't like it, change it.
4. Now release your foot off the accelerator pedal and relinquish control of speed to the car.

 

[darth_vad3r]

What I'd like to see is allowing the scroll wheel to adjust the set speed before engaging TACC. If I'm on a 25 mph road but the car thinks the limit is 35, I want to be able to change it. In fact, turning the scroll wheel when TACC is not engaged does nothing. I'd have to engage TACC and immediately and quickly spin the scroll wheel down.

See my post above. You can adjust the set speed before letting the car control the speed. You do this in between the stalk activation of TACC and you letting go of the accelerator pedal.

1. Activate TACC or AP with single or double-stalk press down
2. Choose your set speed if you don't like what the car chose
3. Let go of the pedal

 

[EVnut]

Sorry, didn't read all 7 pages (yet) ... but I wanted to chime in in case nobody else has yet ... it doesn't accelerate when you engage cruire control.

It only accelerates when you engage cruise control AND THEN let go of the accelerator pedal.

Until you let go of the pedal it maintains your speed that you are controlling and continue to control for as long as you like with the pedal.

If you engage cruise control AND THEN let go of the pedal, it will accelerate to your set speed if that is higher.

To avoid this, if you don't like the set speed it chose, change it before you let go of the pedal and forfeit control of speed to the car.

1. Engage TACC or AP with the stalk single or double-press
2. Look at the set speed, see if you like it
3. If you don't like it, change it.
4. Now release your foot off the accelerator pedal and relinquish control of speed to the car.

I'm afraid that I can't quite figure this out. What does "release your foot off the accelerator pedal" mean?

If I have my foot on the accel pedal, driving at 50 mph, and I engage TACC or AP while my speed offset is set to 75 mph, the car will accelerate up to 75 mph immediately... with my foot on the pedal. There is no changing the speed to something I like before the car takes off. If the car wishes to be faster than my foot position, having my foot on the pedal does nothing to prevent the acceleration up to it's chosen speed.

*caveat: Unless something has changed in the last couple of weeks since I've done this.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I'm afraid that I can't quite figure this out. What does "release your foot off the accelerator pedal" mean?

If I have my foot on the accel pedal, driving at 50 mph, and I engage TACC or AP while my speed offset is set to 75 mph, the car will accelerate up to 75 mph immediately... with my foot on the pedal. There is no changing the speed to something I like before the car takes off. If the car wishes to be faster than my foot position, having my foot on the pedal does nothing to prevent the acceleration up to it's chosen speed.

*caveat: Unless something has changed in the last couple of weeks since I've done this.

By release I just mean opposite of press. My car doesn’t adjust the speed on its own u til I let go of the ‘gas’ myself.

Weird that yours acts different. What car model / software version?

I’m in a Model 3, and it’s been this way for me with 2019.12.1, 2019.8.5 and whatever I stated with before that in March.

Do you double press all the way down, or just to the first stop on the stalk? I do the latter typically. I wonder if that makes a difference, or some other settings.

 

[darth_vad3r]

By release I just mean opposite of press. My car doesn’t adjust the speed on its own u til I let go of the ‘gas’ myself.

Weird that yours acts different. What car model / software version?

I’m in a Model 3, and it’s been this way for me with 2019.12.1, 2019.8.5 and whatever I stated with before that in March.

Do you double press all the way down, or just to the first stop on the stalk? I do the latter typically. I wonder if that makes a difference, or some other settings.

Follow up ... I don't know what to tell you. I went for a test drive and tried various scenarios, TACC, AP, speed limit warning off, display, chime, absolute and relative speeds ... no matter how I engage TACC/AP with a single or double half or full press, the car doesn’t change speed to the desired set speed until AFTER I let go of the ‘gas’ pedal.

The current manual version says:
“Release the accelerator pedal to allow Traffic- Aware Cruise Control to maintain your cruising speed.”

That matches my experience. I’ve had the Model 3 Standard Plus since March, so it’s possible the behaviour used to be different and the complaints here got them to change the behaviour, but the only way I could get the car to “unintendedly” accelerate was to intentionally let go of the pedal

e.g.
1. Driving 45 km/hr, speed limit sign “60”, set point in *grey* circle is 72 (based on +12 offset set).
2. Engage TACC or AP with single or double half or full down press. Blue circle now shows 72, but I’m still going 45 (keeping pedal at same exact position).
3. Continuing to keep pedal where it is, I can maintain 45 indefinitely even though blue circle shows 72. If I depress a bit I can speed up to say 50 or 55. During this whole time I can use the knob to adjust set speed from 72 up or down. Let’s say I want to not speed, I set it to 59.
4. Let go of gas pedal and car accelerates to set speed.

I’m in a Model 3 Standard Range Plus on 2019.12.1.2, but it’s always worked this way for me IIRC from 12.8.5 at least that I remember.

I'm afraid that I can't quite figure this out. What does "release your foot off the accelerator pedal" mean?

If I have my foot on the accel pedal, driving at 50 mph, and I engage TACC or AP while my speed offset is set to 75 mph, the car will accelerate up to 75 mph immediately... with my foot on the pedal. There is no changing the speed to something I like before the car takes off. If the car wishes to be faster than my foot position, having my foot on the pedal does nothing to prevent the acceleration up to it's chosen speed.

*caveat: Unless something has changed in the last couple of weeks since I've done this.

 

[EVnut]

Well, clearly I need to go out and try it once my wife lets me have the car again... Seems that I can't doubt you any longer now that you've tested and confirmed!

I have to know.... In your example of driving a steady 45 when you engage TACC for a faster speed... you say that you can press the pedal more and go a bit faster (and TACC doesn't shoot you up to the set speed). But what if instead you want to go just one km/hr slower? If you ease your foot off the pedal just the tiniest bit, does the car THEN accelerate to your set speed? That would sure be odd... but sounds like exactly what you say... or does your foot need to be 100% off the pedal?

 

[daniel]

I think his point is that once you've engaged TACC or AP, with your foot still on the pedal so the car does not accelerate, you can then use the scroll wheel to lower your set speed. You only need to hold your foot on the pedal long enough to flick the scroll wheel down so the car does not shoot ahead like a bat out of hell.

I wanted to try it this morning, but never had conditions for it. So the above is just my guess.

 

[darth_vad3r]

Well, clearly I need to go out and try it once my wife lets me have the car again... Seems that I can't doubt you any longer now that you've tested and confirmed!

I have to know.... In your example of driving a steady 45 when you engage TACC for a faster speed... you say that you can press the pedal more and go a bit faster (and TACC doesn't shoot you up to the set speed). But what if instead you want to go just one km/hr slower? If you ease your foot off the pedal just the tiniest bit, does the car THEN accelerate to your set speed? That would sure be odd... but sounds like exactly what you say... or does your foot need to be 100% off the pedal?

LOL I actually anticipated this question and didn't think to try this during my test (I only thought about it as I was writing up the post and was considering using "% pedal pressed" in my notes like "20% = 45km/hr 25% = 50, etc..." then I realized I didn't consciously try to slow down or release just a tad to see what would happen.

It was not difficult for me to maintain the exact same speed for a considerably long period of time though, like 5s, 10s way longer ... well enough time to adjust the scroll wheel up or down before releasing the pedal even just 1% or fully (whichever would actually trigger AP/TACC taking over).

 

[EVnut]

I think his point is that once you've engaged TACC or AP, with your foot still on the pedal so the car does not accelerate, you can then use the scroll wheel to lower your set speed. You only need to hold your foot on the pedal long enough to flick the scroll wheel down so the car does not shoot ahead like a bat out of hell.

I wanted to try it this morning, but never had conditions for it. So the above is just my guess.

Right.... but with foot steady on the pedal, you engage TACC, you sneeze and your foot pulls back 1mm, then the car goes shooting up to the set speed?

Fun to guess. One day I may even try it for myself. I need to find somebody who has a Model 3.

 

[darth_vad3r]

I think his point is that once you've engaged TACC or AP, with your foot still on the pedal so the car does not accelerate, you can then use the scroll wheel to lower your set speed. You only need to hold your foot on the pedal long enough to flick the scroll wheel down so the car does not shoot ahead like a bat out of hell.

I wanted to try it this morning, but never had conditions for it. So the above is just my guess.

Yep, that's my main point.

Spokane ... do you follow the Spokane Chiefs? Cheering for the Vancouver Giants to represent the West or cheering against them after they eliminated the Chiefs? (I'm a Giants fan)

 

[EVnut]

releasing the pedal even just 1% or fully (whichever would actually trigger AP/TACC taking over).

Right! There's the crux of my question of course. Does TACC speed take over when the pedal is released by 1%, or fully off? The odd thing to consider is that unless it engages at 1% release, the effect of releasing the pedal incrementally will be slow, slow, slow, slow... BAM! off to the races.

 

[darth_vad3r]

Right! There's the crux of my question of course. Does TACC speed take over when the pedal is released by 1%, or fully off? The odd thing to consider is that unless it engages at 1% release, the effect of releasing the pedal incrementally will be slow, slow, slow, slow... BAM! off to the races.

Ya, this is making me thing you can't slow down with modulating the gas pedal once you've half-engaged TACC/AP.

I'm saying "half-engaged" here to say you've engaged it with the stalk, but have not yet released control of the 'gas' pedal.

... but you don't have to be "off to the races" if you are doing this to give yourself time to scroll and choose a speed ... it will be "off to desired speed" (which could be lower).

Like I said, it was not at all difficult to keep my exact speed. There's some static friction on the pedal that makes it easy to keep the same position, so you have plenty of time to set your desired speed. Really you should be able to do this within 2 seconds and then release the pedal.

1. With pedal at X% depressed, engage TACC or AP on the stalk with single or double press (half or full press)
2. With pedal still at X% depressed, scroll wheel up or down if set speed isn't what you want
3. Release pedal.

This whole sequence takes 2-3s tops ... it's easy to maintain pedal at exact X% you are already at for very long periods of time. The risk of sneezing in step 2 seems low

You could just as easily sneeze at any other time and PRESS the pedal accidentally anyways

 

[EVnut]

I don't wish to beat a dead horse. And yet....

1. I have no problem holding the pedal steady. I fully understand that it can be done, because I do it daily.
2. My questions are merely hypothetical and amusing for me to consider while my car is not home.
3. All of this is still merely a clumsy work-around for TACC that should always engage at the current speed. If you want MORE speed, then you can and should reset. The people who don't want it to accelerate should not be tasked with dialing it down, or bastardizing the speed warning setting as I have done.
4. The car will not go slower if your speed offset is lower than your current speed. In that situation TACC sets at the current speed... as should always happen regardless of your speed warning setting. This is how I have personally worked around the defect of the car always wanting to achieve the speed set in the "warning" section.
5. My sneeze example resulted in 1 mm of pedal travel. If I were going 30 when I set TACC... and before I could adjust speed I sneezed and removed pedal pressure by 1 mm... and my speed warning was set to 80, And the car took off, this is a big deal. If I sneeze and pressed the pedal 1 mm, this is not a big deal.

OK, I think that covers it. Waiting for the car to come home and the Warriors game to start.

 

[rickdogg82]

This works.

1. With pedal at X% depressed, engage TACC or AP on the stalk with single or double press (half or full press)
2. With pedal still at X% depressed, scroll wheel up or down if set speed isn't what you want
3. Release pedal.

 

[EVnut]

This works.

And what constitutes "release the pedal?" 1%? 100%?

 

[darth_vad3r]

And what constitutes "release the pedal?" 1%? 100%?

Tried this again and paid more attention (since this isn’t typically something I do for a long amount of time to notice otherwise ) ... you have to fully lift off pedal before AP/TACC will accelerate beyond your present speed.

So if you start at 40% pedal = 45km/hr, you can increase speed by depressing further, or maintain speed by releasing pedal any amount you want ... it’s like you’ve set cruise at your current speed. From X% pedal pressed down to 0.1% pedal press.

Once you fully release it accelerates (or decelerates) to your higher (or lower) set point.

 

[rickdogg82]

And what constitutes "release the pedal?" 1%? 100%?

If feels like you have to release it all the way but will need a longer stretch and multiple tests to verify.

 

[daniel]

Yep, that's my main point.

Spokane ... do you follow the Spokane Chiefs? Cheering for the Vancouver Giants to represent the West or cheering against them after they eliminated the Chiefs? (I'm a Giants fan)

I don't follow sports. I love being active in nature. Hiking, paddling, etc. Watching other people play games is one of the most hideously boring things I've ever done. Honestly, I don't even know what game the Chiefs play.

And I need to change my profile. After about a dozen years in Spokane, I'm now living in Maui.

... the gas pedal...

There is no gas pedal in my car. I'm totally baffled about why you keep calling it that. The go pedal in my car has nothing to do with gas.