There were a number of public charge points in Morzine and Les Gets that you could get an overnight charge at but we were lucky enough to have a driveway/parking spot beside the chalet to run a cable out of the bathroom window to top up to 100%. The worst bit of the journey for us was making sure you had enough charge after you got to British soil to make it to the next supercharger as the Eurotunnel queue was huge and we could only manage a 10min top up before rushing for our train.
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Trip to the Alps
- Thread starter WannabeOwner
- Start date
stonecoldrmw
Member
I wonder, would you be able to stick it on charge maybe the day before you leave, intermittently, with a view to gradually warming the battery cells to boost the range to the best possible when charging? Good luck with the trip - definitely envious!
ACarneiro
Active Member
Well, it was 21° in Morzine today (16° up in the slopes in Avoriaz)
Don’t worry about the battery getting cold
Don’t worry about the battery getting cold
I don't think that will work. The worst case for Winter is "travelling salesman", stop for an hour and the battery will get cold and thus driver incurs set-off-energy-penalty each time (whereas on a continuous long trip the battery stays warm, so overall Winter-penalty on long trips is, say, 10% with temperatures around 5C)
I collect aged relative for a meal during the week, that is part of my commute home, so car / battery lovely and warm. He's only here 2 hours at most before I take him home. Temperature typically nodding 10C some nights ... but I have reduced Regen for the whole 20 minute round trip. (Something I have noticed about the MS LR ... its a big battery, and it takes a long time to heat up in normal driving, but it cools down plenty fast
)So i think cold climate charging needs to be "continuous prior to departure" ... what I am a bit sceptical of is whether 13AMPs has enough juice to warm battery, and charge it. When I had the MS P before I would have put it on "Launch Prep" and that heated the battery ... might use that as "Couldn't afford not to have it" excuse for getting a P again next time
stonecoldrmw
Member
I'm curious because I know that at some point, I will do the same trip so keen to know how you get on with it.I don't think that will work. The worst case for Winter is "travelling salesman", stop for an hour and the battery will get cold and thus driver incurs set-off-energy-penalty each time (whereas on a continuous long trip the battery stays warm, so overall Winter-penalty on long trips is, say, 10% with temperatures around 5C)
I collect aged relative for a meal during the week, that is part of my commute home, so car / battery lovely and warm. He's only here 2 hours at most before I take him home. Temperature typically nodding 10C some nights ... but I have reduced Regen for the whole 20 minute round trip. (Something I have noticed about the MS LR ... its a big battery, and it takes a long time to heat up in normal driving, but it cools down plenty fast
So i think cold climate charging needs to be "continuous prior to departure" ... what I am a bit sceptical of is whether 13AMPs has enough juice to warm battery, and charge it. When I had the MS P before I would have put it on "Launch Prep" and that heated the battery ... might use that as "Couldn't afford not to have it" excuse for getting a P again next time
I'll report back and let you know hoe I got on. I've posted a question in the Norway forum to ask the best way to pre-condition if only 13 AMPs are available.
TRIP REPORT
Some stuff to report, and a couple of funnies. But basically it was a no brainer, which is how it should be of course.
I left armed with Spreadsheets of how much charge I needed to depart each Supercharger, courtesy of A Better Route Planner which I had set to 5C and 5 MPH wind. Also what SoC I should have at intervening Superchargers, in case I was "critical" at that point and could top-up. Actually I don't think that was necessary at all, using the dashboard "Energy Graph" to show on-arrival prediction I could easily slow-down or add a stop if range became critical.
I took the car to have the Winter Tyres fitted a few days before - not got around to it, nor needed it, this Winter. The guys there laughed, but we then had heavy snow the following day so hopefully they were thinking "How did he know that?"
Dunno if the Winter Tyres were more thirsty than the standard ones, but we had torrential rain most of the way there, and worse on the way back. Maybe they shifted the water more efficiently than Standard tyres would have done? The extra consumption was not as much as I would have expected
Rather than aiming to arrive with 10% at the next charger I preferred to charge to 70% (unless more required) assuming that charging is roughly linear to 70% and a bit slower to 80% and then much slower above that.
On the way out we stopped overnight (which netted me 15% - 100% "free" (in terms of time), and then at a Supermarket for a full set of self catering supplies - there is a huge Carrefour right next to the Beaune Supercharger 62% - 94%, so that was "free time" too.
On the way back we did the trip in one day, so no "free" overnight stop, but our lunch took an hour and a "free" 16% - 94%, and then we had 10 minutes wait at the Tunnel so I suppose that 22% - 24% was "free" too.
Upshot: well worth planning-in any "free" stops like that. Limits the hotels to ones that have charging ... but we saved over £100 each way on fuel so treated ourselves on the proceeds ...
Folkestone : I figured 20 minutes was long enough to get from Charger to Train. We got stopped for swab-check, but I don't think that added much delay, but we were first in lane for the next crossing, so probably need to leave 30 minutes from Charger to Train Departure time. Pity as being able to accurately judge maximising charger dwell time is obviously a benefit. (Better on way back as there are two chargers at Flexiplus lounge, and they are "air side" so only need to allow 20 minutes and nothing to add delay).
Urvillers is shared charging for North and South traffic. However, the charger placement "over at the far right corner" of the car park means that care is needed when leaving to travel SOUTH as you have to go back into the car park towards the facilities, and then double back, and only then find the right exit. On the way through the car park to get to the charger look out for the sign (to Reims) and then it will be obvious when you leave. Its all signposted, but in the way that I find much of their signage : obvious to the French and obtuse to Brits. When going NORTH the sign to CALAIS is a bit more obvious, but not much (drive through the gap towards the lorry park). Looking at Google Street View the area where Chargers have been installed was the "exit route" towards Reims, and the service roads have been remodelled/bodged as a cut-through, which explains the convoluted rigmarole.
Châteauvillain got in a muddle there too. It was on my list to stop at (on return NORTH leg). Clicked on it and pressed NAVIGATE TO. When we were some distance away I could see that the "route line" was going past the charger and doubling back, so I realised I must have pressed "wrong carriageway" and picked the South Supercharger instead. I couldn't figure out any way to find the North one (**), so assumed [wrongly] that there wasn't one. So I put CALAIS into SatNav and it choose Troyes to recharge. We had enough spare to reach Troyes, but my Planning notes had Troyes marked as "not directly on route", So I just shrugged and said Oh Well! (we'd had a week in France by this time!! ...)
I was getting tired and we decided to swap drivers and I said "Lets do that at Châteauvillain in case the charging is mixed" (given that it didn't actually say NORTH / SOUTH in the Supercharger name). Sure enough we could see the SOUTH chargers on the other side of the concrete barrier, and then we happened upon the ones on our NORTH side, so we charged there instead of Troyes. It turns out that the North / South services have different names ... no indication of North / South, so that may well catch other people out too. I suppose if you just put CALAIS into SatNav you will at least get Superchargers on the right side of the road!, except I'm not sure Troyes was the better choice of stop given the detour off the Autoroute.
South = Aire de Châteauvillain - Val Marnay
North = Aire de Châteauvillain - Orges
Eurotunnel Coquelles. Charged at Flexiplus Lounge. That is "air side", so easier to guesstimate time to platform/loading and thus charge until the last moment. My spreadsheet had minimum charge levels for Maidstone, Stanstead and Home but I had decided I was better not to miss a train so long as I could make at least Maidstone (also, as always, charging nearest-to-home is best as easier to reliably predict required charge, whereas further from destination needs more "contingency"). I've done some sums subsequently and I think that is the wrong approach. As it turned out I got the last stall at Maidstone so had to pair, and then cars were waiting behind me.
Maidstone is 7 minutes In/Out (get off motorway, get to Supercharger, get into/out of the awkward stalls, and back to motorway). Missing a Chunnel Train costs 20 minutes, so 13 minutes @ Maidstone charging and you are evens, and if already in a stall at Flexiplus then that avoids risk of all-stalls-full etc. etc. at Maidstone ... and Flexiplus lounge has amenities, whereas there is nothing at Maidstone, less so in the pouring rain we had ...
Mountain descent regen
Not heard of this before, so not sure what to make of it.
One day we decided to drive round to an adjacent valley. Weather was perfect, fresh fall of snow, we set off for the 30 minute drive half and hour before the lifts opened ... and avoided all the crush getting "up and over" by lift. Also had the car to mooch around après ski, and not have to rush back on last lift. But this was unplanned, so car was "cold".
Car was in garage, dash said 2.5C outside.
I had absolutely no Regen, so used friction brakes all the way down. That is far worse than a low gear in an ICE! On the way up the other side I realised I still had Range Mode on from the journey out, and turned that off, but I only had a small amount of regen by the time we got back up to the top. (Maybe Range Mode=Off would have given me some Regen sooner on descent?)
So basically on the way down left with 80% and got to the bottom with 80%
On the way up used 80% - 65% for 11.5 miles, and only got a bit of regen back by the destination. Battery Heater didn't come on, temperature was 0C in the valley and -5C at destination.
Parked in underground car park, and for the return I put the climate on (in the car, not APP - dunno if any difference) for 45 minutes whilst we wandered around the shops. That bought the battery heater on for 30 minutes and reduced SoC 64%-60% (stayed at 60% for the further 15 minutes whilst maintaining climate only). Outside temperature was 1.0C
Set off with about 2/3 regen, but as went down the mountain that reduced to about 1/3rd Gained from 60% - 63% but some friction brakes required. Battery heater did not come on.
For the journey home I charged for 1h45m before departure (battery heater came on, when I put Climate on, for 8 minutes during that). Climate on for total 50 minutes before departure (reduced SoC by 2% even though plugged in @ 10AMPs)
Set off with full regen - although if flashed on and off 2/3rds for a bit, and then stayed on at 2/3rds for the rest of the decent. Not sure what would be necessary to get 100% Regen for the whole of the descent??
Battery heater did not come on during the journey. Temperature was 5-6C for the first hour, then 10C for the rest of the day, and in the evening fell to 5C. Range Mode was off for the whole descent (need to remember to turn it back on for the journey, if you find it useful)
If you can be bothered, it might be worth selecting PARK momentarily at the bottom when changing from Decent to Ascent/Flat, so that TeslaFi records it as two drives (or maybe there is a way to SPLIT a drive) for separate Wh/Mile etc..
Good shout @Mr Miserable
3 x Tesla Chargers, one more than Tesla Website ... but that was the only one working! Plenty of faded-glory in evidence, but of course that is normal-for-France. (Trip adviser: "Some guests commented maintenance could be improved" ... no idea what they were expecting differently dans la France!!)
Restaurant was excellent (its got a Michelin whatsit). Pudding had the red love-heart decoration superglued to the plate in some crafty way such that it remained after thinking I had scraped every last bit into my bulging stomach. Not sure what the 3 suits at the table next to us were going to make of that, sadly we were gone before they got to that bit!
Car charged overnight at 72 AMP (presumably an M3 would not utilise all of that, but still plenty enough hours during the night of course)
I set the limit to 90%, and then increased it the following morning to 100% an hour before we left, and put on Climate 15 minutes before departure (6C outside)
Some stuff to report, and a couple of funnies. But basically it was a no brainer, which is how it should be of course.
I left armed with Spreadsheets of how much charge I needed to depart each Supercharger, courtesy of A Better Route Planner which I had set to 5C and 5 MPH wind. Also what SoC I should have at intervening Superchargers, in case I was "critical" at that point and could top-up. Actually I don't think that was necessary at all, using the dashboard "Energy Graph" to show on-arrival prediction I could easily slow-down or add a stop if range became critical.
I took the car to have the Winter Tyres fitted a few days before - not got around to it, nor needed it, this Winter. The guys there laughed, but we then had heavy snow the following day so hopefully they were thinking "How did he know that?"
Dunno if the Winter Tyres were more thirsty than the standard ones, but we had torrential rain most of the way there, and worse on the way back. Maybe they shifted the water more efficiently than Standard tyres would have done? The extra consumption was not as much as I would have expected
Rather than aiming to arrive with 10% at the next charger I preferred to charge to 70% (unless more required) assuming that charging is roughly linear to 70% and a bit slower to 80% and then much slower above that.
On the way out we stopped overnight (which netted me 15% - 100% "free" (in terms of time), and then at a Supermarket for a full set of self catering supplies - there is a huge Carrefour right next to the Beaune Supercharger 62% - 94%, so that was "free time" too.
On the way back we did the trip in one day, so no "free" overnight stop, but our lunch took an hour and a "free" 16% - 94%, and then we had 10 minutes wait at the Tunnel so I suppose that 22% - 24% was "free" too.
Upshot: well worth planning-in any "free" stops like that. Limits the hotels to ones that have charging ... but we saved over £100 each way on fuel so treated ourselves on the proceeds ...
Folkestone : I figured 20 minutes was long enough to get from Charger to Train. We got stopped for swab-check, but I don't think that added much delay, but we were first in lane for the next crossing, so probably need to leave 30 minutes from Charger to Train Departure time. Pity as being able to accurately judge maximising charger dwell time is obviously a benefit. (Better on way back as there are two chargers at Flexiplus lounge, and they are "air side" so only need to allow 20 minutes and nothing to add delay).
Urvillers is shared charging for North and South traffic. However, the charger placement "over at the far right corner" of the car park means that care is needed when leaving to travel SOUTH as you have to go back into the car park towards the facilities, and then double back, and only then find the right exit. On the way through the car park to get to the charger look out for the sign (to Reims) and then it will be obvious when you leave. Its all signposted, but in the way that I find much of their signage : obvious to the French and obtuse to Brits. When going NORTH the sign to CALAIS is a bit more obvious, but not much (drive through the gap towards the lorry park). Looking at Google Street View the area where Chargers have been installed was the "exit route" towards Reims, and the service roads have been remodelled/bodged as a cut-through, which explains the convoluted rigmarole.
Châteauvillain got in a muddle there too. It was on my list to stop at (on return NORTH leg). Clicked on it and pressed NAVIGATE TO. When we were some distance away I could see that the "route line" was going past the charger and doubling back, so I realised I must have pressed "wrong carriageway" and picked the South Supercharger instead. I couldn't figure out any way to find the North one (**), so assumed [wrongly] that there wasn't one. So I put CALAIS into SatNav and it choose Troyes to recharge. We had enough spare to reach Troyes, but my Planning notes had Troyes marked as "not directly on route", So I just shrugged and said Oh Well! (we'd had a week in France by this time!! ...)
I was getting tired and we decided to swap drivers and I said "Lets do that at Châteauvillain in case the charging is mixed" (given that it didn't actually say NORTH / SOUTH in the Supercharger name). Sure enough we could see the SOUTH chargers on the other side of the concrete barrier, and then we happened upon the ones on our NORTH side, so we charged there instead of Troyes. It turns out that the North / South services have different names ... no indication of North / South, so that may well catch other people out too. I suppose if you just put CALAIS into SatNav you will at least get Superchargers on the right side of the road!, except I'm not sure Troyes was the better choice of stop given the detour off the Autoroute.
South = Aire de Châteauvillain - Val Marnay
North = Aire de Châteauvillain - Orges
Eurotunnel Coquelles. Charged at Flexiplus Lounge. That is "air side", so easier to guesstimate time to platform/loading and thus charge until the last moment. My spreadsheet had minimum charge levels for Maidstone, Stanstead and Home but I had decided I was better not to miss a train so long as I could make at least Maidstone (also, as always, charging nearest-to-home is best as easier to reliably predict required charge, whereas further from destination needs more "contingency"). I've done some sums subsequently and I think that is the wrong approach. As it turned out I got the last stall at Maidstone so had to pair, and then cars were waiting behind me.
Maidstone is 7 minutes In/Out (get off motorway, get to Supercharger, get into/out of the awkward stalls, and back to motorway). Missing a Chunnel Train costs 20 minutes, so 13 minutes @ Maidstone charging and you are evens, and if already in a stall at Flexiplus then that avoids risk of all-stalls-full etc. etc. at Maidstone ... and Flexiplus lounge has amenities, whereas there is nothing at Maidstone, less so in the pouring rain we had ...
Mountain descent regen
Not heard of this before, so not sure what to make of it.
One day we decided to drive round to an adjacent valley. Weather was perfect, fresh fall of snow, we set off for the 30 minute drive half and hour before the lifts opened ... and avoided all the crush getting "up and over" by lift. Also had the car to mooch around après ski, and not have to rush back on last lift. But this was unplanned, so car was "cold".
Car was in garage, dash said 2.5C outside.
I had absolutely no Regen, so used friction brakes all the way down. That is far worse than a low gear in an ICE! On the way up the other side I realised I still had Range Mode on from the journey out, and turned that off, but I only had a small amount of regen by the time we got back up to the top. (Maybe Range Mode=Off would have given me some Regen sooner on descent?)
So basically on the way down left with 80% and got to the bottom with 80%
On the way up used 80% - 65% for 11.5 miles, and only got a bit of regen back by the destination. Battery Heater didn't come on, temperature was 0C in the valley and -5C at destination.
Parked in underground car park, and for the return I put the climate on (in the car, not APP - dunno if any difference) for 45 minutes whilst we wandered around the shops. That bought the battery heater on for 30 minutes and reduced SoC 64%-60% (stayed at 60% for the further 15 minutes whilst maintaining climate only). Outside temperature was 1.0C
Set off with about 2/3 regen, but as went down the mountain that reduced to about 1/3rd
Gained from 60% - 63% but some friction brakes required. Battery heater did not come on.For the journey home I charged for 1h45m before departure (battery heater came on, when I put Climate on, for 8 minutes during that). Climate on for total 50 minutes before departure (reduced SoC by 2% even though plugged in @ 10AMPs)
Set off with full regen - although if flashed on and off 2/3rds for a bit, and then stayed on at 2/3rds for the rest of the decent. Not sure what would be necessary to get 100% Regen for the whole of the descent??
Battery heater did not come on during the journey. Temperature was 5-6C for the first hour, then 10C for the rest of the day, and in the evening fell to 5C. Range Mode was off for the whole descent (need to remember to turn it back on for the journey, if you find it useful)
If you can be bothered, it might be worth selecting PARK momentarily at the bottom when changing from Decent to Ascent/Flat, so that TeslaFi records it as two drives (or maybe there is a way to SPLIT a drive) for separate Wh/Mile etc..
Good shout @Mr Miserable
3 x Tesla Chargers, one more than Tesla Website ... but that was the only one working! Plenty of faded-glory in evidence, but of course that is normal-for-France. (Trip adviser: "Some guests commented maintenance could be improved" ... no idea what they were expecting differently dans la France!!)
Restaurant was excellent (its got a Michelin whatsit). Pudding had the red love-heart decoration superglued to the plate in some crafty way such that it remained after thinking I had scraped every last bit into my bulging stomach. Not sure what the 3 suits at the table next to us were going to make of that, sadly we were gone before they got to that bit!
Car charged overnight at 72 AMP (presumably an M3 would not utilise all of that, but still plenty enough hours during the night of course)
I set the limit to 90%, and then increased it the following morning to 100% an hour before we left, and put on Climate 15 minutes before departure (6C outside)
vitesse
Active Member
Very interesting about no regen when doing a descent in the mountains. As a child my father saved our skin when abroad being driven by someone down a mountain in a huge Chevy Impala and the driver didn't use Low gear and basically overheated the brakes (my heroic father spotted this and forced the auto box into Low and we didn't crash). Of course Tesla brakes are *much better* than a 1970 Impala's but I'd be a little nervous without regen on a long descent. On the other hand, it was cold, so that probably helps.
Urvillers - me +1
Beaune - me
Léchère-les-Bains - Me +1
Mâcon - me
Châteauvillain Orges - me
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I have a similar, but not so serious problem here. From our house heading south I have a really steep climb for about 8 miles then a very very steep descent for the same distance. In winter, especially when there’s snow on the road (a frequent occurrence) the battery has not warmed up enough at the top to give me any sort of regen on the way down. Having lived in a Norway for many years where the golden rule was DON’T TOUCH THE BRAKES in snow I have a real hatred of my trip over the Cairn as I have to use the brakes. I love my car but this is the biggest problem I have with it.
stonecoldrmw
Member
vitesse
Active Member
I lifted the data from TeslaFi and, as you guessed, stuffed it into XLS.
I was also curious about the In/Out time, so looked at the raw data to get the point at which I turned off highway, until I was back on again, and the start/end of charging.
The old MS had a pretty flat charging rate (in %-per-5-minutes) up to 70%-ish, but the Raven looks like 60% (but charges faster at lower SoC). I need to do some sums to see what the additional time is for 60-70% (and 70-80%) to decide if worth staying, or leaving and arriving at next charger with lower SoC. The additional time-cost of In/Out is moot if you have to stop at the next location anyway, so higher charge is just some insurance against Paired / Slow charger stall at next stop (and Rain / Detour of course). In general there were not enough Supercharger locations to have a skip option (other than the ones I had deliberately planned to skip, mainly because sites with only 4 stalls - even "have a look and use if free" is a 6-7 minute detour off the Highway
)I'd much prefer to have 70% on departure each time (and have a shorter stop at next location) to be sure of Rain / Detour ... but I could do with some Maths to tell me it is so. We never did the Alps in the old MS, back then fewer Superchargers and one or two stops needed over 90% and I didn't think it was worthwhile. We were on our own this time, not sure about an MS if we were 4-up. Loads of luggage space, but people in back on long journeys say that inability to see out / past front seat headrest, makes them "uncomfortable". Our ICE people carrier suits us better for that job ... and we use it so rarely that I would regard an MX as a "ridiculous" purchase, and my habit of just-chucking-in-Cargo from eBay purchases
would be a bit fraughtIn UK pretty much all my out-of-range journeys are one Supercharge. That's easy, just set Energy Graph and wait until 20% arrival prediction (or less - season to personal taste
). This is the first time I have done drive-charge-drive-charge-... and all the Road Trip videos I watched of Bjorns were back in the days of his Millennium Falcon so my inner planning nerd! would definitely benefit from my own, newer, data.
