Trump pulls out of Paris climate deal

[Festerfeet]

There seems to be some confusion as to what the climate fund is when it was first proposed and its part in the Paris Accord. If you look at the history you may find that there was a reason why China did not commit to paying in immediately.

It was because it had already committed to pay 20b yuan into the South South Climate Cooperation fund. At the time (exchange rates have since moved a bit) this was worth 3.2b USD. It is widely known that the reason that Obama committed, what was it again ...oh yes, 3.2b USD to the climate fund prior to the Paris accord was to match China's previously announced payment.

So far China has released over 1.4b USD equivalent to this fund with an intention to release the rest in tranches between now and 2020.

There may be much to criticise the Chinese government about but they are convinced that they need to solve the pollution problem in China and will have to take an increasingly important role in helping with the world with climate change issues. They are not playing politics on this one though of course they will look to capitalise on it as the US government steps away.

 

[SlyWombat]

In this case you have to applaud Trump, his election platform was to pull out if elected, he was elected, so he is pulling out.

 

[thx1139]

Yes. I love our neighbors but we can't let the world make decisions on our behalf. I don't understand the motive for the open borders that democrats want. One world policy where we form our policies based on what everyone else in the world thinks makes sense or is fair.

WTF. This has nothing to do with borders. Yes I believe the world should strive to be as good to each other so that people could freely travel (we are decades maybe centuries from this), but this is about climate change and climate change doesnt give 2 @#$#s about borders. Agreeing to commit to improving the climate is not the world making decisions for us. We are agreeing to be a better global citizen, nothing more. It is basically saying yes we the government of the United States agree with the rest of the world that we all must work to combat climate change.

 

[McRat]

There seems to be some confusion as to what the climate fund is when it was first proposed and its part in the Paris Accord. If you look at the history you may find that there was a reason why China did not commit to paying in immediately.

It was because it had already committed to pay 20b yuan into the South South Climate Cooperation fund. At the time (exchange rates have since moved a bit) this was worth 3.2b USD. It is widely known that the reason that Obama committed, what was it again ...oh yes, 3.2b USD to the climate fund prior to the Paris accord was to match China's previously announced payment.

So far China has released over 1.4b USD equivalent to this fund with an intention to release the rest in tranches between now and 2020.

There may be much to criticise the Chinese government about but they are convinced that they need to solve the pollution problem in China and will have to take an increasingly important role in helping with the world with climate change issues. They are not playing politics on this one though of course they will look to capitalise on it as the US government steps away.

Is this is why they are trying to nationalize the South China sea for oil drilling even though other countries had earlier claims?

The Chinese government tells the Chinese people what it wants them to hear, and tells the world what it wants them to hear.

If you don't believe it, go to the public square with a banner and a soapbox and say things the government doesn't want you to say.

According to the Green Climate Fund (UN), there is a total of $2.2B spent, and $1B from the US. The UN says no Chinese money has been handed out yet.

 

[Max*]

I am among the sizable minority who, for a number of reasons, don't trust the computer models that claim to "prove" that humans are the primary cause of global warming. The glaciers in Alaska have been receding since before fossil fuel burning became so pervasive, after all. Nevertheless, I believe that human activity must be contributing to global warming and so I favor renewable power generation of all sorts, I drive electric, and will soon install PV.

Very well said. This x100.

 

[Festerfeet]

Is this is why they are trying to nationalize the South China sea for oil drilling even though other countries had earlier claims?

The Chinese government tells the Chinese people what it wants them to hear, and tells the world what it wants them to hear.

If you don't believe it, go to the public square with a banner and a soapbox and say things the government doesn't want you to say.

According to the Green Climate Fund (UN), there is a total of $2.2B spent, and $1B from the US. The UN says no Chinese money has been handed out yet.

The green climate fund was proposed in 2010 or 2009, I forget but came well before the structure of the Paris accord was agreed, it just too so long before progress was made on it that it got wrapped up in the accords,.

China was 'excused' making an initial contribution pledge to the fund as it had already made a pledge to the South-South Climate Cooperation Fund. At that stage it was by far the largest pledge for any overseas aid specifically aimed at dealing with the effects off climate change.

The South China Sea issue is a whole different *sugar* show and unrelated to China's climate change ambitions.

 

[kort677]

From the UK, my perspective is this:

The USA as the largest western democracy is a country we naturally look to for leadership, especially strategic leadership for decisions that affect the entire world's future.

So, the signing of the Paris accord is as much symbolic as anything, and the USA signing was undoubtedly key in getting almost every country of note on board with the agreement. It's termed inspiring others by strong leadership. Of just as much importance is that the Paris accord is almost certainly just the first baby step in what will be an ongoing process as further evidence of climate change is found.

Trump announcing departure from the Paris accord sends entirely the wrong signal to the rest of the world and appears to accelerate the diminishing of USA leadership and power.

With the ongoing rise of other major economic powers like China, and to a lesser extent India, together with Russia stamping it's feet and demanding attention, never mind the mess that is the Middle East, erosion of US global leadership is exactly what is not needed at this time.

As for Trump; well when the Mayor of London following the recent terrorist attack said quite justifiably:
"Londoners will see an increased police presence today and over the course of the next few days. There's no reason to be alarmed."

and Trump tweets:
At least 7 dead and 48 wounded in terror attack and Mayor of London says there is "no reason to be alarmed!"
as well as
“Do you notice we are not having a gun debate right now? That's because they used knives and a truck!”

With such political ineptitude never mind the inability to comprehend, then it is not hard to see why Trump elicits a mix of derision, despair and contempt over here and undoubtedly diminishes the US on the world stage.

here's another perspective from london

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=468599683485027

 

[slipnslider]

Not all Americans support the Paris Agreement. It's popular to be anti-Trump and feel guilty as an American. Many of us are pro-America and do not want Europe dictating what we do. We know Paris to be an unfair agreement in many ways. That doesn't mean we're against the environment. It just means we're not going to be guilted into paying India and China trillions in taxpayer money for an agreement with questionable returns (0.3F in 100 years).

Only those who believe in socialism, wealth distribution, the media, or American guilt, want this. Ask most Americans for details about the Paris Agreement, or how much it costs tax payers, and they won't know or care - since they're not paying into it anyway. Typical liberal attitude, is to pledge other people's money for causes only they believe in, then riot and cry about it when the general public disagrees with their sense of moral self-righteousness.

Like I said, those of you upset by America not being in the agreement - do your part. Please donate 5% of your NET WORTH to India or China to keep polluting, and pat yourself on the back. If you aren't willing to do this, you're a hypocrite. Please don't post anything anti-American unless you put your money where your mouth is. As for me, I don't agree with the Paris agreement I'm keeping my money in America.

Its funny how conservatives are always the ones complaining about freeloaders and moochers, yet in the climate debate, they want the USA to be the freeloader.

The USA SHOULD pay more to fix climate change because we CAUSED more of it. We have the highest carbon footprint per capita in the world and our economic health was built on free pollution.

All these conservatives who always preach "personal accountability" are suddenly terrified of being held accountable for the mess we made. They want future generations to pay the remainder of the cost for our discounted fossil fuels. They are the new welfare queens, mooching off of people who aren't even born yet.

 

[kort677]

Its funny how conservatives are always the ones complaining about freeloaders and moochers, yet in the climate debate, they want the USA to be the freeloader.

The USA SHOULD pay more to fix climate change because we CAUSED more of it. We have the highest carbon footprint per capita in the world and our economic health was built on free pollution.

All these conservatives who always preach "personal accountability" are suddenly terrified of being held accountable for the mess we made. They want future generations to pay the remainder of the cost for our discounted fossil fuels. They are the new welfare queens, mooching off of people who aren't even born yet.

what a load of poorly sourced misinformation and typical insulting generalizations.

 

[slipnslider]

No, it's not a diminishing of USA leadership or power, it is a change of priorities. No longer are we going to cater to the rest of the world and political correctness. We are here to stay number one not turn into Europe, a total disaster.

The mayor of London is clueless about what is going on in his own city. I have lost count of how many terrorist attacks have occurred in London and Europe in the past year. No thanks to your socialist policies and terrorist embedded cities.

Most Americans finally see the truth about what is going on which is why Trump is in power. Enough is enough. Don't let the media fool you.

The reason trump needs his supporters to hate the media is because he needs you to not believe it when you hear about the things he does. Same tactic as every tyrant, authoritarian, and warlord in modern history. If trump supporters knew history, maybe they wouldn't be so gullible.

What is more plausible - every media outlet on earth except fox is secretly conspiring to lie to you and no one has leaked about the conspiracy, or that trump and fox are lying to you?

Think hard now.

 

[slipnslider]

what a load of poorly sourced misinformation and typical insulting generalizations.

You voted for the king of "poorly sourced misinformation and typical insulting generalizations".

Your buffoon quotes from the national enquirer.

 

[kort677]

Think hard now.

great advice, please heed it

 

[slipnslider]

Why should I care what citizens of other countries have pledged? They are socialist nations, at least right now we are not. You may want us to become a socialist nation, I do not know. That's certainly not what I want.

If you don't want a socialist nation, maybe you should move to somalia.
Enjoy poisonous food, polluted air, uneducated citizens.
And start paying a fee every time you walk down the sidewalk or flush the toilet or call the cops.

The fact of the matter is unless you're willing to accept all of that, you're a socialist too. You just only want the government to pay for things YOU approve of.

 

[slipnslider]

If Trump is such an idiot

IF? How much more proof do you need?

Have you ever listened to him try and stick to a topic and rationally debate or explain his point of view?
He's either an idiot with the worst case of ADD I've ever seen, or he's doing an incredible imitation of one.

 

[kort677]

You voted for the king of "poorly sourced misinformation and typical insulting generalizations".

Your buffoon quotes from the national enquirer.

please highlight any quote that I offered that was taken from the national enquirer.
you are following a typical pattern of liberalism supporters, the more facts that are presented to you the more unhinged you become.

 

[slipnslider]

Yes. I love our neighbors but we can't let the world make decisions on our behalf. I don't understand the motive for the open borders that democrats want. One world policy where we form our policies based on what everyone else in the world thinks makes sense or is fair.

Then I'm sure you can provide a link to a real news site (not breitbart or infowars) proving democrats want open borders. Otherwise it sounds like you're accepting propaganda from the most famous liar in the world.

If your neighbor is dumping oil on his lawn, killing his grass, and that oil starts to seep over into YOUR lawn and kill YOUR grass, would you be ok with it? Environmental issues dont stop at national borders. Pollution doesnt recognize state or national boundaries. Otherwise we could just let all the stupid red states pollute themselves into oblivion.

 

[slipnslider]

please highlight any quote that I offered that was taken from the national enquirer.
you are following a typical pattern of liberalism supporters, the more facts that are presented to you the more unhinged you become.

I didn't say YOU quoted from the national enquirer. I said the leader you support does.

You're as bad at reading as you are at picking leaders.

 

[kort677]

I didn't say YOU quoted from the national enquirer. I said the leader you support does.

You're as bad at reading as you are at picking leaders.

let the ad hominem continue.

 

[kort677]

this should make some heads explode

 

[slipnslider]

this should make some heads explode

The fact that you even think that's what the paris deal did simply means you are accepting trump's lies about it, instead of listening to the experts who understand the deal. What do you call someone who trusts the worlds most famous liar? Chump? Sucker? Moron? Take your pick.
Trump is certainly a leader though. Leading the USA into new dark ages. I've never seen anyone inspire such loyalty among morons.