Ugh the Tesla Tax is still a thing??

[ATPMSD]

currently the code just says something about GFCI breakers being required for outlets installed for the purpose of charging EVs

Actually it is required for all outlets in a garage and on the exterior of houses. So I guess they heard you!

210.8(A) GFCI Protection for Personnel Dwelling Units…”Bathrooms, Garages and Accessory Buildings, Outdoors, Crawl Spaces, Basements, Kitchens, Sinks, Boathouses, Bathtubs and Shower Stalls, Laundry Areas, Indoor Damp and Wet Locations.”

 

[STS-134]

Actually it is required for all outlets in a garage and on the exterior of houses. So I guess they heard you!

What part of the code says that? That's not my understanding. And why are people talking about electricians not installing GFCI breakers on outlets used for electric kilns?

 

[ATPMSD]

What part of the code says that? That's not my understanding. And why are people talking about electricians not installing GFCI breakers on outlets used for electric kilns?

Too fast for me, I edited my response. If an appliance is hardwired a GFCI breaker is not required. So if this applies to electric kilns, that is the reason. If they plug in, and they are in a personnel dwelling, then one is required. However, if the outlet was installed when the house was built then it does not need to be upgraded.

Please note I am not an electrican. These topics have been discussed in these forums a lot, however.

 

[STS-134]

Too fast for me, I edited my response. If an appliance is hardwired a GFCI breaker is not required. So if this applies to electric kilns, that is the reason. If they plug in, and they are in a personnel dwelling, then one is required. However, if the outlet was installed when the house was built then it does not need to be upgraded.

Please note I am not an electrican. These topics have been discussed in these forums a lot, however.

Here is what I am talking about:

625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. All single-phase receptacles installed for the connection of electric vehicle charging that are rated 150 volts to ground or less, and 50 amperes or less shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

So by that, a 14-50 installed for the purpose of connecting to an EVSE would require a GFCI. A 14-50 installed for the purpose of connecting to welding equipment or to an RV would not. And it's perfectly fine to later change your mind and decide to use that same outlet to charge EVs, and the code doesn't require you to update the breaker.

 

[ATPMSD]

@STS-134 that is an old reference. The EV requirement first appeared in 2017 but the GFCI requirement was expanded in 2019, I believe. In any case, the reference I provided is the 2020 version and it is the current rule. GFCI breakers are required.

 

[GrittyWskyCity]

This is the outlet that was installed. I appreciate the information regarding this. If it needs to be changed I’ll get on it asap.

 

[GrittyWskyCity]

This is the outlet that was installed. I appreciate the information regarding this. If it needs to be changed I’ll get on it asap.

 

[RayK]

I believe most outlet manufacturers have an imprinted name/logo on the (edit: face of the) socket. I see nothing on yours but then again the photos aren't as sharp as they could be.

 

[SageBrush]

This is the outlet that was installed.

What in the world !??
"Receptacle in the hole !!"

I'm looking forward to the other photos.

 

[RayK]

No, actually we're trying to help you. Short-cutting a high amperage outlet can lead to bad things. Like your house burning down (absolute worst case) or a problematic charging experience due to the socket failing.

 

[SageBrush]

why would I post more pictures for you to flame me

To learn what you got for $100. The laughter is my payment.

You will hopefully learn soon enough that there is no free lunch

 

[ThomasD]

When I had a 50 amp outlet installed in my garage they had to trench just over 50 feet from the electrical box on the electric pole to the garage. Had to upgrade the electrical box in the garage to support the loads I wanted. Cost more than 500 dollars. 200 to 500 doesn't seem too bad for a professional job with permits being pulled

 

[GrittyWskyCity]

No, actually we're trying to help you. Short-cutting a high amperage outlet can lead to bad things. Like your house burning down (absolute worst case) or a problematic charging experience due to the socket failing.

Absolutely, you are and have been helpful. I’ll get a new one installed.

Edit: I have a pass & Seymour

 

[Allx]

I pinged a few electricians to install a 14-50 a foot away from a load center at my MIL’s house. We just want to be able to get some mobile charging when visiting there.

First one asks - what EV is it? I said it doesn’t matter right? Just a 14-50 with #6. But he said he wouldn’t quote it unless he knew the car so I said Tesla. $500.

Second one asks - what EV is it? I said it doesn’t matter right? Just a 14-50 with #6. But he said he wouldn’t quote it unless he knew the car so I said Nissan. $250.

Sigh.

Good to know . I’ll be telling them I’m installing a dryer.

 

[SageBrush]

Good to know . I’ll be telling them I’m installing a dryer.

If you do that you will likely get a 30 Amp receptacle, good for 24 Amp EV charging. And depending where the receptacle is located, you may not get the GFI an EV requires. NEC requires all receptacles in a garage to be GFI protected, but it is still a common error to not do so. It is just about a sure thing to be done wrong for the $100 crowd since the correct breaker costs $150 - $200 all by itself

 

[STS-134]

@STS-134 that is an old reference. The EV requirement first appeared in 2017 but the GFCI requirement was expanded in 2019, I believe. In any case, the reference I provided is the 2020 version and it is the current rule. GFCI breakers are required.

The text has not changed in the 2023 edition. I just checked.

 

[STS-134]

Good to know . I’ll be telling them I’m installing a dryer.

Dryer outlets are only 30A, and can provide a maximum of 24A of continuous current. That's not what you want.

 

[RayK]

Absolutely, you are and have been helpful. I’ll get a new one installed.

Edit: I have a pass & Seymour

Apparently Pass & Seymour is a step above the residential Leviton one. Maybe not as good as Bryant or Hubbell which people around here hold in good regard. I'd keep using the P&S but keep an eye out for overheating or scorch marks. If seen, then replace with something of better quality. If you are using a Tesla mobile connector with that outlet, it will only draw 32A max. so you have some overhead. If you have a standard non-GFCI breaker be aware that there's an increased danger of shocks. Not saying you WILL get shocked; just you will have a lower protection from getting really zapped. Having a GFCI breaker is safer but can have the effect of nuisance trips, interrupting your charging session.

 

[STS-134]

Absolutely, you are and have been helpful. I’ll get a new one installed.

Edit: I have a pass & Seymour

Does it have partial length contacts or full length contacts? NEMA 14-50 outlet installed

The Leviton outlet has trouble because it only has partial length contacts and the connectors on the back are crappy as well.

 

[mrbulk]

tl;dr:

sorry, but in our past three homes we just had a 220v NEMA 14/50 receptacle installed, $250 here in Vegas and they ran the line (about 4' away from breaker box) in-wall so you do not see anything except the outlet. Really nice job by Bell Solar & Electric.
Our Tesla wall charger was outfitted with a NEMA 14/50 plug long ago so we just brought it from house to house..