Ultrasonic sensors gone from Model X too - should I cancel my order?

[sunbear]

Suddenly this week I was assigned a VIN and a Mid December delivery window for a LR MX with FSD I ordered in June 2021. The previous Friday the window had been showing as end of Jan to end of March.

I exchanged text messages with the tesla representative to confirm what capabilities my car would be delivered with and he told me that there will be no ultrasonic sensors.

Should I cancel? If I reorder, current prices are $9k higher.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Are they planning to have the US sensors in future cars? What good would canceling do unless you now want to buy used?

 

[pcswoo]

Just for DP, I recieved my X on last Friday, anf looks like it has USS. I can see ft distance number during park.

 

[sunbear]

There would be several potential benefits in canceling:
1) Tesla does not have a good reputation for delivering features in a complete and timely manner. If it takes years for Tesla Vision to reach feature parity with Ultrasonic equipped 2022 models then I will not have to live without these important features in the interim. During an extended period without ultrasonics there's a high probability of damaging the the car and tesla would not compensate for such avoidable damage of course. I can instead wait until either
A) Tesla fully implements tesla vision, or
B) Tesla gives up on tesla vision and returns back to ultrasonics, or
C) My RIVIAN R1S gets delivered in 2024
2) Get additional features that are not available yet such as:
A) Hardware 4.0 (better FSD, better cameras)
B) Matrix headlights
C) 4680 batteries
3) There may be many people doing the same calculus that I am doing and deciding that they don't want worse features for the same price. Delivery backlog seems to be shrinking precipitously (my X was originally due Feb-Apr 2023). The reduced customer demand may force tesla to start cutting prices or adding features or both

 

[HankLloydRight]

There would be several potential benefits in canceling:
1) Tesla does not have a good reputation for delivering features in a complete and timely manner. If it takes years for Tesla Vision to reach feature parity with Ultrasonic equipped 2022 models then I will not have to live without these important features in the interim. During an extended period without ultrasonics there's a high probability of damaging the the car and tesla would not compensate for such avoidable damage of course. I can instead wait until either
A) Tesla fully implements tesla vision, or
B) Tesla gives up on tesla vision and returns back to ultrasonics, or
C) My RIVIAN R1S gets delivered in 2024
2) Get additional features that are not available yet such as:
A) Hardware 4.0 (better FSD, better cameras)
B) Matrix headlights
C) 4680 batteries
3) There may be many people doing the same calculus that I am doing and deciding that they don't want worse features for the same price. Delivery backlog seems to be shrinking precipitously (my X was originally due Feb-Apr 2023). The reduced customer demand may force tesla to start cutting prices or adding features or both

That's all fine and good, but you actually said:

Should I cancel? If I reorder, current prices are $9k higher.

If you cancel and immediately re-order at "current prices", what good is that? Do you think ANY of the things in your list would happen?

You did not say "cancel and walk away" as an option.

You said "cancel and re-order".

There's a big difference between the two.

 

[VT_EE]

I had the same reaction you are having when I heard my new Model 3 would not come with USS. After thinking about the issue for a while, I came to conclusion USS didn't matter in the long run. Unlike my lack of confidence in FSD being useful using HW3, it is not unreasonable to assume Tesla can make an equivalent detection system using the cameras. USS don't even work for things like skinny poles so I already don't trust them. If I were in your shoes, I would not cancel my order solely because of missing USS. One benefit: the bumpers look a lot cleaner without the USS holes.

I am a little surprised Tesla is already removing USS from the X. I had assumed it would happen much later in 2023.

 

[sunbear]

If you cancel and immediately re-order at "current prices", what good is that? Do you think ANY of the things in your list would happen?

I never said that I would cancel and immediately re-order. What I said was that I would wait until the distance measurement feature (and possibly additional other features like HW4) was introduced before re-ordering. This way I would know that the Tesla they deliver to me is capable of distance measurement and hopefully they don't introduce any other de-featuring during the window of my next order.

Also there is nothing inconsistent about saying that prices TODAY are $9000 higher than they were back in June 2021 and that they may be lower in the future. Tesla recently had to cut prices in China due to falling demand and increased competition:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/24/business/tesla-china-price-cut.html

 

[VT_EE]

I never said that I would cancel and immediately re-order. What I said was that I would wait until the distance measurement feature (and possibly additional other features like HW4) was introduced before re-ordering. This way I would know that the Tesla they deliver to me is capable of distance measurement and hopefully they don't introduce any other de-featuring during the window of my next order.

Also there is nothing inconsistent about saying that prices TODAY are $9000 higher than they were back in June 2021 and that they may be lower in the future. Tesla recently had to cut prices in China due to falling demand and increased competition:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/24/business/tesla-china-price-cut.html

I would certainly expect prices to fall again from the insane heights they are at now. If you don't need the car, it's probably wise to wait a year or so. If you were considering FSD, you absolutely want to wait for HW4. If you don't want FSD, then HW3 is fine and should definitely be sufficient for replacing USS functionality.

 

[sunbear]

I would certainly expect prices to fall again from the insane heights they are at now. If you don't need the car, it's probably wise to wait a year or so. If you were considering FSD, you absolutely want to wait for HW4. If you don't want FSD, then HW3 is fine and should definitely be sufficient for replacing USS functionality.

My current order has FSD, my current MY has FSD and I want my MX to have FSD. Like you, I have doubts that HW3 will ever be capable of level 4+ despite Elon's optimism over the last 9 years:

Elon Musk Promises Full Self-Driving 'Next Year' For The Ninth Year In A Row

When he gets to 10, all Teslas will magically come to life and make sweet, sweet love to everyone who believed in them all along

jalopnik.com

This section of the Tesla purchase agreement is particularly concerning. If HW3 cars require new hardware to achieve the fully robotaxi capabilities promised by Elon then tesla has no obligation to retrofit existing cars even if they have paid for FSD.

Obsolete Hardware and Future Firmware Updates. The Vehicle will regularly receive over-the-air software updates that add new features and enhance existing ones over Wi-Fi. Future software updates may not be provided for your Vehicle, or may not include all existing or new features or functionality, due to your Vehicle’s age, configuration, data storage capacity or parts, after the expiration of your Warranty. We are not liable for any parts or labor or any other cost needed to update or retrofit the Vehicle so that it may receive these updates, or any Vehicle issues occurring after the installation of any software updates due to obsolete, malfunctioning (except as covered by your Warranty) or damaged hardware.

The way this is written, say there's a future scenario where Tesla eventually realizes that they cannot implement a Tesla Vision solution that has feature parity with the former ultrasonic based solution, they may introduce additional sensors (cameras directly on the front and rear bumpers, high resolution radar, or even revert back to ultrasonic sensors) into newly built cars, but people with cars built right now will be S.O.L.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I never said that I would cancel and immediately re-order.

It was certainly implied with the "current prices" comment.

What I said was that I would wait until the distance measurement feature (and possibly additional other features like HW4) was introduced before re-ordering. This way I would know that the Tesla they deliver to me is capable of distance measurement and hopefully they don't introduce any other de-featuring during the window of my next order.

You didn't say any of this in your first post, which is what I responded to.

If you have no intention of re-ordering and have all these long-term concerns, then why are you even here? Sounds like you already made up your mind.

 

[GWord]

Is the current parking sensor system the only reason you are buying a Tesla? If not, cancelling because of a potential change in methodology seems like a strange hill to die on.

 

[Mister Rafiki]

I am ready to order to replace my 2019 model X
.... Only thing that holds me back is lack of radar and sensors. Now looking at alternatives..really disappointed.

.... and the lack of stalks.. how am I supposed to signal when exiting the roundabouts ( we have a lot over here).

so for me no sensors , no radar, no stalks ...= no sale....pity.

 

[PamelaMC]

I am picking up my 2023 Model X tomorrow in Vancouver, Canada and my sales person says it does have USS. I think it might depend on where it was manufactured so perhaps you could check before ordering? This is a big relief as I rely on the sensors when parking in tight spots and I wouldn’t want to have nothing while I wait for the update that will use the cameras. I also had the delivery date moved up rapidly from Dec - March until last week when they gave me Dec 27 or Dec 28 as options. Good thing I am not out of town!

 

[croman]

I am picking up my 2023 Model X tomorrow in Vancouver, Canada and my sales person says it does have USS. I think it might depend on where it was manufactured so perhaps you could check before ordering? This is a big relief as I rely on the sensors when parking in tight spots and I wouldn’t want to have nothing while I wait for the update that will use the cameras. I also had the delivery date moved up rapidly from Dec - March until last week when they gave me Dec 27 or Dec 28 as options. Good thing I am not out of town!

USS are way more sensitive than my 2016. Almost useless in that wind or rain triggers it while driving. Parking it still useful, especially since I no longer pay for the autopark software. That being said, the sensors are likely going to be wholesale replaced in 2023/24 with higher rez cameras made by Samsung (contract has been inked) and "high resolution" radar which is supposed to come alongside the new cameras (HW4).

 

[MikeKFE]

Picked up a MXP tonight with a mid-Dec build date. Still has USS for those of you curious.

 

[AAARSINIC]

379xxx last night still has them as well.

 

[PamelaMC]

USS are way more sensitive than my 2016. Almost useless in that wind or rain triggers it while driving. Parking it still useful, especially since I no longer pay for the autopark software. That being said, the sensors are likely going to be wholesale replaced in 2023/24 with higher rez cameras made by Samsung (contract has been inked) and "high resolution" radar which is supposed to come alongside the new cameras (HW4).

I have the new Samsung cameras so best of both worlds (for me)!

 

[jboy210]

I have the new Samsung cameras so best of both worlds (for me)!

What do the images look like with the new cameras?

 

[MikeKFE]

How do you tell which camera the car has

 

[PamelaMC]

I asked at pick-up a few days ago and the SA checked and said new Samsung cameras, but it is my first tesla so no frame of reference and not 100% sure after digging around a bit online.

The lens is supposed to be bigger:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TeslaLounge/comments/ybkpxx

Pic of my camera is below. Images are very clear, but again no point of reference.