Hugh Mannity
Mediocre Member
I recall seeing a program about a big ass lithium deposit(s) in Bolivia that will produce for decades. Pretty sure Tesla is good 
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Un-Noticed but Most important - Lithium.
- Thread starter Garlan Garner
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- Model 3
Nozferat
Member
Does anyone know or realize how much of an environmental impact this is going to have to mine and process this much lithium and from where?
Here is information on where Lithium comes from and how it's recovered.
Lithium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You can bet none of this is planet friendly. I'm all for EVs and drive one myself...but this trigger-cheerleading many here seem to have just because it's a Tesla and somehow it's immune to the same laws of physics and environmental issues is ridiculous. We need to be aware of these issues before we swallow the Koolaid of any automaker that claims they are doing the world a favour.
Here is information on where Lithium comes from and how it's recovered.
Lithium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
You can bet none of this is planet friendly. I'm all for EVs and drive one myself...but this trigger-cheerleading many here seem to have just because it's a Tesla and somehow it's immune to the same laws of physics and environmental issues is ridiculous. We need to be aware of these issues before we swallow the Koolaid of any automaker that claims they are doing the world a favour.
Yes, you most definitely can and that will kill them. What were the individual cell voltages of your Hoverboard? That would give us a better insight into your theory.
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This has been answered extensively on this forum and others. Lithium Batteries can be recycled very easily and do not contain mercury like other chemistries. This thread does seem to attract some misinformation about Lithium.
Nozferat
Member
Ah, the age-old argument that because EVs are not 100% green, that they are completely worthless.
Nevermind the fact that they're substantially greener than gas cars--because they're not perfect, let's completely dump EVs and stick with gas cars!
I think you're forgetting that while transitioning, EVs are better than no EVs.
Mining equipment will eventually be 100% electric powered fully by renewable energy.
Nozferat
Member
I know EVs are far greener but you're making it sound like they won't have any environmental impact. You seem to forget that the number of EVs sold does not even register on any scale compared to ICEs.
There are huge obstacles to overcome even in this transition...it's not enough to just think you changing over to EVs is going to miraculously save the world. "Eventually" can mean a lot of things. I'm sure aircraft will eventually be all-electric too. Until then what do we do?
EcoHeliGuy
Member
So mining once for the Battery some how equates to non-stop mining for the life of a fossil fueled vehicle?
You know that 1+1=2 right?
There are lots of aspects of car production that aren't very friendly environmentally. One of the most obvious is the Aluminum that's the core of the Teslas and ~10% of the total car weight - in addition to all the effort and energy involved in mining, you have to separate the aluminum out of the ore with gobs of electricity.
However, everything I've read suggests the Lithium isn't really an issue here. Most of it comes from brine pools where water is evaporating away to concentrate it - just like the seawater is evaporating away over 78% of the planet's surface. Some of that brine is naturally occurring, some of it comes from Geothermal plants - the Lithium is practically a byproduct of going to geothermal power production.
The Cobalt Tesla has used in recent battery formulations (and still is, as far as I know?) would also be a better target for your angst. However, both are recyclable, and both are far less destructive than the alternatives we're generally pursuing now.
Walter
This thread is like we've lost a whole decade. It's like everyone needs personal attention to convince them of things they could confirm for themselves with 10th grade math and some googling.
dhrivnak
Active Member
Here is the best analysis of Lithium I have ever read. http://seekingalpha.com/article/654441-ev-myths-and-realities-part-1-the-battery-crisis?page=2
Bottom line no real concern until we have 1.5 billion EV's. And at this stage lithium production is quite good environmentally. It is pumped from relatively shallow underground lakes and then concentrated in solar pounds. Far better than fracking or tar sands.
Bottom line no real concern until we have 1.5 billion EV's. And at this stage lithium production is quite good environmentally. It is pumped from relatively shallow underground lakes and then concentrated in solar pounds. Far better than fracking or tar sands.
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Pretty much none. Lithium is mined in deserts (since all you need a salty lake) where the damage is usually minimal. It's about as environmentally friendly as you can get. Mining doesn't even require a lot of electricity, plain old solar evaporation is used to concentrate the brine.
Nozferat
Member
Meaning, you don't have to keep filling up a battery with lithium over the lifetime of the car, the way you continually need to fill a combustion car with gas.
You have to keep getting oil out of the ground. No one buys used oil. Once lithium is in a battery (all ~20lbs or so for the Model 3 battery) it's easy to use again. There is a practical limit to the amount of lithium ever needed to be mined to power all sectors on earth, there is no limit for oil.
JPP
Active Member
3 years ago, Elon spoke at the first TMC Connect (originally known as Teslive). He was asked the same question about Lithium. His answer was:
It is the salt in the salad.
Very small quantity. But of course TM and the Gigafactory are going to be making a whole lotta salad in years to come....
It is the salt in the salad.
Very small quantity. But of course TM and the Gigafactory are going to be making a whole lotta salad in years to come....
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